Sugar420

well i got the idea to ask about this from Sweetsativa (thanx!)

i searched for any posts/threads about talking / singing to plants and couldnt come up with any. So, im just wondering if anybody here has any input on these questions:

is there really any benefit to talking to your plants beyond the co2 from your breath?

has anybody here personally tried any experiments like talking to one group of clones but ignoring another group from the same mother?

does anybody have any general comments about the idea of plants growing better if you fix your attention on them?

one time i had two little plants of the same stock that i kept seperate, and i talked to both of them, but to plant A i said "i love you! i am so proud of how you are growing! you are so beautiful..." and things like that. to plant B i said "you suck! im very dissapointed in you! dont even bother growing!" and things like that, but after a week of this i just couldnt keep it up and i apologized to the plant for being so horrible, and told it that i really did love her and was proud of her...
i never noticed any difference between the two, but then i guess my hating on plant B was fake from the start.
now i pretty much talk to and keep an attitude of love fixed on all the plants under my care, i dont kno if it makes any difference to the plants but it does to me
neway... Good Morning!

SweetSativa

There have been scientific tests done in regards to playing different types of music to plants. plants grow better if classical music is played to them. also, babies learn better under the same conditions.... Baroque period music. Actually quite fascinating.... I will post some links in a bit... REALLY amazing stuff! But then, if everything has a frequency... vibrates at a particular rate, it would stand to reason that specific vibrations in the atmosphere would be either beneficial or detrimental to any particular structure.... also has very specific effects on brainwaves.... maybe because we are all sort of interconnected... what effects one part of the system, also effects another.

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"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
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El Coyote

You girls really love your plants. Respect.

*goes outside to talk to his avocado tree*

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SweetSativa

Here are a couple of short essays:

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/press_office/media/media91.html



http://www.kuruvinda.com/health_music-2.html

Now, the thought occurs to me... do different types of plants (and perhaps even different strains of the same plant) like different types of music? What 'feels good' to one just about kills another?

*ss starts to dream about greenhouse experiments and predicts that by next year she will be able to put that dream into effect. Such a garden experimenter, I am.....

(winks at tazz11) hehe

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

germination

i play a lot of classical music because i play the violin and piano, but my plants are outside. If i ever grow indoors ill do some kind of test, and experiment if you will. im drinking right now. hey, i always talk to my plants and think to them. im sure thats why they are alive.thiey almost have personalities. i smoke pot. and weed too. and i can use smilies if i want to,. i forgot to have a 420 party i think im at 421 so everyone take a rip for old germ!

peace to everyone

ShareCropper

Wow V, that’s great stuff. I appreciate your attempts at your experiment and understand stand how hard it would be to tell a plant “You suck!” even when not meaning it. However, the cruel and analytical side of me would suggest or have suggested to record some abusive banter and play it in a loop to the plants to save you the discomfort of having to do it yourself. I’d give up and apologize too.
We all know positive encouragement and music help the plants. They help us don’t they. If not for that alone then definitely for the interconnected Oneness of everything like Sweet was sayin’. I’ve heard too that classical is supposed to give good results, I don’t understand how plants couldn’t do well hearing Marley or da Grateful Dead, but it’s probably for the previous reason that I think your plants will thrive if you play them music that you yourself like. If you hear it while you are working it will make you a happy worker and you’ll transfer that to the plants and they’ll grow up to be big, sweet, and sticky. I don’t have classical playin’, but I’ve got classic rock on, so I’m in the ball park, and the plants really are rockin’ on. But I’m thinking of changing it up for them soon – we get tired of the same stuff over and over, ya know, so I imagine they’d like a change of pace too. The music is on the whole light cycle then off for night time, the ladies need their beauty sleep.
So it’s a win-win for everyone. Hell, if you play music for them like Germ is planning I know they will grow better and start dancing, and spray you with their pleasant odor, like a skunk (haze). I digress but isn’t it great (except for the skunk) when you drive by
one that has been recently hit by a car or something and you are with people who don’t smoke our plant and everyone wines and complains but you just sit there, with a smile, and say it’s not so badJ.

Cheers, g’day, and top of the mornin’ to ya,
SC

SweetSativa

Interesting reply, Kosh. The best bud that we ever had (and we normally don't grow this particular herb... we grow lots of herbs but usually chamomile and that type of thing...hehe. Anyway, the best bud that we ever had was a very small girl who was growing in a hidden spot in the garden... but didn't really get enough water nor sun. I always felt bad for her but always seemed like she felt fine... she was small and everything but she was a dark green, healthy looking girl. She produced one large bud that was barely enough for my husband and i to enjoy one time. But i'll tell ya, that one time was awesome... very interesting high...


*be nice to plants

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

Sugar420

done and done!

the idea that grabs me most is a semi controlled study to see if there might be any significant difference between plants that have had the attention of human consciousness compared to plants that had automatic/mechanical watering, feeding, ect but were otherwise forgotten/ignored
Group A could be talked to, touched and caressed (i had not thought much about this Kosh) possibly prayed for, i dont kno, all the differnt ways a person could direct their consciousness towards the plants, group B get more "normal" care and group C just forgotten about in silence, maybe another group hearing recorded music...
well theres so many varibles, and i bet probably if there was some simple 'magic formula' that inspired the most healthy vigorous growth and yield, somebody would have already found it. personally i never would have guessed Meatloaf's Bat out of Hell would stimulate the most growth.
yes.
its the essential fundemental interconnected Oneness that leads me to believe that more important than fussing/obsessing with specific technical growing details is to cultivate in ourselves the basic attitudes of praise, gratefulness and love in all of our interactions with all living things.
becuz it sure seems to me that wether one gets crappy yield/potency or not depends largely on the attitude of the grower.

i'm beaming positive love-energy at all you guyz and all your plants too!

germination

classical during veg
rock n roll during budding

or how about

jaz during veg
classical during budding

classic rock during veg
gregorian chant during budding

SweetSativa

I know. The Meatloaf thing struck me too. So I got to thinking about it (also, wonder why they picked that particular album)... it's really heavily produced... heavy dynamics and such. Strange.... unless... maybe the experimenter just happened to love Meatloaf.

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

germination

someone should try putting a potted plant on top of some type of vibrating matt or box or something that has a low but constant vibration. i bet that would def. make the plant grow faster. im going to invent that. vibrating plates to grow weed on. and i'll make sticks that can go in the ground that vibrate. that would be cool.

i have an idea for hydro too. im not too familiar with hydro but ive seen a few setups and i always thought it would help to buy flat airstones that are used in fishtanks to give it more oxygen. just put the airstones on the bottom of the resevoir and get a few little pumps or one good one. i have an airstone that is 5" long and it puts out tons of little bubbles. you could probably even hook it up so that co2 gets pumped in once in a while too.

i got a fishtank a couple months ago and fish are pretty cool. i never really thought fish had much personality, but they are some crazy bastards! i have 3 black striped tetras but soon i can get whatever i want. this guy is gonna test the water for me to see if its good yet. i might just throw a seed in there and see what happens. i will grow underwaterweed. ha ah ah ah aha ha !

Sureshot

Personally, I think Sharecropper hit the nail on the head by saying happy workers, happy plants. In a positive environment we will work “better” and possibly for longer. IMHO that’s the most important affect music has on plant growth by far.

This is where my natural cynicism strikes.

In actual fact there have been very very few SCIENTIFIC studies regarding this subject at all, there is however an awful lot of pseudoscientific research available. Not all science is good science as an old professor used to say.

The studies done by Huxley (the brother of Aldous no less!!), Carlson, Locker and Retallack are the most commonly quoted on this subject but all suffer from some or all the negative aspects of bad practise, lack of control groups, poor variable control, lack of replication and/or unpublished actual data.

All of these studies intend to show how types of music from rock to classical to Indian sitar affect plant growth.

IMHO this is an absurd hypothesis. Plants do not have the ability to appreciate the quality of the music but only react to the real qualities of the sound produced, i.e. the vibrations/changes in air pressure that are caused in the production of sound.

No doubt that different kinds of music create different wave patterns and hence have different affects however as we do not understand the core process in this reaction we cannot ever hope to decide which music is best apart from in an anecdotal way.

The music itself contains too many variables.

The effect of a “song” could be due to any number of millions of variables within that “song”.

A more useful study would follow a more stepped approach.

The first thing we have to understand is whether sound, any sound, can affect a plant (on a general and then specific level) and if it does, how it does so. Only from there can more detail be built. The next step would be to try tonal variations, notes if you like, to see if there were any noticeable differences with responses to individual tones. This would have to be combined with studies into volume. Once we have a set of effective and non-effective notes and volumes these variables can begin to be simply combined until effective combinations begin to emerge, these combinations can then be built on to make effective and non effective patterns of combinations which can be further tested.

Only by building up step by step in this way can we ever have any true understanding in what is going on in the cause and effect.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not entirely adverse to the idea that music may have a positive affect on the growth rate of plants but I don’t think we yet have enough understanding of the variable itself.

We already know that plants can be affected by vibrations in their surrounding environments (be that caused by sound or touch) and that they can “respond” to this stimuli. This reaction is known as Seismonasty and has been closely studied in Mimosa Pudica (which rolls up it’s leaves…ironically in the context of this thread it’s reaction would be detrimental to plant growth because as we all know photosynthesis in leaves is the driving force for growth) and also in the various carnivorous plants (they don’t SEE their prey now do they!).

We also already know that the same vibrations may be used in a more focused way. Sternheimer has done some research involving reproducing vibrations caused in molecules during protein formation as tones and then stimulating the plants with these tones. There is some evidence that this enhanced the production of said protein.

This is the most interesting study I have yet to see as it implies that there would be a vibration caused by the production of florigen (the currently given name for the unidentified substance that causes a plant to flower) which we could then mimic with a tone/combination of tones to stimulate faster/more efficient production of this chemical. This in turn could lead to, for example, the ability to cut the length of the dark period in the photoperiod and hence have shorter flowering times.

If we got really clever we could even make an antisound for stretching.

It’s all a long long way away though and in my own personal opinion it is far far far more effective to gain a thorough understanding of the more tangible elements of our garden and optimise these rather than attempt to affix our plants with traits that they clearly do not and never will have, music appreciation. It’s all well and good to dream but IMO better to achieve results.

A well researched grow room run by someone with a good grounding in botany will consistently perform.

Whoever mentioned fundamental interconnectedness is right, but in this case it’s not a vague hippie cosmic link but rather controlling each variable in your grow environment so that they work perfectly together in harmony. The easiest example to give is people who use CO2 have hotter rooms and fert more, a change in one variable means a change in others too if you like.

Holistic gardening is always the best approach.

Incidentally, kosh, you know you mentioned rotating a plant? Did you mean once a day in order to replicate the sun rising and falling at opposite ends of the “sky”? If you did, I have a Californian hippie friend who believes very much in recreation of the outdoors indoors. He has tried both a modified light mover (one length of the track in a 12 hour light period) and a motor and pedestal to rotate the plant once in a twelve hour period with a mostly side lit rig. Neither produced any noticeable difference except perhaps more even secondary growth, although of course this fails my own test of not having a control group and so any observations are anecdotal.

Anyway,

Things to see people to do,

SS

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