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BibleGuy · 10-19-2009, 01:30 PM

Wow! Lotta good discussion in here.

Forgive me if this is long. I'd like to comment on several posts all at once - hope that's ok with you all.

What's wrong with the quotes buttons? They're not working for me.

Mydriasis:
"If you think Christianity has not one good message to take to heart then I don't want to know what your beliefs are.
No I am not Christian but you cannot deny a persons faith unless it causes harm to society as a whole(imo)... "

Right on. ALL people must have the right to believe whatever they choose. If we apply "Love your neighbor as yourself" to faith: I expect my right/freedom to my faith then I must respect my neighbor's right to his, even if it seems to conflict with mine. Otherwise I'm just a self-righteous hypocrite. If he chooses blind faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster that his business, not mine. I can share if my neighbor wants to listen, but I must respect his freedom as my own.

hijabihippie:
"In Cambodia, cannabis is used to season chicken soup."

That must be some kinda delicious soup!

Jcp:
"I am never in favor of questioning the worth of a belief system, as everything we think is a "shot in the dark." I personally think Christianity is the transmorphic represenation of the 'pagan' religious tradition of celestial worship through personifying the Sun (son) and integrating a moral code for the furtherance of a collective culture, but then again Jesus might have been chillin the fuck out in Galilee healin lepers and walking on water!"

Very interesting, JcP, especially your use of the word 'celestial'. The Greek words translated "Heavenly Father" (Jesus' father) are ouranios pater which translate more properly as "Celestial Father", celestial meaning of or above the sky. That really struck me when I learned that as the Native Americans call the Creator "Father Sky", among other names.

Regarding personification of the Sun. I think you hit on something. Metaphorically speaking, I think the Sun would be the Father, while Jesus (the Son) would be two celestial bodies:

1 - The Moon, which reflects the light of the Sun upon a dark world.
"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19) - a reflection of the Father.

2 - Venus, the Morning Star, which "bears" the light of the Sun at dawn.
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelation 22:16) And dig this: Do you know what symbol the Morning Star plots over it's synodic cycles? Better sit down... a pentagram, rejected by modern Christians as the symbol of Satan (I think because we're not allowed to have anything in common with "pagans" who understand this symbol). Sadly, most believe what they're told by religious experts rather than looking for themselves.

There are and have been people all over the world who worship/revere both Venus and/or the Moon. Personally, I think it makes sense to look past the "thing" (Sun, Moon, Venus...) to find the essense that it represents.

KiLLeRrrr:
(Re: Brahman) "Can you elaborate on that more? what is the transcendent reality which is the divine ground?"

Brahman. Foundational Truth. The essense of all that exists. The source of Creation. I don't know how to explain it any better than that as I'm not a Hindu. I've read just enough to convince me that this Hindu name refers to the I AM of the Bible, or perhaps the other way around. I AM... Brahman... Cosmic Consciousness... Quantum of Consciousness... Dharma... Great Spirit... etc. all pointing to the Trancendent Reality that is our Creator. I think what our friend SageTree said here is good.

Re: Being aware of "God"
"we are giant, hairless, and far more intelligent species of monkeys, today."

True only if you believe in the theory of evolution. Maybe "God" started with an amoeba and then created upgraded, more advanced beings, in succession culminating in Humans. ?

Re: Gold and incense
"seriously though you are quite intelligent about this. what do you believe this 'gold' is? it must be an incense!"

Thanks for your kindness. This is the key; the reason why I came to this forum, and in particular this thread: Spiritual Smoke; Cannabis; the Old Testament altar incense and essense of the Holy Anointing Oil.

"our senses are real to us as individuals, so what we can all observe, IS real. what belief or faith does that require? that's fact. not a sense."

I don't think anyone would argue it isn't real, it's just that the observable is by no means the limit to what is real. Several traditions teach the principle "as above, so below", that is, that this physical "reality" is a reflection or manifestation of things taking form in the spiritual/metaphysical realm.

"Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:18-19)

I take this to mean that what takes place in heaven is reflected/manifested here on Earth.

"because science PROVES it wrong. a man believing the Earth was created in seven days is wrong."

That's an English translation problem in the Bible. (actually its six days + one day of rest). The "days" specified in Genesis is the word yom which does mean a day, but is is also used figuratively as "a space of time defined by an associated term". It can mean an "age" or "season" as well as a "day". If science proves (my numbers are for example only) that the Universe was created in 6 billion years, then one "day" (yom) of creation in Genesis would be a space of time lasting 1 billion years.

SageTree:
"In some culture's 'science' there is a level on which people's way of knowing is based on things western science can't figure out. Like abilities to know which plants to use for certain problems and other unexplained things that seem odd to those who don't process that level of experiencing. 6 senses are odd to these people."

Bingo! There a verse in 1Corinthians about this:
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1Co 2:14)

"Natural" man means sensitive, that is, animate, as distinguishing the non-carnal/ethereal nature from the lower/bestial nature of the senses. Strict adherence to science is observation via the senses, believing only in what is observable and quantifiable. This is the limited discernment of "the natural man" in this verse.

Mydriasis:
"Shiva was all bluee! and loves the weed too."

He has a nice drum too! Interesting how weed and drum circles go together. I love drum circles.

SageTree:
"somas what's up"

What a wonderful word: Soma!

"And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." (Luke 22:19)

Anyone wanna take a wild guess what the word translated "body" is? Yep: Soma. In Greek it means the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively. What he is literally referring to is the bread, artos in Greek, meaning bread (as raised) or a loaf. This is from airo, meaning to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism to expiate sin. One might say this is simply bread raised with yeast. But compare the whole definition to Vedic/Sanskrit Soma or Avestan Haoma. Is it just a weird weird weird coincidence that the word for "Body" happens to be Soma in the Greek scriptures. I don't think it is.

/long post

Thoughts anyone?

Namaste.

10-19-2009, 01:30 PM	#58 (permalink)
BibleGuy YaHookan Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 329 Thanks: 137 Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts	Wow! Lotta good discussion in here. Forgive me if this is long. I'd like to comment on several posts all at once - hope that's ok with you all. What's wrong with the quotes buttons? They're not working for me. Mydriasis: "If you think Christianity has not one good message to take to heart then I don't want to know what your beliefs are. No I am not Christian but you cannot deny a persons faith unless it causes harm to society as a whole(imo)... " Right on. ALL people must have the right to believe whatever they choose. If we apply "Love your neighbor as yourself" to faith: I expect my right/freedom to my faith then I must respect my neighbor's right to his, even if it seems to conflict with mine. Otherwise I'm just a self-righteous hypocrite. If he chooses blind faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster that his business, not mine. I can share if my neighbor wants to listen, but I must respect his freedom as my own. hijabihippie: "In Cambodia, cannabis is used to season chicken soup." That must be some kinda delicious soup! Jcp: "I am never in favor of questioning the worth of a belief system, as everything we think is a "shot in the dark." I personally think Christianity is the transmorphic represenation of the 'pagan' religious tradition of celestial worship through personifying the Sun (son) and integrating a moral code for the furtherance of a collective culture, but then again Jesus might have been chillin the fuck out in Galilee healin lepers and walking on water!" Very interesting, JcP, especially your use of the word 'celestial'. The Greek words translated "Heavenly Father" (Jesus' father) are ouranios pater which translate more properly as "Celestial Father", celestial meaning of or above the sky. That really struck me when I learned that as the Native Americans call the Creator "Father Sky", among other names. Regarding personification of the Sun. I think you hit on something. Metaphorically speaking, I think the Sun would be the Father, while Jesus (the Son) would be two celestial bodies: 1 - The Moon, which reflects the light of the Sun upon a dark world. "Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19) - a reflection of the Father. 2 - Venus, the Morning Star, which "bears" the light of the Sun at dawn. "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am* the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."* (Revelation 22:16) And dig this: Do you know what symbol the Morning Star plots over it's synodic cycles? Better sit down... a pentagram, rejected by modern Christians as the symbol of Satan (I think because we're not allowed to have anything in common with "pagans" who understand this symbol). Sadly, most believe what they're told by religious experts rather than looking for themselves. There are and have been people all over the world who worship/revere both Venus and/or the Moon. Personally, I think it makes sense to look past the "thing" (Sun, Moon, Venus...) to find the essense that it represents. KiLLeRrrr: (Re: Brahman) "Can you elaborate on that more? what is the transcendent reality which is the divine ground?" Brahman. Foundational Truth. The essense of all that exists. The source of Creation. I don't know how to explain it any better than that as I'm not a Hindu. I've read just enough to convince me that this Hindu name refers to the I AM of the Bible, or perhaps the other way around. I AM... Brahman... Cosmic Consciousness... Quantum of Consciousness... Dharma... Great Spirit... etc. all pointing to the Trancendent Reality that is our Creator. I think what our friend SageTree said here is good. Re: Being aware of "God" "we are giant, hairless, and far more intelligent species of monkeys, today." True only if you believe in the theory of evolution. Maybe "God" started with an amoeba and then created upgraded, more advanced beings, in succession culminating in Humans. ? Re: Gold and incense "seriously though you are quite intelligent about this. what do you believe this 'gold' is? it must be an incense!" Thanks for your kindness. This is the key; the reason why I came to this forum, and in particular this thread: Spiritual Smoke; Cannabis; the Old Testament altar incense and essense of the Holy Anointing Oil. "our senses are real to us as individuals, so what we can all observe, IS real. what belief or faith does that require? that's fact. not a sense." I don't think anyone would argue it isn't real, it's just that the observable is by no means the limit to what is real. Several traditions teach the principle "as above, so below", that is, that this physical "reality" is a reflection or manifestation of things taking form in the spiritual/metaphysical realm. "Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:18-19) I take this to mean that what takes place in heaven is reflected/manifested here on Earth. "because science PROVES it wrong. a man believing the Earth was created in seven days is wrong." That's an English translation problem in the Bible. (actually its six days + one day of rest). The "days" specified in Genesis is the word yom which does mean a day, but is is also used figuratively as "a space of time defined by an associated term". It can mean an "age" or "season" as well as a "day". If science proves (my numbers are for example only) that the Universe was created in 6 billion years, then one "day" (yom) of creation in Genesis would be a space of time lasting 1 billion years. SageTree: "In some culture's 'science' there is a level on which people's way of knowing is based on things western science can't figure out. Like abilities to know which plants to use for certain problems and other unexplained things that seem odd to those who don't process that level of experiencing. 6 senses are odd to these people." Bingo! There a verse in 1Corinthians about this: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1Co 2:14) "Natural" man means sensitive, that is, animate, as distinguishing the non-carnal/ethereal nature from the lower/bestial nature of the senses. Strict adherence to science is observation via the senses, believing only in what is observable and quantifiable. This is the limited discernment of "the natural man" in this verse. Mydriasis: "Shiva was all bluee! and loves the weed too." He has a nice drum too! Interesting how weed and drum circles go together. I love drum circles. SageTree: "somas what's up" What a wonderful word: Soma! "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body* which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."* (Luke 22:19) Anyone wanna take a wild guess what the word translated "body" is? Yep: Soma. In Greek it means the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively. What he is literally referring to is the bread, artos in Greek, meaning bread (as raised) or a loaf. This is from airo, meaning to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism to expiate sin. One might say this is simply bread raised with yeast. But compare the whole definition to Vedic/Sanskrit Soma or Avestan Haoma. Is it just a weird weird weird coincidence that the word for "Body" happens to be Soma in the Greek scriptures. I don't think it is. /long post Thoughts anyone? Namaste.