What do you think of this grow mix?

TheGrandPuba · 03-09-2009, 07:21 PM

The Cannabis Cultivation GrowFAQ - The Internet Hub for Marijuana Cultivation - Nomad's Organic Mix

I don't understand why he would use bloodmeal in flower and bonemeal in veg. Shouldn't the flowering cycle have low nitrogen? And the veg low phosphorus and potassium?

Also the amount of worm castings seems really low, but maybe going with 20%(which I've heard works well) is too much.

Cerebro · 03-09-2009, 11:05 PM

i dont read it that way,
looks to me like he suggests blood and bone meal in both the veg, and flower recipes, he suggests more b'n'b for the veg mix, and adds bat guano for flower.
the plants are still vegging during flower, you still need some veg nutes, but you're right about nitrogen being mostly for veg. I use sulphate of potash as a flower additive, but am sure bat guano works well too.
there's nothing special about that mix. 90% of it is from a bag in walmart. but there's nothing wrong with it either.

g-man · 03-09-2009, 11:17 PM

The recomended NPK for pot in veg is 10-10-10 and for flower its 10-30-20. I dont mix my own soil but I do mix different nutes together to get as close as I can to the recomended NPK. I have found that if you stay very close to the recomended range you dont get any deficencys!

TheGrandPuba · 03-11-2009, 10:15 PM

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm interested to see what Dan thinks of this mix... Where are ya Danny boy?

farmergiles · 03-11-2009, 10:18 PM

Danny Boy... the angels are a callin... Danny Boy....

Human-yo · 03-11-2009, 10:22 PM

dan told me to tell you to try ground up big macs when they look hungry.

TheGrandPuba · 03-11-2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Human-yo

dan told me to tell you to try ground up big macs when they look hungry.

There is no place for your tom foolery here.... go start another 'let's set a record thread'

I'll always hate you for that.... DeadHead & a whole bunch of post whores got their start there.

Dandaweedman · 03-12-2009, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGrandPuba

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm interested to see what Dan thinks of this mix... Where are ya Danny boy?

Hi, how are ya?

Well, Bog was a pretty popular guy because of his massive plants.
I remember one he did that harvested over 11 oz indoors so he knew what he was about.
Long veg times and big pots?

We used to use a mixture quite close to that one, then I dropped the blood meal, the bone meal and raised the perlite mix by quite a bit to lighten the soil.
That way the mix can be used for both flower and veg.
if what you are looking for is to match numbers leave out everything but the perlite n peat and do it by adding nutes.
Might be easier to control.

Sam's choice "continuous feeding formula" (can be found at Wal-Mart) <-- huh? why not just use a premixed soil?

I always suggest that people try exactly what they want to. Then they will know what works for them.
Some mixes work for some people and not for others. I believe it comes down to what you plan on using later in the grow nutrient-wise.
Are you going to be watching them carefully or letting them kind of do their thing?

There have been about 5 mixes we have tried because of what others think we should be running, but we have always come back to the peat, perlite n castings.
Not all strains have the same nutrient needs no matter how we would like to say they all have the same basic nutrient requirements.
And once it's in the soil you have lost control of what you can change later should it prove to be too hot.

Not sure I am an expert by any means, but you asked what I thought.

Dandaweedman · 03-12-2009, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Human-yo

dan told me to tell you to try ground up big macs when they look hungry.

Might be better to have them watered by virgins

It provides more Nitrogen I hear.

TheGrandPuba · 03-12-2009, 02:58 PM

Thanks Dan, you're one helpful mofo.

I guess you just gotta try different things and see what works for you.

Dandaweedman · 03-12-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGrandPuba

Thanks Dan, you're one helpful mofo.

I guess you just gotta try different things and see what works for you.

Thank you, that's what I aim to be... well that and handsome. 1 outta 2 ain't bad

Dandaweedman · 03-13-2009, 11:47 AM

A revision to Vic's recipe I missed...
Revised recipe - after several failures due to bad manure sources, I now use the following recipe. Results have been excellent and the clones seem to take off right away instead of having a slow growing settling in period.
1 Bale sunshine mix #2 or promix (3.8 cu ft)
8 cups Bone Meal - phosphorus source
4 cups Blood Meal - nitrogen source
1 1/3 cups Epsom salts - magnesium source
3-4 cups dolmite lime -calcium source & pH buffering
1 tsp fritted trace elements
4 cups kelp meal.
9kg (25 lbs) bag pure worm castings
- Mix thoroughly, moisten, and let sit 1-2 weeks before use.

Dandaweedman · 03-13-2009, 11:51 AM

may as well post the rest of the story...

- The original recipe was a success, but I simply needed to experiment. In addition, sometimes not all ingredients were always available. Therefore, here are some possible additions and/or substitutions. Descriptions to follow

Blood & Bone Meal - when trying to cut costs
Kelp Meal - contains over 62 trace minerals. Good supplement for manure or for reducing the manure content to speed up availability of soil.

Worm castings - excellent source of micro nutrients
Bat guano - excellent for top dressing a week into flowering
Seabird guano
Bugs
On a couple of occasions, I've ended up with fungus gnats with this soil mix. They are more of an irritation than anything but may harm weak or young plants. Some have said that putting a layer of sand on top of the soil in the pots stops the gnats from reproducing. Others can get rid of them by doing a soil drench with diazinon or malathion.

Personally, I prefer to simply introduce fungus gnat predators (Hypoaspis miles). Once established, they not only control fungus gnats, but also thrips and mites. When there is no insect food available, they survive on dead plant material, so remain even after pests are gone to prevent future infestations. Actually, since they have been introduced, I've had no pest problems in over a year and I don't filter my intake. I got mine from Westgro (1-800-663-2552) and they have sales offices in Delta, Victoria, and Kelowna.

Update: they did nothing to prevent a mite infestation in summer of '89 and were destroyed in the mite war. They will be re-introduced after mite war is finally over.

Recycling Soil
Used soil - Reusing soil has a few downsides such as it makes it easier for diseases, viruses, and pathogens from entering your garden. Also peat based soils break down and become acidic. If you fertilize with chemicals you'll end up with salt buildups that will slow growth. Unless you like to take chances, have a good eye, and a good horticultural understanding, you may be better off with staying with fresh new soils. That said;

I grow strictly organic and I've always reused my soil. I don't sterilize the soil between plantings as my soil is full of microbes and predatory bugs that keep the bad bugs under control. After each crop, I chop up the soil and root balls with the leaves, stalks, etc and let compost for about 3 months. I then mix it up and add about 2 - 3 cups of lime for every 50 gallons composted soil. I also add about 1/2 cup epsom salts, 2 liters bone meal, 1 liter blood meal, 1 liter kelp meal, 1 tsp trace elements, and enough perlite to regain the porosity of the original soil. I used to add a bag of manure, but I was getting fertilizer burn and so have stopped now. As I've been fine tuning this, the plants just keep getting healthier and I haven't had any real pest problems for quite a while.

I know this is a controversial approach and maybe even risky, but it allows me to keep my garden pretty much self contained. I don't attract attention by buying bales of soil every 3 - 4 months year around, or in the disposal of leaves and soil after each crop. It's definitely not for those who want sterile crops and those that use pesticides and chemical ferts. I believe in working with nature, not against it.

Update: After several generations, a nutrient imbalance developed which was only solved by leaching the soil thoroughly. My hunch is that one of the micro nutrients was building to toxic levels. I guess farmers don't get this problem because they have the winter rains to leach excess nutrients from their fields.

Dandaweedman · 03-13-2009, 11:56 AM

A little more information...

Quote:

Types of Potting Mixes

The types and amounts of potting mix ingredients should change depending on the intended use. Mixes used to start seeds must be very light and full of air because seedlings die easily in heavy, wet soil. Plants grown in fairly small plug trays need a soil mix that is lighter than one used in a larger plug trays. In general, the younger and smaller the plant, the lighter the soil mix needs to be. Soil mixes that are used after the seeds are started usually contain some perlite or sand, as well as peat.
Description of Standard Potting Mix Ingredients

Sphagnum peat moss. Also called peat moss or simply peat. Peat moss is a very stable source of organic material that holds a great deal of water and air and does not decompose quickly. Peat moss is quite acidic (pH 3.5-4.0); limestone is added to the mix to balance the pH. Younger, lighter colored peat moss does a better job of providing air space than does older, darker peats that have few large pores for air space. A wide range of quality exists. Peat is the most widely used soilless medium, because of its wide availability and relatively low cost.

Composted pine bark. Its high lignin content makes it slow to degrade, so it nourishes beneficial organisms for months. Can be substituted in part for peat moss. Lightens the mix.

Sawdust. Similar to peat moss in most ways. Quality depends on type of tree: cedar, walnut, and redwood can be toxic to plants, and oak, hickory and maple deplete soil nitrogen more so than sawdust from evergreen needle trees.

Vermiculite: Handled gently, vermiculite provides plenty of air spaces in a mix. Handled roughly, vermiculite compacts and loses its ability to hold air. Vermiculite holds water and fertilizer in the potting mix. It also contains calcium and magnesium, and has a near-neutral pH. Vermiculite comes in different grades. Medium grade is usually used for starting seeds. A coarse grade can be used in soil mix for older plants.

Perlite: Perlite is a volcanic rock that has been heated and expanded to become a lightweight, white material. Perlite is sterile and pH-neutral. When added to a soil mix, perlite can improve air space and water drainage. It is a hard material that does not break apart easily. Perlite pieces create tiny air tunnels, that allow water and air to flow freely to the roots. Perlite will hold from 3 to 4 times its weight in water, yet will not become soggy. Perlite can be used instead of sand to reduce the soil mix weight. It holds very little water and costs are relatively high. It is much lighter than sand and can be used instead of it.

Limestone: Calcium carbonate (CaC03) or calcium magnesium carbonate (called dolomitic limestone) is used to adjust pH. The range can be adjusted for specific crops, but a pH range of 5.5 to 6 is ideal for most crops. Lime should be well-ground.

Sand: Coarse sand (sometimes called builder's sand) will add air space to the potting mix. Fine sand settles into the spaces between other ingredients and makes a dense mix that excludes air. Clean, washed sand has a near-neutral pH and little if any food value for plants. Sand is much heavier than any other ingredient used in potting mixes. The added weight is good for tall, top-heavy plants that might blow or tip over, but it is not the best choice for plants that will be shipped or moved a lot. Sand is the least expensive and most readily available source of larger-particle material.

Commercial Starter Fertilizer: Most commercial mixes contain starter fertilizer blends. Whether the blends are made of micro- or macro-nutrients, they are usually formed from synthetic fertilizer. These fertilizers are prohibited from use in potting media used for certified organic production.

Wetting Agents: Wetting agents are a common ingredient in commercial potting mixes. They are included to help regulate moisture, improve aeration, and increase nutrient availability. Most wetting agents do not qualify for approval by organic certifying agencies. Check with a local certifying agent to see if there are any approved materials with wetting properties. Safers Soap® products have surfactant qualities and might be suitable. Some certifying agencies also accept Shaklee's Basic-H® and similar materials considered to be biodegradable. Wetting agents should be used conservatively. Some commercial materials have been found to be deleterious at too high a concentration (1). A University of California Peat-Lite mix employs 3 oz. of wetting agent for a 17 cubic foot media mix consisting of equal portions of peat moss and vermiculite(2). The wetting qualities of compost-based mixes may be superior to peat-based mixtures and may not need wetting agents.
Description of Alternative Potting Mix Ingredients

Compost: Made from a variety of locally available materials, usually a combination of ingredients that are high in nitrogen (such as manure or alfalfa) and those high in carbon (such as straw or corn stocks). Compost holds water well and provides nutrients; the amount of nutrients provided depends on what it is made from. It is important to select the highest quality compost available. It can be used with or in place of peat moss. Compost is cheaper than peat moss and contains nutrients. Compost can also provide natural protection against diseases of the seedlings and roots of plants due to beneficial organisms that live in well-made compost. For more information on disease-suppressive composts, contact ATTRA.

Alfalfa: Alfalfa may be a good, locally available, alternative to peat moss. Alfalfa provides nutrients, especially nitrogen, that releases slowly in the mix, making the fertilizer less likely to flow out of the pot when irrigated. Raw alfalfa must be processed before use in a potting mix. To process: Grind raw alfalfa through a 2 cm screen. Add water and decompose for 20 days. Air dry for another 20 days after decomposition.

Newspaper: Ground-up newspapers might be a good ingredient in a potting mix, and could be used instead of peat moss. Newsprint should not be more than 25% by volume of the mix.

Coir: Coir comes from coconut husks and is a waste product of the coco fiber industry. Coir's structure is similar to that of peat, but its pH is higher (5.5-6.0). It holds up to nine times its weight in water. Coir can have a high salt content. See below for coir suppliers.

Mineral wool: This is a coarse material resembling fiberglass, spun from blast furnace slag. Very little research has been done with mineral wool. It might be a sustainable option for growers near factories that produce blast furnace slag.

Kenaf: Kenaf is a fibrous plant grown in the Deep South. At the end of the growing season, kenaf plants are cut down and parts of them used to make paper. The waste products can be used as growing media. Growers who have used kenaf have seen excellent results.

03-09-2009, 07:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
TheGrandPuba amateur gynecologist Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: in my head Posts: 2,588 Thanks: 43 Thanked 59 Times in 38 Posts	What do you think of this grow mix? The Cannabis Cultivation GrowFAQ - The Internet Hub for Marijuana Cultivation - Nomad's Organic Mix I don't understand why he would use bloodmeal in flower and bonemeal in veg. Shouldn't the flowering cycle have low nitrogen? And the veg low phosphorus and potassium? Also the amount of worm castings seems really low, but maybe going with 20%(which I've heard works well) is too much.

03-11-2009, 10:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
farmergiles Yahookan Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sick of the hatred and the lies Posts: 7,791 Thanks: 2,280 Thanked 3,745 Times in 2,550 Posts	Danny Boy... the angels are a callin... Danny Boy.... __________________ Cultivate a stoic calmness *Fuck the Monkeys* Every Kind of Vice

03-11-2009, 10:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
Human-yo Posts: 32,562 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 4,364 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 83 Thanked 105 Times in 76 Posts	dan told me to tell you to try ground up big macs when they look hungry. __________________ Love, Human Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

03-12-2009, 02:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
TheGrandPuba amateur gynecologist Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: in my head Posts: 2,588 Thanks: 43 Thanked 59 Times in 38 Posts	Thanks Dan, you're one helpful mofo. I guess you just gotta try different things and see what works for you. Last edited by TheGrandPuba; 03-12-2009 at 03:41 PM.

03-13-2009, 11:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,407 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	A revision to Vic's recipe I missed... Revised recipe - after several failures due to bad manure sources, I now use the following recipe. Results have been excellent and the clones seem to take off right away instead of having a slow growing settling in period. 1 Bale sunshine mix #2 or promix (3.8 cu ft) 8 cups Bone Meal - phosphorus source 4 cups Blood Meal - nitrogen source 1 1/3 cups Epsom salts - magnesium source 3-4 cups dolmite lime -calcium source & pH buffering 1 tsp fritted trace elements 4 cups kelp meal. 9kg (25 lbs) bag pure worm castings - Mix thoroughly, moisten, and let sit 1-2 weeks before use. __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

03-09-2009, 11:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
g-man YaHookan Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: So Cal Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The recomended NPK for pot in veg is 10-10-10 and for flower its 10-30-20. I dont mix my own soil but I do mix different nutes together to get as close as I can to the recomended NPK. I have found that if you stay very close to the recomended range you dont get any deficencys!

03-11-2009, 10:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
TheGrandPuba amateur gynecologist Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: in my head Posts: 2,588 Thanks: 43 Thanked 59 Times in 38 Posts	Thanks for the replies guys, I'm interested to see what Dan thinks of this mix... Where are ya Danny boy?

03-13-2009, 11:51 AM	#13 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,407 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	may as well post the rest of the story... - The original recipe was a success, but I simply needed to experiment. In addition, sometimes not all ingredients were always available. Therefore, here are some possible additions and/or substitutions. Descriptions to follow Blood & Bone Meal - when trying to cut costs Kelp Meal - contains over 62 trace minerals. Good supplement for manure or for reducing the manure content to speed up availability of soil. Worm castings - excellent source of micro nutrients Bat guano - excellent for top dressing a week into flowering Seabird guano Bugs On a couple of occasions, I've ended up with fungus gnats with this soil mix. They are more of an irritation than anything but may harm weak or young plants. Some have said that putting a layer of sand on top of the soil in the pots stops the gnats from reproducing. Others can get rid of them by doing a soil drench with diazinon or malathion. Personally, I prefer to simply introduce fungus gnat predators (Hypoaspis miles). Once established, they not only control fungus gnats, but also thrips and mites. When there is no insect food available, they survive on dead plant material, so remain even after pests are gone to prevent future infestations. Actually, since they have been introduced, I've had no pest problems in over a year and I don't filter my intake. I got mine from Westgro (1-800-663-2552) and they have sales offices in Delta, Victoria, and Kelowna. Update: they did nothing to prevent a mite infestation in summer of '89 and were destroyed in the mite war. They will be re-introduced after mite war is finally over. Recycling Soil Used soil - Reusing soil has a few downsides such as it makes it easier for diseases, viruses, and pathogens from entering your garden. Also peat based soils break down and become acidic. If you fertilize with chemicals you'll end up with salt buildups that will slow growth. Unless you like to take chances, have a good eye, and a good horticultural understanding, you may be better off with staying with fresh new soils. That said; I grow strictly organic and I've always reused my soil. I don't sterilize the soil between plantings as my soil is full of microbes and predatory bugs that keep the bad bugs under control. After each crop, I chop up the soil and root balls with the leaves, stalks, etc and let compost for about 3 months. I then mix it up and add about 2 - 3 cups of lime for every 50 gallons composted soil. I also add about 1/2 cup epsom salts, 2 liters bone meal, 1 liter blood meal, 1 liter kelp meal, 1 tsp trace elements, and enough perlite to regain the porosity of the original soil. I used to add a bag of manure, but I was getting fertilizer burn and so have stopped now. As I've been fine tuning this, the plants just keep getting healthier and I haven't had any real pest problems for quite a while. I know this is a controversial approach and maybe even risky, but it allows me to keep my garden pretty much self contained. I don't attract attention by buying bales of soil every 3 - 4 months year around, or in the disposal of leaves and soil after each crop. It's definitely not for those who want sterile crops and those that use pesticides and chemical ferts. I believe in working with nature, not against it. Update: After several generations, a nutrient imbalance developed which was only solved by leaching the soil thoroughly. My hunch is that one of the micro nutrients was building to toxic levels. I guess farmers don't get this problem because they have the winter rains to leach excess nutrients from their fields. __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

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