Some possible stealth cooling, venting & power thoughts

Galt · 07-12-2010, 04:08 PM

New med shed project has me tryin' ta think outside the box. Neighbors are cool but don't wanna advertise so whad'ya think about summa dis...

Anybody ever try Peltier TEC (Thermo Electric Cooling) modules on their M.H.'s? My kids have been playin' with them fer years in cooling their overclocked PC's. If you can make 'em water tight enough to run through a computer I'm sure that they could be made safe enough for a grow room.

The Heatsink Guide - Peltier cooler information

Layered on the top of the reflectors in direct contact with a steel or aluminum enclosure the heat exchange should be very efficient. The back side of the Peltiers could be bonded to a copper water block liquid heat exchanger.

Peltier Coolers : Seebeck Effect : Thermoelectric Cooling : Generator : CustomThermoelectric .com

The water flow through the copper block could be directed very discreetly out of the room and transferred to another medium. In my case I'm thinkin' of a kind of reverse geo-thermal gig.

Bury a couple of hundred feet of line below the freeze line and run the loop underground. The heated water tubing would be in direct contact with the ground which around here stays about 57 degrees F.

Google Image Result for http://www.confortgeothermi que.com/images/content/UserFiles/Image/systemes/systeme_verticale.jp g

A shorter version could be to run the water into an old frig in an adjoining room and through a copper coil sittin' in the frig. (Also a great place fer some tasty home brew to live)

The Peltier/water block heat exchanger could also be mounted on the light ballasts to assist or replace the factory cooling. Everything could be plumbed together through a local manifold of ball valves and some copper tubing.

Our Large Selection Of Radiant Heating Materials Can Benefit Your Project

Pumping could be as simple as a pond pump but a hydronic heating system Taco type circulating pump would be infinitely more reliable and long lasting.

These heat exchangers can also be used to pass heat from one liquid to another.
Stainless Steel Copper Brazed Flat Plate Heat Exchangers

Haven't tried any of this yet but I'm planning on doing a little R&D prototyping before I commit full scale. Any comments or query's would be appreciated.

'Nuther idea was to use one of my Koi ponds as a giant reverse hookah air filter.

Regenerative Blowers

Blowers that are used in place of piston or diaphragm air pumps in aquaculture set ups aren't very good at overcoming high head pressures but they do move a good bit of air against modest back pressure. The thought was to feed the intake side of the blower with grow room "ode de bud" and have the blower force it through a series of drilled PVC tubes that are painted black and buried under the gravel in my koi pond's bog filter. Aeration for my aquatic plants' roots and the odor causing phenols or whatever the hell they are would be absorbed by the water and eaten by microbes or deteriorate in the sun.

Make-up air for the grow room (to replace what the blower would be exhaling) could be drawn from earth tubes that are manifolded together underground. This has a couple of positives; first, that the incoming air would be tempered year round by a fairly constant subterranean soil temp. Second, that by drawing air from say 6 or 8 different intakes maybe 4-6" in diameter and remote from the grow room, the velocity and volume of air entering each tube would be significantly reduced, thereby eliminating the intake whoosh.

A heat exchanging reclamation of sorts could be created as a separate loop for the light cooling water by running that water tubing through the make-up air earth tubes. The incoming air would pick up additional heat in the cold months and the water would cool in inverse proportion.

The blowers are typically plumbed through 3-6" PVC so it wouldn't be too tough to pull an extra branch off of the plumbing to provide aeration for the nutrient/grow buckets and resevoirs. (see what kinda crazy shit weed makes ya think of)...

Then there's the radiant hydronic heat for the grow room / building. Insulation under a concrete slab that has PEX tubing running back and forth all through it and connected to a water heater, a small boiler or solar panels. The concrete works like a giant thermal battery and the water carries the heat. Once the system is tempered and stabilized it's about the most efficient and comfortable heat available.

Because you're heating objects and not the air the system doesn't have to cycle as frequently. The concrete will store a lot more heat energy than air can, and the heat is being transferred at a much lower point so that it does more good than hot air being blown up to pool near the ceiling. I'm thinking that what I believe is called a DWC system, with buckets of water sitting all over the floor, would benefit the most from this. They also make remodel systems that can be installed over existing wood or concrete floors.

The cool part about circulating water or glycol systems is that when coupled with a geo-thermal loop the flow can be re-routed to the ground loop to help cool the slab during the hot months. Dew points and humidity can cause some condensation issues but this can be pretty well monitored and controlled with a dehumidifier, humidistat and fans.

I haven't tried it yet as a grow light reflector but the foil faced bubble wrap that they sell for radiant water heating systems is pretty tough stuff. I don't have a need for it but it struck me that it would make a much better small grow chamber than some of the polyethylene sheeting and reflective tarp set-ups that I've seen. Might make a decent floor covering as well.

Thought about applying Mylar to thin sheets of acrylic and then using the reflective panels to line the grow room walls by attaching Velcro strips to their back. If I need to reconfigure or make it all go away on short notice, the panels can be pulled off and moved pretty quickly. As fer the "Sea of Green"...well I guess I'm gonna need a deeper koi pond to swallow them up.

Last but not least - I'm wonderin' if Yobama will give me a tax credit for makin' my med shed solar. The best way to avoid an attention grabbing electron bills is to simply keep yer shit off of the grid. If you don't try to store too much and live principally off of what you generate during the peak hours you can keep the PV system cost down initially and get by with just a mild increase in grid suck.

They have been preachin' a shift to a new greener economy. How much greener can ya get than growin' da weed?

**Kompressor** · 07-12-2010, 09:28 PM

All I can say Galt, I for one am impressed by you and your kids' ingenuity and innovation.

Hope to hear much more from you.

Dandaweedman · 08-18-2010, 07:20 PM

Nice post.
They do make water cooling setups. But what if?!?!?!?!?

Galt · 08-19-2010, 11:49 AM

Thought that the Peltiers were the way to go 'cuz they get so insanely cold. I moved away from the HPS/MH idea and am working with H.O. T-5 fluorescents in a sort of micro-grow. Still might be using the water cooling on the Fluoro ballasts if I can't get away with mounting them far enough away remotely.

My buddy is working with me now to help me pare the watts down to a minimum and make this fandango a total or near total solar endeavor. He sees a lot more black helicopters in his dreams than I do...but of course he's never been busted either.

SmokeaJoint · 08-19-2010, 12:14 PM

Holy shit dude thats an amazing setup. IDK how much more stealth it could get than that, unless you also have a Batcave, in that case grow shit in there.

Galt · 08-19-2010, 12:45 PM

I love that movie. Strikes a cord with my fuck authority attitude.

Ultimately I'd like to be able to categorically deny the police State any probable cause bullshit for ever being on my property. If nothing illegal is observed entering or leaving, if there is no issue of heat signature or increased/unusual energy use, no odor, no noise, and no satellite/drone pictures, they've got no excuse for ever setting foot in my yard.

Now if I can just think of an instant evidence destruction device that won't accidentally kill my high ass I'll be able to relax, smoke a dube and enjoy a frosty home brew in my little paranoia paradise.

Galt · 08-19-2010, 01:12 PM

BTW....I'm Batman.

SmokeaJoint · 08-19-2010, 01:13 PM

HA! I bet you are...

07-12-2010, 04:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
Galt Si fecisti nega! Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: In the Great State of Denial Posts: 565 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 304 Thanked 316 Times in 208 Posts	Some possible stealth cooling, venting & power thoughts New med shed project has me tryin' ta think outside the box. Neighbors are cool but don't wanna advertise so whad'ya think about summa dis... Anybody ever try Peltier TEC (Thermo Electric Cooling) modules on their M.H.'s? My kids have been playin' with them fer years in cooling their overclocked PC's. If you can make 'em water tight enough to run through a computer I'm sure that they could be made safe enough for a grow room. The Heatsink Guide - Peltier cooler information Layered on the top of the reflectors in direct contact with a steel or aluminum enclosure the heat exchange should be very efficient. The back side of the Peltiers could be bonded to a copper water block liquid heat exchanger. Peltier Coolers : Seebeck Effect : Thermoelectric Cooling : Generator : CustomThermoelectric .com The water flow through the copper block could be directed very discreetly out of the room and transferred to another medium. In my case I'm thinkin' of a kind of reverse geo-thermal gig. Bury a couple of hundred feet of line below the freeze line and run the loop underground. The heated water tubing would be in direct contact with the ground which around here stays about 57 degrees F. Google Image Result for http://www.confortgeothermi que.com/images/content/UserFiles/Image/systemes/systeme_verticale.jp g A shorter version could be to run the water into an old frig in an adjoining room and through a copper coil sittin' in the frig. (Also a great place fer some tasty home brew to live) The Peltier/water block heat exchanger could also be mounted on the light ballasts to assist or replace the factory cooling. Everything could be plumbed together through a local manifold of ball valves and some copper tubing. Our Large Selection Of Radiant Heating Materials Can Benefit Your Project Pumping could be as simple as a pond pump but a hydronic heating system Taco type circulating pump would be infinitely more reliable and long lasting. These heat exchangers can also be used to pass heat from one liquid to another. Stainless Steel Copper Brazed Flat Plate Heat Exchangers Haven't tried any of this yet but I'm planning on doing a little R&D prototyping before I commit full scale. Any comments or query's would be appreciated. 'Nuther idea was to use one of my Koi ponds as a giant reverse hookah air filter. Regenerative Blowers Blowers that are used in place of piston or diaphragm air pumps in aquaculture set ups aren't very good at overcoming high head pressures but they do move a good bit of air against modest back pressure. The thought was to feed the intake side of the blower with grow room "ode de bud" and have the blower force it through a series of drilled PVC tubes that are painted black and buried under the gravel in my koi pond's bog filter. Aeration for my aquatic plants' roots and the odor causing phenols or whatever the hell they are would be absorbed by the water and eaten by microbes or deteriorate in the sun. Make-up air for the grow room (to replace what the blower would be exhaling) could be drawn from earth tubes that are manifolded together underground. This has a couple of positives; first, that the incoming air would be tempered year round by a fairly constant subterranean soil temp. Second, that by drawing air from say 6 or 8 different intakes maybe 4-6" in diameter and remote from the grow room, the velocity and volume of air entering each tube would be significantly reduced, thereby eliminating the intake whoosh. A heat exchanging reclamation of sorts could be created as a separate loop for the light cooling water by running that water tubing through the make-up air earth tubes. The incoming air would pick up additional heat in the cold months and the water would cool in inverse proportion. The blowers are typically plumbed through 3-6" PVC so it wouldn't be too tough to pull an extra branch off of the plumbing to provide aeration for the nutrient/grow buckets and resevoirs. (see what kinda crazy shit weed makes ya think of)... Then there's the radiant hydronic heat for the grow room / building. Insulation under a concrete slab that has PEX tubing running back and forth all through it and connected to a water heater, a small boiler or solar panels. The concrete works like a giant thermal battery and the water carries the heat. Once the system is tempered and stabilized it's about the most efficient and comfortable heat available. Because you're heating objects and not the air the system doesn't have to cycle as frequently. The concrete will store a lot more heat energy than air can, and the heat is being transferred at a much lower point so that it does more good than hot air being blown up to pool near the ceiling. I'm thinking that what I believe is called a DWC system, with buckets of water sitting all over the floor, would benefit the most from this. They also make remodel systems that can be installed over existing wood or concrete floors. The cool part about circulating water or glycol systems is that when coupled with a geo-thermal loop the flow can be re-routed to the ground loop to help cool the slab during the hot months. Dew points and humidity can cause some condensation issues but this can be pretty well monitored and controlled with a dehumidifier, humidistat and fans. I haven't tried it yet as a grow light reflector but the foil faced bubble wrap that they sell for radiant water heating systems is pretty tough stuff. I don't have a need for it but it struck me that it would make a much better small grow chamber than some of the polyethylene sheeting and reflective tarp set-ups that I've seen. Might make a decent floor covering as well. Thought about applying Mylar to thin sheets of acrylic and then using the reflective panels to line the grow room walls by attaching Velcro strips to their back. If I need to reconfigure or make it all go away on short notice, the panels can be pulled off and moved pretty quickly. As fer the "Sea of Green"...well I guess I'm gonna need a deeper koi pond to swallow them up. Last but not least - I'm wonderin' if Yobama will give me a tax credit for makin' my med shed solar. The best way to avoid an attention grabbing electron bills is to simply keep yer shit off of the grid. If you don't try to store too much and live principally off of what you generate during the peak hours you can keep the PV system cost down initially and get by with just a mild increase in grid suck. They have been preachin' a shift to a new greener economy. How much greener can ya get than growin' da weed? __________________ "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) _________________ "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

07-12-2010, 09:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
Kompressor Voice of Reason Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 8,356 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3,063 Times in 1,633 Posts	All I can say Galt, I for one am impressed by you and your kids' ingenuity and innovation. Hope to hear much more from you. __________________ Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -H. Bergson

08-18-2010, 07:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,407 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	Nice post. They do make water cooling setups. But what if?!?!?!?!? __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

08-19-2010, 11:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Galt Si fecisti nega! Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: In the Great State of Denial Posts: 565 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 304 Thanked 316 Times in 208 Posts	Thought that the Peltiers were the way to go 'cuz they get so insanely cold. I moved away from the HPS/MH idea and am working with H.O. T-5 fluorescents in a sort of micro-grow. Still might be using the water cooling on the Fluoro ballasts if I can't get away with mounting them far enough away remotely. My buddy is working with me now to help me pare the watts down to a minimum and make this fandango a total or near total solar endeavor. He sees a lot more black helicopters in his dreams than I do...but of course he's never been busted either. __________________ "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) _________________ "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

08-19-2010, 12:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
Galt Si fecisti nega! Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: In the Great State of Denial Posts: 565 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 304 Thanked 316 Times in 208 Posts	I love that movie. Strikes a cord with my fuck authority attitude. Ultimately I'd like to be able to categorically deny the police State any probable cause bullshit for ever being on my property. If nothing illegal is observed entering or leaving, if there is no issue of heat signature or increased/unusual energy use, no odor, no noise, and no satellite/drone pictures, they've got no excuse for ever setting foot in my yard. Now if I can just think of an instant evidence destruction device that won't accidentally kill my high ass I'll be able to relax, smoke a dube and enjoy a frosty home brew in my little paranoia paradise. __________________ "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) _________________ "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

08-19-2010, 01:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
Galt Si fecisti nega! Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: In the Great State of Denial Posts: 565 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 304 Thanked 316 Times in 208 Posts	BTW....I'm Batman. __________________ "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) _________________ "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

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