How do i not burn my place down?

Sir_Smoke_Alot · 03-12-2009, 02:20 PM

Currently I am using 3 13W CFL's, 1 20W CFL, and a 20W florescent. Plugged into a wall plug. could I add another surge protector on a spliter and the same set up (doubling my lights) or would that overpower the plug?

Also do I need more lights than that for 6 beans?

seaflo · 03-13-2009, 06:53 AM

Calculate the amperage used by each fixture; then check the electrical circuit they are on and determine what amperage breaker it is. My rule of thumb is that the usage should not be greater than 75% of the rating of the circuit; i.e. if you have a 30 amp breaker, you should not be using more than 22.5 amps. Of course you have to determine what the wiring type is too. My calcs are for copper wiring. If your house has aluminum, God forbid, a 50% rule should apply and you should consider rewiring your house with copper. An overloaded circuit is a recipe for disaster. Please bear in mind I am not an electrician/electrical engineer just someone that has been there and done that a few times. Good luck.

seaflo · 03-13-2009, 09:45 AM

The quick way to tell if there is a potential problem is go to your breaker/fuse panel and place the back of your hand against the outer cover. Do this when everything is running and has been running for almost a full cycle and only use the back of your hand to touch the metal panel; if there is a short and you touch it, by using the back of your hand, the fingers and palm will contract inward (making a fist) and it will make you jerk away from the metal panel. NEVER TOUCH WITH THE PALM OF YOUR HAND. If there is heat, there is a problem. One or more circuits could be overloaded. Never think your breakers will prevent a fire. They fail or do not perform as rated frequently. Use good judgment; do not overload the outlets (I have seen people with 14 things plugged into one duplex outlet by using strip outlets and receptacle duplicators). Lastly, if you are using HIDs try to set them up on 220 volt service. The circuits' materials are constructed better and rated higher. They will not spike the service the way 120 volt service will either. Overall a much better electrical service design. The Europeans have it here for sure. Be safe around this stuff as it is very unforgiving.

Dandaweedman · 03-13-2009, 01:21 PM

Good posts seaflo.

The aluminum wire holds the same 75% rule here as copper, might be different where you are.
My rule of thumb? 10- 100 watt light bulbs max out a 15 amp circuit.
You have to map the circuit you want to check out to see what is actually on it.
You can pick up a curcuit tracker at any big box hardware store or an electrical supplier for about 40 USD to make the search easier.
Plug in one part and run a probe down the breakers on the panel and it will beep to tell you when you have reached the receptacle that the other part of the tester is plugged into.
Or you can do it manually by tracking what shuts off when you flip the breaker.
Or you can make a breaker blower, those are excellent.
Just a light switch wired to a male plug. Plug it in, flip the switch and blow the breaker to find it.

Dandaweedman · 03-13-2009, 01:25 PM

Everyone says "spikes" blowing timers etc. I have been running HIDS for years and have the same timer.
I have placed a surge suppressor before the timer just in case as well.

Now if there was a spike I would expect it to trip the surge suppressor since it is only 10 amp capable.
Our light runs about 6.4 amps, our fan is 340 watts, the mover is about 23 watts for a total of about 7 amps. Not much allowable for a spike.
I am going to purchase one of those black and pecker doo-dads that measure the juice anything plugged into it uses. Maybe that'll show a surge of some kind.

seaflo · 03-13-2009, 02:48 PM

Dan, I agree I have not had problems with spikes from the interior but many from providers all over the world. I have lived places where the power was only available if you made it, which was a hell of lot better than many other so called "electrical providers" services.
SML, if you are really concerned or even if you are not at this point, you should consider engaging a licensed professional to inspect and evaluate your electrical system. I know I will get flack for saying that on this type of forum, but the safety of persons within the location are the main concern; everything besides that should be dealt with by you as to restrict unwanted observations by the inspector. Fires usually start when they are least expected. I don't want to be an armchair QB concerning safety. But as Dan inferred, get to know the equipment you are using and their demands and safety precautions. My 2p.

Roach · 03-13-2009, 08:10 PM

We use 100 watt = 1 ampere as a general rule for lighting load calculations.

( big motor loads are calculated with more concern for surge currents ,phase compensation, etc)

with aluminum to copper connections and aluminum to aluminum connections you must/should always use an antioxidant compound, to prevent oxidation of the connections ..resistance....heat ..arcing and fire.

Dandaweedman · 03-13-2009, 09:34 PM

Good electrical thread.
Funny things we need just pop right up?

al-Mu'akhkhir · 03-13-2009, 10:08 PM

is it acceptable to use 25w per square foot of plantage for teh veg? i would figure that would equal out to approximately 25w per plant...

not to go offtopic, but..

**farmergiles** · 03-14-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K

with aluminum to copper connections and aluminum to aluminum connections you must/should always use an antioxidant compound, to prevent oxidation of the connections ..resistance....heat ..arcing and fire.

Wise words- the electromotive series results in one of the metals being corroded. Aluminium wiring sounds well sketchy, what`s the point?

seaflo · 03-17-2009, 09:36 AM

For service receptacles and most house wiring aluminum was banned by most home inspecting governmental agencies years ago in the US. That type of wiring was responsible for numerous fires. Aluminum's resistance is high and thus it generates more heat; i.e. plastic insulation melts due to the high temps in the wire and then there's a fire. However in high voltage applications where the wire size (diameter) is greater and amperage draw is a relative constant (design control), aluminum is allowable. My advise to anyone with aluminum wiring for their 120/240 volt services is REPLACE IT NOW. The construction industry used it to save money versus using copper (bad idea, like so many cost "effective" measures). One should also use a sealant material (we used to use grease) to coat the dissimilar metals connections to reduce electrolysis MAKE DAMN SURE THE POWER IS OFF WHENEVER WORKING AROUND ELECTRICITY (THAT'S THE KIND OF BUZZ NO ONE NEEDS).
Aluminum is best in beverage cans. My 2p.

Dandaweedman · 03-17-2009, 12:51 PM

Since aluminum expands and contracts so much when current heats the connectors up they would come loose and could cause a fire, or a melted marette

It is advised to re-tighten all aluminum connections every couple of years.

That's kinda what you said hey seaflo?

In this province only copper is used for residential and comm./industrial as far as I have seen.
I have spent years baby-sitting electricians, plumbers and other trades but I surely ain't going to say that I have seen everything

I was working in construction when they were fazing it out here. Some houses have half aluminum and half copper

Then you have to make sure that when you replace switches and outlets to use only those labeled as "for aluminum".

I wonder who the brainiac was who figured to use aluminum?

seaflo · 03-18-2009, 08:11 AM

It's unfortunate that the 1,000s of lives lost to aluminum wiring were not enough to change the regulations; it took the insurance companies lobbying governmental agencies to change it. Sometimes the system works in a very "left-handed" manner. Canada has been more rational, I believe, when it comes to change; from what I have seen there are less self-interest groups lobbying the government than in the US.
I am sure the brainiac was Alcoa; every year, just in the US, Alcoa spends $20 - $35 million US$s on lobbyist in Washington. Due to many other countries not have the research money they take the US's lead and use what is allowable in the US; the big problem is that when the US changes its position due to developing research that shows the materials harmful, the other less developed countries still use the shit; i. e. DDT throughout Africa and SA.
The real change, I believe, is happening during our time; right now. Due to the internet and the volumes of materials that are available to the "common" man/woman increases our chances that the crap these lobbyist pull can be recognized rather quickly. The web works.

Sir_Smoke_Alot · 03-18-2009, 08:16 PM

Thank you everyone for all of your help!

The place I live is very old so im not sure what wiring it has and I am wondering:

1st- Do I have too much already and am in danger?

2nd- If i can, how many more amps could I put on this circuit before it isnt safe?

3rd- Am I currently using enough light to produce good flowering for 6 beans?

4th- Could I add another surge protector on a spliter and the same set up (doubling my lights) or would that overpower the plug?

Here is what I am currently working with again:

I am using three 13W CFL's, one 20W CFL, and a 20W florescent on a surge protector. This is connected to two 13A extension cords which is plugged into a wall plug in a old house.
Thanks

**farmergiles** · 03-19-2009, 04:56 PM

If I`ve got this straight

3 x 13 = 39
+ 20 + 20 = 79 watts

Is not worth worrying about.

Lets see

Power = Voltage x Current

Assuming Voltage = 240

79 = 240 x Current

Current = 0.33 Amps.

Assuming your outlet is good for 13 Amps even with massive allowances for surging when you turn on, the current will be negligible.

It`s good to consider this stuff though.

Edit- In answer to your other questions-

2- Impossible to tell without knowing more about your wiring. Unless it was wired up by a cowboy it should be good for 13A (or at least it should be in my locale- don`t know where you are).
However I wouldn`t load it that much as there may be surges on strike up.

eg
P=VI.
P=240 x 13 = 3120

So allowing for surge say 50% 2000 watts ish.

As I say though, that`s a complete guess without seeing your wiring.

3- No, not unless you keep the plants very small, I`d recommend a 400w sodium bulb for 6 plants or at least 200w of flouro`s.

4- Again impossible to say for sure but 400w should be fine unless your wiring is totally farked.

Sir_Smoke_Alot · 03-23-2009, 09:29 AM

Wow, thanks a lot!
This is exactly the answer I was hoping for when i posted this.

Funny enough, I life in Oklahoma, so it is very possible that a stupid ass cowboy wired my place

**farmergiles** · 03-26-2009, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir_Smoke_Alot

Funny enough, I life in Oklahoma, so it is very possible that a stupid ass cowboy wired my place

Lols. I always wanted to start a construction company called High Chaparral.

03-12-2009, 02:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sir_Smoke_Alot YaHookan Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norman Posts: 49 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	How do i not burn my place down? Currently I am using 3 13W CFL's, 1 20W CFL, and a 20W florescent. Plugged into a wall plug. could I add another surge protector on a spliter and the same set up (doubling my lights) or would that overpower the plug? Also do I need more lights than that for 6 beans?

03-13-2009, 06:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
seaflo Old School Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 191 Thanks: 100 Thanked 60 Times in 40 Posts	Calculate the amperage used by each fixture; then check the electrical circuit they are on and determine what amperage breaker it is. My rule of thumb is that the usage should not be greater than 75% of the rating of the circuit; i.e. if you have a 30 amp breaker, you should not be using more than 22.5 amps. Of course you have to determine what the wiring type is too. My calcs are for copper wiring. If your house has aluminum, God forbid, a 50% rule should apply and you should consider rewiring your house with copper. An overloaded circuit is a recipe for disaster. Please bear in mind I am not an electrician/electrical engineer just someone that has been there and done that a few times. Good luck. __________________ FREE AMERICA FROM INTOLERANCE.

03-13-2009, 09:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
seaflo Old School Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 191 Thanks: 100 Thanked 60 Times in 40 Posts	The quick way to tell if there is a potential problem is go to your breaker/fuse panel and place the back of your hand against the outer cover. Do this when everything is running and has been running for almost a full cycle and only use the back of your hand to touch the metal panel; if there is a short and you touch it, by using the back of your hand, the fingers and palm will contract inward (making a fist) and it will make you jerk away from the metal panel. NEVER TOUCH WITH THE PALM OF YOUR HAND. If there is heat, there is a problem. One or more circuits could be overloaded. Never think your breakers will prevent a fire. They fail or do not perform as rated frequently. Use good judgment; do not overload the outlets (I have seen people with 14 things plugged into one duplex outlet by using strip outlets and receptacle duplicators). Lastly, if you are using HIDs try to set them up on 220 volt service. The circuits' materials are constructed better and rated higher. They will not spike the service the way 120 volt service will either. Overall a much better electrical service design. The Europeans have it here for sure. Be safe around this stuff as it is very unforgiving. __________________ FREE AMERICA FROM INTOLERANCE.

03-13-2009, 01:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,414 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	Good posts seaflo. The aluminum wire holds the same 75% rule here as copper, might be different where you are. My rule of thumb? 10- 100 watt light bulbs max out a 15 amp circuit. You have to map the circuit you want to check out to see what is actually on it. You can pick up a curcuit tracker at any big box hardware store or an electrical supplier for about 40 USD to make the search easier. Plug in one part and run a probe down the breakers on the panel and it will beep to tell you when you have reached the receptacle that the other part of the tester is plugged into. Or you can do it manually by tracking what shuts off when you flip the breaker. Or you can make a breaker blower, those are excellent. Just a light switch wired to a male plug. Plug it in, flip the switch and blow the breaker to find it. __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

03-13-2009, 01:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,414 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	Everyone says "spikes" blowing timers etc. I have been running HIDS for years and have the same timer. I have placed a surge suppressor before the timer just in case as well. Now if there was a spike I would expect it to trip the surge suppressor since it is only 10 amp capable. Our light runs about 6.4 amps, our fan is 340 watts, the mover is about 23 watts for a total of about 7 amps. Not much allowable for a spike. I am going to purchase one of those black and pecker doo-dads that measure the juice anything plugged into it uses. Maybe that'll show a surge of some kind. __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

03-13-2009, 02:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
seaflo Old School Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 191 Thanks: 100 Thanked 60 Times in 40 Posts	Dan, I agree I have not had problems with spikes from the interior but many from providers all over the world. I have lived places where the power was only available if you made it, which was a hell of lot better than many other so called "electrical providers" services. SML, if you are really concerned or even if you are not at this point, you should consider engaging a licensed professional to inspect and evaluate your electrical system. I know I will get flack for saying that on this type of forum, but the safety of persons within the location are the main concern; everything besides that should be dealt with by you as to restrict unwanted observations by the inspector. Fires usually start when they are least expected. I don't want to be an armchair QB concerning safety. But as Dan inferred, get to know the equipment you are using and their demands and safety precautions. My 2p. __________________ FREE AMERICA FROM INTOLERANCE.

03-13-2009, 08:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
Roach Victoria Aut Mors Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 6,771 Thanks: 2,116 Thanked 1,721 Times in 1,333 Posts	We use 100 watt = 1 ampere as a general rule for lighting load calculations. ( big motor loads are calculated with more concern for surge currents ,phase compensation, etc) with aluminum to copper connections and aluminum to aluminum connections you must/should always use an antioxidant compound, to prevent oxidation of the connections ..resistance....heat ..arcing and fire. __________________ לזיין את הקופים

03-13-2009, 09:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,414 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	Good electrical thread. Funny things we need just pop right up? __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

03-13-2009, 10:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
al-Mu'akhkhir Vem Para Ficar Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: in some pussy Posts: 3,265 Thanks: 500 Thanked 351 Times in 270 Posts	is it acceptable to use 25w per square foot of plantage for teh veg? i would figure that would equal out to approximately 25w per plant... not to go offtopic, but.. __________________ Last edited by al-Mu'akhkhir; 03-13-2009 at 10:40 PM.

03-17-2009, 09:36 AM	#11 (permalink)
seaflo Old School Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 191 Thanks: 100 Thanked 60 Times in 40 Posts	For service receptacles and most house wiring aluminum was banned by most home inspecting governmental agencies years ago in the US. That type of wiring was responsible for numerous fires. Aluminum's resistance is high and thus it generates more heat; i.e. plastic insulation melts due to the high temps in the wire and then there's a fire. However in high voltage applications where the wire size (diameter) is greater and amperage draw is a relative constant (design control), aluminum is allowable. My advise to anyone with aluminum wiring for their 120/240 volt services is REPLACE IT NOW. The construction industry used it to save money versus using copper (bad idea, like so many cost "effective" measures). One should also use a sealant material (we used to use grease) to coat the dissimilar metals connections to reduce electrolysis MAKE DAMN SURE THE POWER IS OFF WHENEVER WORKING AROUND ELECTRICITY (THAT'S THE KIND OF BUZZ NO ONE NEEDS). Aluminum is best in beverage cans. My 2p. __________________ FREE AMERICA FROM INTOLERANCE.

03-17-2009, 12:51 PM	#12 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,414 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	Since aluminum expands and contracts so much when current heats the connectors up they would come loose and could cause a fire, or a melted marette It is advised to re-tighten all aluminum connections every couple of years. That's kinda what you said hey seaflo? In this province only copper is used for residential and comm./industrial as far as I have seen. I have spent years baby-sitting electricians, plumbers and other trades but I surely ain't going to say that I have seen everything I was working in construction when they were fazing it out here. Some houses have half aluminum and half copper Then you have to make sure that when you replace switches and outlets to use only those labeled as "for aluminum". I wonder who the brainiac was who figured to use aluminum? __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

03-18-2009, 08:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
seaflo Old School Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 191 Thanks: 100 Thanked 60 Times in 40 Posts	It's unfortunate that the 1,000s of lives lost to aluminum wiring were not enough to change the regulations; it took the insurance companies lobbying governmental agencies to change it. Sometimes the system works in a very "left-handed" manner. Canada has been more rational, I believe, when it comes to change; from what I have seen there are less self-interest groups lobbying the government than in the US. I am sure the brainiac was Alcoa; every year, just in the US, Alcoa spends $20 - $35 million US$s on lobbyist in Washington. Due to many other countries not have the research money they take the US's lead and use what is allowable in the US; the big problem is that when the US changes its position due to developing research that shows the materials harmful, the other less developed countries still use the shit; i. e. DDT throughout Africa and SA. The real change, I believe, is happening during our time; right now. Due to the internet and the volumes of materials that are available to the "common" man/woman increases our chances that the crap these lobbyist pull can be recognized rather quickly. The web works. __________________ FREE AMERICA FROM INTOLERANCE.

03-18-2009, 08:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
Sir_Smoke_Alot YaHookan Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norman Posts: 49 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thank you everyone for all of your help! The place I live is very old so im not sure what wiring it has and I am wondering: 1st- Do I have too much already and am in danger? 2nd- If i can, how many more amps could I put on this circuit before it isnt safe? 3rd- Am I currently using enough light to produce good flowering for 6 beans? 4th- Could I add another surge protector on a spliter and the same set up (doubling my lights) or would that overpower the plug? Here is what I am currently working with again: I am using three 13W CFL's, one 20W CFL, and a 20W florescent on a surge protector. This is connected to two 13A extension cords which is plugged into a wall plug in a old house. Thanks

03-19-2009, 04:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
farmergiles Yahookan Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In My Fire Engine Posts: 7,134 Thanks: 2,040 Thanked 3,167 Times in 2,191 Posts	If I`ve got this straight 3 x 13 = 39 + 20 + 20 = 79 watts Is not worth worrying about. Lets see Power = Voltage x Current Assuming Voltage = 240 79 = 240 x Current Current = 0.33 Amps. Assuming your outlet is good for 13 Amps even with massive allowances for surging when you turn on, the current will be negligible. It`s good to consider this stuff though. Edit- In answer to your other questions- 2- Impossible to tell without knowing more about your wiring. Unless it was wired up by a cowboy it should be good for 13A (or at least it should be in my locale- don`t know where you are). However I wouldn`t load it that much as there may be surges on strike up. eg P=VI. P=240 x 13 = 3120 So allowing for surge say 50% 2000 watts ish. As I say though, that`s a complete guess without seeing your wiring. 3- No, not unless you keep the plants very small, I`d recommend a 400w sodium bulb for 6 plants or at least 200w of flouro`s. 4- Again impossible to say for sure but 400w should be fine unless your wiring is totally farked. __________________ Cultivate a stoic calmness *Fuck the Monkeys* Last edited by farmergiles; 03-19-2009 at 05:08 PM.

03-23-2009, 09:29 AM	#16 (permalink)
Sir_Smoke_Alot YaHookan Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norman Posts: 49 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Wow, thanks a lot! This is exactly the answer I was hoping for when i posted this. Funny enough, I life in Oklahoma, so it is very possible that a stupid ass cowboy wired my place

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