[Waves]

Originally Posted by tedkennedy

well obviously...

but there is alot of the old testament that reads simply like a history book. there were a shit load of different civilizations in the middle east from 3k bc- 1 ad and they were all fucking killing each other and shit.

the old testament and other old documents are the only sources we have. obviously we take them with a grain of salt and we either prove or disprove whatever we can by cross reference them with other sources as well as ancient artifacts.

Yeah i agree. taken with a grain of salt you can find alot of truth in the bible. as with any religous text that exists.

it has nothing to do with threat present and neutralized. it has to do with the fact that humans are like animals and like any animal they have a non-kin conflict of interest. every individual simply cares about his own genetic information. until you can have a weapon that allows you to easily kill an opponent without risk you have no reason whatsoever to communicate with non-kin because you are ultimately in competition for mates and resources. it is only until you have a weapon that can project co-ersive threat that you can set up an environment where humans work together for fear of being killed. would our society ever work if there werent police men with guns? quite frankly, NO.

this brings up some aspects of evolutionary theory that i personally disagree with. i dont think humans need to be ruled by fear, i dont think we need the ability to kill each other easily to get along. i think our environemtn has PROMOTED such behavior and i DO think that sometimes it ends up happening the way you describe, but not most of the time. why do people become social workers or why do people do volunteer work or why do people help at old people homes if they are only interested in passing on their genetic information? evolutionary theory just leaves out too much for me to agree with it.

im telling you , whether you agree or not, everything i said has been proven with strong fossil record evidence. im telling you, it is already proven.... we have the fossil record to prove it. after the atlatl was invented there was an adaptive stasis where humans were nothing but hunter gatherers for another hundred thousand years. then the bow was invented. then villages and city states rose. the idea of the nation didnt come around until about the period the gun was invented. is this a coincidence? .... im telling you waves... its already proven.

i dont think these things are coincidences at all, i think they fit in with the technology being developed at the time and the progress happening at the time. do you think if guns had never been invented we would have never invented the idea of a nation? no, we would still be living in geographical areas that we have created borders out of and labeled different things. we just needed to get to a point where we KNEW the environment enough to section it off into different areas that are labeled. before the gun came around we hadnt even populated the entire earth yet. simultaneously we had to get to a point where we KNEW our environment enough to take the materials in it and fashion them in specific ways to create a gun. it all fits together in a natural progression is what im arguing, military novelty is tied into that progress just like any other area of our lives, social, political, economical, etc. basically you are arguing that technological development is the result of response to threat. im saying technological advancement is a natural progression for a species, it would happen if a threat was there or not. another way to put it is, if humans never invented one single weapon to kill another person with we would still be advancing our technology and generating novelty. thats the point im trying to make.