YaHooka Forums - View Single Post - Christian Mysticism: A personal journey inward

BibleGuy · 12-11-2009, 10:56 AM

Wow, my brother... very interesting and inspirational! I had no idea that John Westly had such a viewpoint. I really didn't know anything about him. I have been to Methodist churches and never picked up on a mysticism vibe.

"Christian mysticism is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of the Christian God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight. ... Christian mysticism usually centers on a practice... its aim of achieving unity with the divine."

"Communion" is a combination of "Common" + "Union", that which we share in common because it provides unity: Westly's "unity with the divine". There is communion in the OT as well.

"In the words of Oswald Chambers, "We receive His blessings and know His Word, but do we know Him?"

Great question. One that really got my attention when I read Jesus' words in Revelation:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven – only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’ (Matthew 7:21-23, NET

The Greek words translated "never knew" mean "not even at any time, i.e. never at all" + "to "know" (absolutely)". He never, ever knew them absolutely (intimately). There are millions who work in his name and participate in "communion", yet he makes the very serious statement above. This "Knowing", actual unity, seems to be of utmost importance.

"Whereas Christian doctrine generally maintains that God dwells in all Christians and that they can experience God directly through belief in Jesus, Christian mysticism aspires to apprehend spiritual truths inaccessible through intellectual means..."

Psalms 46:10, KJV, reads "Be still, and know that I am God...". "Be still" means to slacken. "Know" means (properly) to ascertain by seeing. I believe this means to stop thinking and instead see God (with the third eye), which agrees with Westly's statement above. The nature of "Knowing" is not intellectual. Jesus echoed this in terms of entering "as a little child" in Mark 10:15.

William Inge divides this scala perfectionis into three stages: the "purgative" or ascetic stage, the "illuminative" or contemplative stage, and the "unitive" stage, in which God may be beheld "face to face.........."

This reminds me of Moses. There is only one place that I'm aware of were he met God (YHVH) "Face-to-face" and that is the "Tent Of Meeting". Seems very significant...

".......For Christians the major emphasis of mysticism concerns a spiritual transformation of the egoic self, the following of a path designed to produce more fully realized human persons, "created in the Image and Likeness of God"... Athanasius of Alexandria: "God became human so that man might become God."

This rings of Hinduism and Buddhism in terms of ego and unity. So if I believe in Jesus according to mainstream doctrine does this make me a fully realized human? Have I become God? Do I actually mirror him? I dunno... Jesus said

I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these, because I am going to the Father. (John 14:12, NET)

It seems to me that this fruit by which we recognize the tree (follower) must be born of the unity that mysticism is all about.

I certainly haven't "arrived", but I recognize the importance and goal of mysticism. I want to know and be known by the Creator, then my life and actions will naturally fall in line.

Thanks for this thread, Sage. You gave me some stuff to chew on for sure. I was especially grabbed when you said "I accidentally found myself meditating one night after smoking a joint while reading the Bible" and where this has lead you. This is a very profound realization and there is a valuable lesson in it for all of us. Interesting... Even the term "joint" expresses the lesson in it's meaning.

12-11-2009, 10:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
BibleGuy YaHookan Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 328 Thanks: 137 Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts	Wow, my brother... very interesting and inspirational! I had no idea that John Westly had such a viewpoint. I really didn't know anything about him. I have been to Methodist churches and never picked up on a mysticism vibe. "Christian mysticism is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of the Christian God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight. ... Christian mysticism usually centers on a practice... its aim of achieving unity with the divine." "Communion" is a combination of "Common" + "Union", that which we share in common because it provides unity: Westly's "unity with the divine". There is communion in the OT as well. "In the words of Oswald Chambers, "We receive His blessings and know His Word, but do we know Him?" Great question. One that really got my attention when I read Jesus' words in Revelation: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven – only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’ (Matthew 7:21-23, NET The Greek words translated "never knew" mean "not even at any time, i.e. never at all" + "to "know" (absolutely)". He never, ever knew them absolutely (intimately). There are millions who work in his name and participate in "communion", yet he makes the *very serious* statement above. This "Knowing", actual unity, seems to be of utmost importance. "Whereas Christian doctrine generally maintains that God dwells in all Christians and that they can experience God directly through belief in Jesus, Christian mysticism aspires to apprehend spiritual truths inaccessible through intellectual means..." Psalms 46:10, KJV, reads "Be still, and know* that I am God...". "Be still" means to slacken. "Know" means (properly) to ascertain by seeing. I believe this means to stop thinking* and instead see God (with the third eye), which agrees with Westly's statement above. The nature of "Knowing" is not intellectual. Jesus echoed this in terms of entering "as a little child" in Mark 10:15. William Inge divides this scala perfectionis into three stages: the "purgative" or ascetic stage, the "illuminative" or contemplative stage, and the "unitive" stage, in which God may be beheld "face to face.........." This reminds me of Moses. There is only one place that I'm aware of were he met God (YHVH) "Face-to-face" and that is the "Tent Of Meeting". Seems very significant... ".......For Christians the major emphasis of mysticism concerns a spiritual transformation of the egoic self, the following of a path designed to produce more fully realized human persons, "created in the Image and Likeness of God"... Athanasius of Alexandria: "God became human so that man might become God." This rings of Hinduism and Buddhism in terms of ego and unity. So if I believe in Jesus according to mainstream doctrine does this make me a fully realized human? Have I become God? Do I actually mirror him? I dunno... Jesus said I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these, because I am going to the Father. (John 14:12, NET) It seems to me that this fruit by which we recognize the tree (follower) must be born of the unity that mysticism is all about. I certainly haven't "arrived", but I recognize the importance and goal of mysticism. I want to know and be known by the Creator, then my life and actions will naturally fall in line. Thanks for this thread, Sage. You gave me some stuff to chew on for sure. I was especially grabbed when you said "I accidentally found myself meditating one night after smoking a joint while reading the Bible" and where this has lead you. This is a very profound realization and there is a valuable lesson in it for all of us. Interesting... Even the term "joint" expresses the lesson in it's meaning.