Faith or Denial?

The Rev · 06-20-2008, 07:59 PM

When does Faith become Denial?

If a person were binge drinking daily, getting DUI's, lost their job because of lost days due to drinking, etc. you'd reasonably conclude that they were an alcoholic, right? If they said, "No, I'm not." you'd tell them they were in denial. Why? Overwhelming evidence to the contrary of their belief.

What about evolution? We've actually seen bacteria evolve, as in the case of the recent development of anti-biotic resistant bugs. There is an amazingly consistent, if not totally complete fossil record. The relationship of species to one another is pretty apparent. So, what do you say to someone who refuses to accept it in favor of a contrary accounting in an ancient book? They would say they have faith in the Word of God.

I would say they were in denial, just like the alcoholic. With overwhelming evidence contradicting what they believe, it is just plain old denial.

Now, I wouln't say ALL faith is denial. If one believes that the Universe is a product of a Creator, that is a leap of faith. There are good arguments both ways. The evidence is too incomplete to make an absolute judgement one way or the other.

But to use faith as a catch-all to deny reality really does a disservice to that Creator should He exist. After all, what is real is real, and if it's created by God, then you have to respect it as you respect Him.

The Rev

JcP · 06-20-2008, 09:16 PM

I agree with most of what you're saying, but:

what you think and what the person you're 'judging' thinks are two different things. You can think someone is in denial who is anything but, and vice versa.

for instance, a "delusion" is very real to the person experiencing it. As real as the keyboard in front of me. It's only through our obsession for external justification and validation that we deny experiences or intuition as such. Your recent mushroom trip, for instance, would be called a hallucination and untrue by most outsiders...but I would think you'd have an issue with the belief that what you experienced wasn't real, no?

The Rev · 06-21-2008, 08:53 PM

Would you say, then, that the example I gave of the alcoholic is a guy who, if he said, "I know I'm not an alcoholic. I have faith that I am not." would be someone with a valid point? As much as the person who could see the damage he was doing to himself?

The Rev

highanddry · 06-22-2008, 12:55 AM

[QUOTEWhen does Faith become Denial?
[/quote] Always, and inherently.

06-20-2008, 07:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
The Rev ~ Herban Legend ~ Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 11,877 Thanks: 18 Thanked 161 Times in 94 Posts	Faith or Denial? When does Faith become Denial? If a person were binge drinking daily, getting DUI's, lost their job because of lost days due to drinking, etc. you'd reasonably conclude that they were an alcoholic, right? If they said, "No, I'm not." you'd tell them they were in denial. Why? Overwhelming evidence to the contrary of their belief. What about evolution? We've actually seen bacteria evolve, as in the case of the recent development of anti-biotic resistant bugs. There is an amazingly consistent, if not totally complete fossil record. The relationship of species to one another is pretty apparent. So, what do you say to someone who refuses to accept it in favor of a contrary accounting in an ancient book? They would say they have faith in the Word of God. I would say they were in denial, just like the alcoholic. With overwhelming evidence contradicting what they believe, it is just plain old denial. Now, I wouln't say ALL faith is denial. If one believes that the Universe is a product of a Creator, that is a leap of faith. There are good arguments both ways. The evidence is too incomplete to make an absolute judgement one way or the other. But to use faith as a catch-all to deny reality really does a disservice to that Creator should He exist. After all, what is real is real, and if it's created by God, then you have to respect it as you respect Him. The Rev __________________ THE SECRET OF SUCCESS IN ALL THINGS IS A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP WITH REALITY DISRESPECT INCORPORATED The Order of the Illuminati "Jesus, I've just realised I've been posting on yahooka for more than a quarter of my life!" -Sir-Ex R.I.P. Governor We know you're smokin wherever you are.

06-21-2008, 08:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
The Rev ~ Herban Legend ~ Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 11,877 Thanks: 18 Thanked 161 Times in 94 Posts	Would you say, then, that the example I gave of the alcoholic is a guy who, if he said, "I know I'm not an alcoholic. I have faith that I am not." would be someone with a valid point? As much as the person who could see the damage he was doing to himself? The Rev __________________ THE SECRET OF SUCCESS IN ALL THINGS IS A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP WITH REALITY DISRESPECT INCORPORATED The Order of the Illuminati "Jesus, I've just realised I've been posting on yahooka for more than a quarter of my life!" -Sir-Ex R.I.P. Governor We know you're smokin wherever you are.

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06-22-2008, 12:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
highanddry YaHookan Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 706 Thanks: 63 Thanked 54 Times in 37 Posts	[QUOTEWhen does Faith become Denial? [/quote] Always, and inherently.

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