Coco HOW TO?

[seaflo]

Please help me with this one; I would like to try Coco (I have never used Coco before) as the medium in some DWF drip containers (Waterfarms) and some soil-less container grows. I have always used clay pellets. But due to so much talk I have heard about Coco, I would appreciate if the folks here to lend their thoughts on this.

Is there an existing thread(s) I can reference on Coco grows (I searched but did not find one)?

Is Coco the best growing medium?

Is there a better Coco product to use than another?

What needs to be done differently (nutes, care, etc..) for the Coco?

Are there specific nutes that need to be used for optimum growing?

What about the Coco wetting agent? Are they necessary?

And I would like to know if we can process available coconut husks into usable medium from our trees.

I appreciate how helpful everyone is on this forum; thanks to all in advance.

[OldMan&TheWeed]

Go here:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65577

[seaflo]

Thanks MAN; this is what I was looking for. I would still like others to chime in on this. Thanks again.

[Pharm Girl]

CANNA-AU.com - Products

I've used this line, if only it wasn't so pricy, I'd use it all the time!

[seaflo]

Thanks Girl; I have been looking at the Cana line but you are right, very pricey. I have also yet to fully understand what the real differences are, from the nute and feeding schedule practices, that are required when using Coco.

I would rather use organics in the grow and like to get someone, who has been doing it for a while, to lend their recipe and procedure that has been successful for them.

I also like the fact that Coco is being talked and used more as a growing medium as it can help sustain some countries who are in need. There are so many islands in the carib that have no top soil and their ability to maintain any agriculture interests is quite limited. There are growing efforts here to develop agricultural production, not only to sustain their own needs but exporting as well. Most island nations currently are 90 to 100% dependent on foreign sources for their energy needs and, on an average, 75% of their own citizen's food (not including the tourists demands). I see thousands of coconut husks and old coconuts lying on the ground or at the landfills and see another unused resource.

Thanks again Girl for the help.

[seaflo]

I would appreciate hearing from those here on their experiences using Coco indoors (instead of soil) in a hand-watering type container. I have researched a lot in CC's forum but there are just too many conflicting ideas and opinions floating around; also I would rather stay here rather than bouncing around. I think it would be a good idea to have a separate thread on just how to and how to be productive using Coco. IMO. Thanks to all that help or even look.

[farmergiles]

Man I`m interested too but as yet have no experience with Coco. It looks like an amazing medium, the advantages of soil and rockwool combined. I`m looking for at alternatives to soil atm.

Anyway cheers for starting this thread, I`ll be watching here too to see if any good info comes up.

[seaflo]

Thanks Farmer. I am experimenting with making organic ferts from local vegetation that the locals have told me works. I am also researching how to process the husks for use as a growing medium. I am very stoked about using it because, from what I have heard, Coco works well and it seems to be one of the most sustainable resources for growing mediums.

[stoneric]

Wasn't coco talked about in another thread here? I remember Smallarmsfire talking about Coco being the medium in the final pot when re-potting. I can't remember the thread. Maybe Farmergiles can.

[seaflo]

Thanks Stoneric; if anyone knows more please let me know.

[farmergiles]

From what I can gather some coco`s are unbuffered so need the buffering agent added (I think this is the same as the wetting agent) to be able to take up nutrients properly. Others are prebuffered. Some manufacturers recommend coco specific tailored nutrients, others claim any liquid feed can be used.
plagron
canna-uk.com/coco

Can`t find that post Stoneric- maybe it has been deleted but part of it is quoted

for the final pot-up (somewhere around pre/flowering) we'd use mostly coco as it will allow for better exchange of P & K. you get to use less bloom ferts & you're essentially flushing your salt buildups everytime you water. just gotta water more often than humus builds..

I have some questions also. Apparently you can recirculate from drainage or drain to waste. I suppose for best results you`d want to monitor pH and Ec, also you`d probably want to aerate with an air stone and control the temp? Or if you were going with drain to waste could you essentially use the same methods as watering soil?

[OldMan&TheWeed]

I think you will find that coco is the best medium to grow in. It has all the benefits of hydro combined with the ease of soil. It’s a very forgiving medium. You can’t over-water it, if your away for a couple of days your plants will survive, and it can be reused.

Canna is a good line, especially for the coco itself, but don't get trapped into believing that all the labels on your bottles and bags have to match in order to have the benefits of coco. If you want to save yourself some money don't be afraid to use ferts from other companies. Just as good results can be derived from CNS-17, Flora Nova, or ANY other hydroponics fertilizer as you can get from Canna A&B. There are no special nutritional needs of plants grown in rockwool or clay pellets etc. than there are in coco. If you are going to be reusing your coco than you will be needing to use enzymes. Cannazym is good, but any of the other enzyme brands will work just as well. The same goes for PK 13/14. Any other PK booster given at the appropriate time will yield the same results. And yes, Rhizotonic works, of course it does, it contains Indolebutyric Acid (IBA), a natural plant hormone that’s the active ingredient of many commercial rooting products. You can pay 35 bucks a bottle, or you can try the real thing by making a batch of “willow water.” The instructions are all over the internet. Now let’s talk about Canna’s big moneymaker: Cannaboost. Canna claims that:

“CANNABOOST is CANNA’s powerful flowering stimulator. Specially developed for fast growing plants, it improves quality and increases yields. CANNABOOST stimulates the development of newly formed flowers which ultimately results in fuller fruits. This also leads to a more homogeneous harvest because the fruits mature evenly. Something very special about CANNABOOST is that it does not only assure excellent yields, but also better taste, a little something extra for the CANNA grower.”

They also sell an organicly derived version of the same product called BioBoost, which claims: “Bio Boost - is a natural fermented plant extract that stimulates bloom increases, productivity and improves taste.”

All true! But why pay 100 bucks per liter for something that you can brew yourself at home for about one dollar? What is the secret ingredient that, “stimulates bloom increases, productivity and improves taste?” It’s the plant hormone Triacontanol which raises plant yield by improving photosynthesis and cell division. Triacontanol is VERY potent stuff. For about eight bucks you can buy a gram of the stuff on the internet, enough to make about 40 liters of boost. Or if you want to go the organic route, you can make your own Bioboost, which is nothing more than alfalfa fertilizer tea! That’s right alfalfa is a great natural source of organic triacontanol. Don’t believe me? Just google it.

Have fun, but don’t go broke.

[seaflo]

Old man; great info. I have seen many posts on other forums and through the net that say Coco is an active medium and has particulars that must be rigorously observed/monitored. I am just going to jump in and try it. I plan on having 8L pots with a 4 to 1 mix of perlite and coco. I will pre-treat the coco with CalMag and PHed RO water (5.6 - 5.8). I am placing hydroton in the bottom of the pots for drainage. I have a few clones ready to go in. I am using Weedhound's nute recipe and schedule (the one posted on Cannabis.com's forum, which has been down for over a week; anyone know what's up?).
I cannot afford to buy new nutes now so I am using the PBP, ST, CalMag, H2O2 3%, LK & Hygrozyme. I will place them under CFLs for veg.
There seems to be a varied way to check PH in Coco; some say use the runoff and others say to test at roots w/ soil probe. Old Man what do you suggest?

[OldMan&TheWeed]

Originally Posted by seaflo

Old man; great info. I have seen many posts on other forums and through the net that say Coco is an active medium and has particulars that must be rigorously observed/monitored. I am just going to jump in and try it. I plan on having 8L pots with a 4 to 1 mix of perlite and coco. I will pre-treat the coco with CalMag and PHed RO water (5.6 - 5.8). I am placing hydroton in the bottom of the pots for drainage. I have a few clones ready to go in. I am using Weedhound's nute recipe and schedule (the one posted on Cannabis.com's forum, which has been down for over a week; anyone know what's up?).
I cannot afford to buy new nutes now so I am using the PBP, ST, CalMag, H2O2 3%, LK & Hygrozyme. I will place them under CFLs for veg.
There seems to be a varied way to check PH in Coco; some say use the runoff and others say to test at roots w/ soil probe. Old Man what do you suggest?

My Comments:

"Coco is an active medium and has particulars that must be rigorously observed/monitored"
Actually, it's easier to manage than soil.

"I will pre-treat the coco with CalMag"
It won't do any harm, but it's not needed if your ferts are any good.

"I am using Weedhound's nute recipe. . .I cannot afford to buy new nutes now."
You'd probably do better with store-bought nutes. We're talking less than thirty bucks for Flora Nova, which will probably last you more than one cycle. Start out at 1/2 strength and slowly increase the strength. Pay attention to you tomato plants.

"There seems to be a varied way to check PH in Coco; some say use the runoff and others say to test at roots w/ soil probe."
Ignore the runoff. As long as your nutes are properly PH'd, you'll have no problem.

Remember, coco is not soil. You must water it every day with properly PD'd nute solution with AT LEAST 10% run off and you'll be good to go.

Good luck with those tomatos.

[stoneric]

I was reading somewhere where a grower said simplicity was the key when using coco. His mix consisted of a 10 liter pot lined with newspaper on the bottom with 3/4 of an inch of perlite on top of that. Fill the pot to 1 inch from the top of the pot with canna. For nutes use canna a+b until flowering and you can't go wrong. He didn't say how often he fed or what to use during flower. I'm getting the impression people use nutes everytime they water.

[OldMan&TheWeed]

Originally Posted by stoneric

I was reading somewhere where a grower said simplicity was the key when using coco. His mix consisted of a 10 liter pot lined with newspaper on the bottom with 3/4 of an inch of perlite on top of that. Fill the pot to 1 inch from the top of the pot with canna.

It can be even simpler than that. It should read: "His mix consisted of a 10 liter pot filled with canna coco."

Originally Posted by stoneric

I'm getting the impression people use nutes everytime they water.

Yes, you give nutes with your water every time up until you flush.

The two biggest mistakes coco growers make are they over nute the water and they don't PH the solution.

Keep it simple, stick to what you know works, and you can't go wrong.

[Dandaweedman]

And I have read that advanced nutrients has something that will allow you to make the coco better than just plain peat n perlite.
As it is it ain't, well not really.

Coco Coir is a fantastic new root zone media made from spun coconut hulls, but it won’t do you any good if you use regular hydroponics fertilizers with it.

You can’t use regular hydroponics fertilizer in coco coir and get good results. That’s because coco coir has unique chemical properties and water-holding characteristics that negatively interact with fertilizers designed for other hydroponics root zone media.

More and more growers are finding out that using Advanced Nutrients Monkey Juice Grow is the only way to properly fertilize vegetative phase plants growing in coco coir hydroponics gardens.

Coco coir is superior to most other types of root zone media and helps plants grow faster and produce larger yields. It lasts longer than rockwool and other root media. Using coco coir saves you money on hydroponics root zone media.
MONKEY
JUICE GROW

· Prevents Coco Toxicity

· Makes Super-Fast Veg Phase Growth

· Guaranteed THE best Coir Fertilizer






But if you use regular hydroponics fertilizers in coco coir gardens, you will see decreased growth rates and small harvest size. Coco “locks up” some nutrients while over-releasing others.

It has to be properly fertilized and pH- balanced or it can skew nutrient availability so plants grow slowly and produce less.

That’s why smart growers are glad Advanced Nutrients did relentless coco coir research to design two-part Monkey Juice Grow so it maximized the benefits of coco coir.

In extreme cases, plants grown with the wrong hydroponics fertilizer in coco coir may sicken and die. But there’s good news: using Monkey Juice Grow maximizes the value of coco coir and ensures fast, strong growth and short internodes.

[farmergiles]

Any idea of the pro`s and cons?

My main thought was that coco would be less hassle than carting loads of soil around.
Also because (apparently) it`s difficult to overwater that it might lend itself to some kind of auto watering recirculating set up.

[OldMan&TheWeed]

Quote:
Coco Coir is a fantastic new root zone media made from spun coconut hulls, but it won’t do you any good if you use regular hydroponics fertilizers with it.

You can’t use regular hydroponics fertilizer in coco coir and get good results.(BULLSHIT) That’s because coco coir has unique chemical properties and water-holding characteristics that negatively interact with fertilizers designed for other hydroponics root zone media. (BULLSHIT)

More and more growers are finding out that using Advanced Nutrients Monkey Juice Grow is the only way to properly fertilize vegetative phase plants growing in coco coir hydroponics gardens. (BULLSHIT)

Coco coir is superior to most other types of root zone media and helps plants grow faster and produce larger yields. It lasts longer than rockwool and other root media. Using coco coir saves you money on hydroponics root zone media. (TRUE)
MONKEY
JUICE GROW

· Prevents Coco Toxicity (WTF?)

· Makes Super-Fast Veg Phase Growth (SAME AS ALL THE OTHERS)

· Guaranteed THE best Coir Fertilizer (Except for all those bad batches last year)






But if you use regular hydroponics fertilizers in coco coir gardens, you will see decreased growth rates and small harvest size. Coco “locks up” some nutrients while over-releasing others. (BULLSHIT)

It has to be properly fertilized and pH- balanced or it can skew nutrient availability so plants grow slowly and produce less. (You've got to PH your nutes no matter which you use)

That’s why smart growers are glad Advanced Nutrients did relentless coco coir research to design two-part Monkey Juice Grow so it maximized the benefits of coco coir. (It's a bad copy of Canna)

In extreme cases, plants grown with the wrong hydroponics fertilizer in coco coir may sicken and die. (BULLSHIT) But there’s good news: using Monkey Juice Grow maximizes the value of coco coir and ensures fast, strong growth and short internodes. (BULLSHIT)

[OldMan&TheWeed]

The need for Coco specific nutrients are marginal and exaggerated by nutrient manufacturers. I'll give you an example with a hilarious text posted by Advanced Nutrients (on their web site) on Monkey Juice - that gets it more or less all wrong:

http://www.advancednutrients.com/lan...B_landing.html


"Coco Coir is a fantastic new root zone media made from spun coconut hulls, but it won’t do you any good if you use regular hydroponics fertilizers with it."

-Oh yes you can, total bullshit.

"You can’t use regular hydroponics fertilizer in coco coir and get good results. That’s because coco coir has unique chemical properties and water-holding characteristics that cause problems with regular fertilizers."

-Aha. So why does a non-coco specific nutrient outperform your coco specific nutrient?

"... if you use regular hydroponics fertilizers in coco coir gardens, you’ll get decreased growth rates and smaller harvest size. Coco “locks up” some nutrients while over-releasing others. It has to be properly fertilized and pH- balanced or it can skew nutrient availability so plants grow slowly and produce less."

-Let's take a look at what Advanced Nutrients claims.

The "unique chemical properties" AN mentions refers to the Cation Exchange Capacity of the coco fibers. Cations are positively charged ions (An ion is an atom or molecule which has lost or gained one or more valence electrons, giving it a positive or negative electrical charge.), such as Calcium, Magnesium and Potassium. The grow medium (coco coir) will hold these ions in a matrix, releasing them as absorbed by plants. The thing is, until the CEC of the growing media is filled, the growing media may hold positively charged nutrient ions, most notably calcium, in reserve, making them less available to plants.

Coco 'specific' nutrients therefore tend to have elevated levels of calcium and magnesium while having lower levels of nitrogen.

Nevertheless, this is not such a big deal. Plant science shows that plants - when ion uptake of a certain nutrient decreases - increases its efforts in assimilating a particular nutrient, and therefore to a certain extent compensate for the loss.

Also, the CEC of the coir media is quickly filled, and actually assists Ca absorption during flower. Some additional Ca/Mg or the right kind of bat Guano mixed into the coir media in the initial phase of veg is all it takes if the CEC is low.
But manufacturers of coco coir have thought of this problem, and nowadays, most high quality coco coir have been chemically pre-treated to satisfy the CEC of the growing media. With other words, the problem has been solved right from the start.

What does AN refer to when it talks about "coco's unique water holding characteristics causing problems with the uptake of regular hydroponic nutrients"? Maybe one of their hotshot PhD's can get online and explain that one.

The unique water holding capacities of coco coir refers to its particular fiber structure. Compared to for instance peat, the coconut fibers are tougher and coarser, which means that more airspace is available for drainage and to supply the root zone with higher levels of atmospheric oxygen (O2). Still, it can absorb eight or nine times its own weight of water, and is immedaitely absorbing, even in a completely dry state.

How the coco will react to regular hydroponic nutrients depends on the composition of the nutrient and the quality/mineral content of the water.

"More and more growers are finding out that using Advanced Nutrients Monkey Juice Bloom is the only way to properly fertilize blooming plants in coco coir hydroponics gardens"

-That's a bold statement, claiming that Monkey Juice is the "only way to properly fertilize blooming plants in coco coir".

Do they have any REAL science to back up their sales pitch?