[verklingen]

I'm merging the following discussion which I hope will help illustrate the utmost importance of self-improvement even against worldly affairs. Mods, please forgive coarse language in my opening paragraph.

Originally Posted by verklingen

Anyway, screw Petraeus, screw the troop surge, screw Iraq. I'm personally tired of hearing about all this bullshit. Every single person who has any opinion on any of this surely has an assload of things they could to do improve their lives and their self. None of them can do anything to improve what's going on in the world. None of us can make decisions that directly influence anything other than our own self, so just what the fuck is everyone doing worrying about everyone else? Wouldn't it be enough to fix ourselves before thinking about fixing the world? Is there even really a difference? Has anyone tried it?

/end rant.

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

I don't agree with this at all. EVERYONE can make a difference in the world. It's the fact that most people just don't give a shit and only care about their families and day to day lives. Think about it, some Joe-Schmoe in the US goes to work for 8 hours a day, comes home, tired and exhausted. They turn on the news and get "updated" (laugh) in the worlds current affairs, they make a few comments and have a few opinions, but when it comes down to it, they don't REALLY care that much.

Most people don't foresee the future as something tangible that they can have an immediate effect on. They don't see themselves as having anything to do with their country or the politics within it. They care about the next football game, they care about their next vacation, they care about having BBQ's and pretty much doing nothing. There are however, exceptions.

But let's be realistic, if something doesn't immediately effect them, they aren't going to give two shits. When you said " so just what the fuck is everyone doing worrying about everyone else? " - it did nothing but reiterate my thoughts on how sheepish the world has become. Hell, I'm only 24 but I know a lot more about real things that matter than some random 30 or 40 year old who was brought up by television.

It's those kind of negative ideas that make any real GOOD change in this world not even imaginable.

Be the change you want to see in the world, right? And waking up to the truth and showing it to others is the first step in that direction.

Originally Posted by verklingen

Right.

Here I disagree. First off, waking up to the "truth" isn't the only change you'd want to see in the world, is it? I'd like much more to see neighbors helping neighbors, friends giving friends what one needs and the other doesn't, businesses run with integrity, workers executing their jobs with integrity, etc. If "I" don't have integrity, why should I expect "you" to? It has to start somewhere, and evangelizing people to your views is the polar opposite of the proper first step.

I'm talking very generally of course, and maybe I've got my head in the clouds. But take Israel/Palestine for example. Despite an age-old conflict between these peoples, both want exactly the same thing: food, clothing, shelter, work, and peace for them and their children. Who do you think is going to start working toward that; the leaders of those people who have everything invested in the conflict? No, it starts "on the streets:" man to man, woman to woman, person to person.

So you're right to say that EVERYONE can make a difference in the world, but that difference starts with the self. When the people have integrity the world can't help but follow suit, even if your own personal expression of that integrity has little or no direct bearing upon those making the calls. No one has to agree with who did 911 or why we're in Iraq or any of that. We just have to agree to better ourselves, because when you have that people can't ignore it and can't deny they want what you have. No one envies another for his understanding of 911 or Middle East politics, but everyone wants something called "happiness." And you can have that despite whatever's going on in the world, and when someone notices it and asks how you got there, well, there's your first step.

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

I agree with some of what you said Verk.

You are right that change comes from within, because our world is a reflection of whats happening on the inside of us, (soul, consciousness, what have you). But if people are being fed lies, and being manipulated by the mass media, then how will people even come out of their shells? Let's face it, the majority of people in this world are not inclined to believe that the world is one, that we are all apart of the sameness. That we are all in fact, one. People are very divided, religion and other examples are there to show us this.

What I'm trying to get to is that we can't have people going around trying to make the world a better place when the higher ups are controlling major events and the currency in this world.

For example; you have an aquarium with 100 goldfish in it. All these fish want their dirty water to be cleaned and to be fed. Then you have the fish owner, who cleans and feeds his fish when he wants to. These fish can think as positive as they want and believe in the goodness of the world as much as they want, but the fact of the matter is, they aren't going to get their fish tank cleaned OR get fed if the owner will not do it.

We only have so much power alloted to us, but the power of the world citizens in contrast to the world governments FAR outweighs those in government/military. It's kind of a hard thing to grasp, but basically I'm saying we only have so much control over our lives. We are being led into the future by MIS-leaders. People are so lazy that it just doesn't matter to them. And if reincarnation is true, which I think is highly probable, then it's just going to be a vicious-never-ending cycle of NWO's and Globalists in power, with their little sheeple to nod and agree to whatever they say.