[JainVeganBuddha]

right on. i see your point of view.

but let me ask you a few ?s.

are you eating meat currently?

would you yourself want to go through the experiences that the animals you (or others) are eating went through?

it seems to me those who are violent--directly or indirectly--are always hypocritical because no being desires to get hurt, abused, wounded, and killed. why do that when you can eat so many other things?

so nonviolence is a spiritual/moral principle--not a belief.

i will warn against excessive mental proliferation, because the mind can be used to justify any number of abominable things....like the intellectual philosophies of nazis, racists, various warmongers. rather heart and consciousness must guide.

i say meat-eating degrades the consciousness because aggression and consuming the hormones and vibes in the stuff--as well as doing the deeds of capturing, imprisoning, and killing shape the mind, dull subtle sensitivity, and give rise to rage and aggression. any young child would naturally be horrified by watching these acts. these acts cultivate brutality and killing. those who kill animals are much closer to killing other humans and prone to do so.

meditation/zen is all about clearing the mind of all these endless thoughts and rationalizations and seeing through to our original pure nature--which one will find is one of gentleness, respect for other life forms, and nonviolence. but excessive (conditioned) thoughts, language, and rationalizations dull this pure awareness.

so im not really addressing belief thats an endless issue. im talking about practice. with nonviolence all beings concerned win.

negative growth and development toward 'the dark side does occur. just consider that over the course of some people's life, some become more kind, wise, and enlightened, while some become more violent, mean, and aggressive/angry. we can guide this procees through our choices of lifestyle and association etc...

i dont feel im debasing others. it is all in how you take it. only one with a humble and open mind inclined toward increasing morality and also experimentation can learn and advance. i just realize that people do take time to learn grow and develop in stages...this process may even take many many lives in various forms.... but at the pinnacle of this development is the best that is found in this world: nonviolence toward all life forms; receiving subtle knowledge of the universe through meditation, purification, etc; non-possessiveness; silence and equanimity...and the other transcendental enlightened qualities that have been associated with the buddhas/jain teachers.

through this path of learning and association i have cultivated qualities of sensitivity and friendship toward all beings, understanding of oneness with ALL, skill in karmic navigation, and a distaste for violence in all its forms. i accept and respect those that have not accepted or come to that point, but only wish to share the subtle yet profound benefits of such with those interested. i guarantee every person, little creature, and animal that i help, befriend, set free, care for, spare the life of, give good vibes to...etc appreciates that.

i respect the gradual ascent, but how can i deny the profound universal truths of nonviolence and liberation?