Does this seem logical?

Mescalito · 07-11-2008, 12:58 AM

Before we first saw the 'physical' world.. we were dreaming.

...I'm thinking about the time when we lived in the womb.

M

JcP · 07-11-2008, 03:57 AM

interesting question. I wonder if we see literally first (IE the wall of the womb), or if we dream first (see things before literally seeing the wall of the womb).

I don't know the answer. Anyone a doctor in here know if babies dream before they have eyes?

verklingen · 07-11-2008, 08:13 AM

newborns spend as much as 50% of their sleep time dreaming, which is to say they exhibit brainwaves associated with dreaming for 50% of the time they are sleeping. as they grow they spend less and less time dreaming. it's not bulletproof but it seems at least roughly safe to assume that this trend might work backwards as well, with the infant dreaming pretty much all of the time as it approaches viability (32 weeks i believe?) and from then beginning to dream less and less (they're not sleeping all the time you know, little buggers can get fairly active in the final trimester). it was interesting to learn that kittens dream the entire time they are sleeping.

i've thought about this a lot, and always considered your proposal to be true. . . i guess you could say because it always seemed logical enough to me. in the warm darkness of the uterus, did we even realize a difference between dreaming and not dreaming, between sleeping and waking? until someone who remembers can refute it, i would imagine not. i also imagine that such a state might not be completely unlike what we call death. who knows what we conjured up in there, left to ourselves to be the entire width, breadth, and depth of existence.

JcP · 07-11-2008, 08:24 AM

I wonder what we dream about if we don't have a vocabulary to create from. Like...when I dream I see people, colors, buildings, whatever the case may be.

What would my dreams be if I didn't know of any of this? Obviously this is assuming we are just born without any sort of past-lives or anything else.

Or what do blind people dream? Anyway, cool. This thread has delivered for me.

The Rev · 07-11-2008, 08:38 PM

Fetuses dream about the same thing big boys dream about, just for different reasons...

The Rev

Smaerd · 07-11-2008, 11:44 PM

I would say we are in a state of dream before the womb. A dream is the free seperation of possibility detached from reality. Thus a realm in which one can understand it's connectivity to nothing, and everything. Though before birth it is hard to consciously express these "dreams".

CoPilot Katie · 07-12-2008, 04:00 PM

i personally think we need to loose the connotations on these words... because i beleive that we are more or less dreaming in life. When we see something, we dont see with our eyes, the images are stored in the memory and then retrieved again before we know what we "saw". reality is created by our thoughts... so what we see could be thought of as a dream because in most cases, people do not beleive that they have power over the outside world. That "reality" exists without our input and therefore go about their lives rather unconsciously and could be considered in some cases dreaming.

Plus. A baby in or out of the womb has yet to be conditioned for survival and is using more of senses than a grown human. It would be the equivalent of tripping.

reverie · 07-14-2008, 04:17 PM

It offers an interesting perspective on the idea of "Intuition" or feeling.

MaliciousDoll · 07-15-2008, 07:31 PM

what thoughts to deaf people have if they've never heard a voice O_o

Smaerd · 07-15-2008, 11:01 PM

What thoughts do we have as those who have "heard". Similiar to asking someone who has never tried a hallucinogen what it's like to live without that experiance.

This is a matter of reality, which is based on perception, which is based on memory(and the associations of memory), and experiance(taste,tou ch,smell,feel,hear,e tc).

Reality has everything to do with living in a constant state of dream with differing consiousness, until the consious life has ended. Then experiance, and memory are meaningless.

The way I see it is there is Live Reality, and the Ultimate Reality. Live reality is what we experiance in this flash of a life span(think about your child-hood, yep it just got summed up in a flash). Ultimate Reality is that we are all created of infinite energy surrounded by mostly nothing and we hold no bounds, so our energy must then be displaced to every possible existance of being. Hence why when observed energy acts in a linear matter, however when Un-observed energy is an infinite wave of potentials. Observation limits reality(based on supposed physical existence in the rhierarchy of infinity we "live" in currently) and summates everything we experiance as a function of infinity to further try and construct infinity.We are the logic error of fundamental mathematics.

Shaggy_420 · 07-16-2008, 12:35 AM

what does a mute,blind and deaf person think about?
how do they go through with living if they cant interact in any way with whats around them
are theese those "mole people" i keep hearing about?
if they are deaf can they hear about the mole people i hear about?

MaliciousDoll · 07-16-2008, 02:49 PM

ok yeah i messed up what i was trying to ask i guess. In what language to deaf people think if they've never heard a voice. if u want me to specify more ask

espiex · 07-17-2008, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy_420

are theese those "mole people" i keep hearing about?
if they are deaf can they hear about the mole people i hear about?

Shaggy_420 · 07-17-2008, 01:37 AM

Vik*star* · 07-17-2008, 09:47 AM

You remember what happend in your dream as long as you are in the dream; as soon as you come out of dream ie you wake up, the details starts fading and fading. But there's one exception (atleast wiv me): If I have a dream that seems to convey an important message or is related to something depressing in my life; I don't usually forget it and sometimes it's as real part of my life as my real events in life....

Also when I get extremely stoned (skunk) or psychedelics , I can't really tell the difference between dreaming and real life. Real life seems to be as much of a dream as any dream you have.

I donno about prebirth but I can tell when I am dreaming, psychedelics, other altered states, I still remain I. Memories may fade (usually long term memories are enhanced), hands might go numb or whateva, consciousness still remains the same. What I mean is altered state of consciousness supports after life consciousness hypothesis as according to materialist position, your brain creates "I". When you fuck up your brain ie altered states; this "I" should be fucked up as well but "I" remains the same. You still view hallucinations as first person.

Greg Stone - A critique of Susan Blackmore and the dying brain hypothesis

So after death, you wake up somewhere and wonder What the fuck was that....

Oh yeah, scientists do say that babies dream like more than 50% of time. What do they dream about: I remember I used to dream about ladies...

Shaggy_420 · 07-18-2008, 12:25 AM

you kick when your still in the womb because your dreaming about cockroaches climbing up your legs

even unborn fetuses hate cockroaches

MaliciousDoll · 07-19-2008, 09:07 AM

haha oh rly. but babies have never seen cockroaches, all a baby has ever seen is the inside of a womb, i mean logically thats all they dream about wombs right? or darkness since theres no light in there, its like when ppl say they didnt dream i guess right?

MaliciousDoll · 07-19-2008, 09:09 AM

yeah, it is hard to differentiate the reality from a dream when you'e high, thats one of my favorite things about herbs ^_^

Smaerd · 07-19-2008, 11:25 AM

I thought about this idea last night before I fell asleep. Kind of creeped me out. Like when we're "alive" we hold no real remembrance of when we're asleep. And when we're asleep we hold no real remembrance of when we're asleep.

Quote:

A Dream Within A Dream

Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow-
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand-
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep- while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?

Edgar Allan Poe

Blows me away, these thoughts have been around for YEARSSS. Think about how many dreams we could potentials be in. And what does that even mean....

Mescalito · 07-19-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Like when we're "alive" we hold no real remembrance of when we're asleep. And when we're asleep we hold no real remembrance of when we're asleep.

You are not serious are you?

M

07-11-2008, 12:58 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mescalito Land of Smiles Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 5,519 Thanks: 28 Thanked 38 Times in 25 Posts	Does this seem logical? Before we first saw the 'physical' world.. we were dreaming. ...I'm thinking about the time when we lived in the womb. M

07-11-2008, 08:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
verklingen what is Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: in the sun Posts: 5,711 Thanks: 207 Thanked 515 Times in 302 Posts	newborns spend as much as 50% of their sleep time dreaming, which is to say they exhibit brainwaves associated with dreaming for 50% of the time they are sleeping. as they grow they spend less and less time dreaming. it's not bulletproof but it seems at least roughly safe to assume that this trend might work backwards as well, with the infant dreaming pretty much all of the time as it approaches viability (32 weeks i believe?) and from then beginning to dream less and less (they're not sleeping all the time you know, little buggers can get fairly active in the final trimester). it was interesting to learn that kittens dream the entire time they are sleeping. i've thought about this a lot, and always considered your proposal to be true. . . i guess you could say because it always seemed logical enough to me. in the warm darkness of the uterus, did we even realize a difference between dreaming and not dreaming, between sleeping and waking? until someone who remembers can refute it, i would imagine not. i also imagine that such a state might not be completely unlike what we call death. who knows what we conjured up in there, left to ourselves to be the entire width, breadth, and depth of existence. __________________ you can't explain the rules of tennis to a dog, but he runs after it and plays with it...like the dog playing with the ball, we don't have the necessary tools needed to interpret the afterlife..until we get there, then a whole new universe is given to us. Perhaps 200 billion light years away, there's the next phase of our existance..Remember you cannot destroy energy, which is all we are... -matthew munari rip matt

07-11-2008, 08:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
The Rev ~ Herban Legend ~ Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 11,877 Thanks: 18 Thanked 161 Times in 94 Posts	Fetuses dream about the same thing big boys dream about, just for different reasons... The Rev __________________ THE SECRET OF SUCCESS IN ALL THINGS IS A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP WITH REALITY DISRESPECT INCORPORATED The Order of the Illuminati "Jesus, I've just realised I've been posting on yahooka for more than a quarter of my life!" -Sir-Ex R.I.P. Governor We know you're smokin wherever you are.

07-11-2008, 11:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
Smaerd observations kill me Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vagrant Status Posts: 1,975 Thanks: 251 Thanked 316 Times in 232 Posts	I would say we are in a state of dream before the womb. A dream is the free seperation of possibility detached from reality. Thus a realm in which one can understand it's connectivity to nothing, and everything. Though before birth it is hard to consciously express these "dreams". __________________ Peace, Love, Unity, Respect.

07-12-2008, 04:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
CoPilot Katie shaman Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: my mind Posts: 108 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	i personally think we need to loose the connotations on these words... because i beleive that we are more or less dreaming in life. When we see something, we dont see with our eyes, the images are stored in the memory and then retrieved again before we know what we "saw". reality is created by our thoughts... so what we see could be thought of as a dream because in most cases, people do not beleive that they have power over the outside world. That "reality" exists without our input and therefore go about their lives rather unconsciously and could be considered in some cases dreaming. Plus. A baby in or out of the womb has yet to be conditioned for survival and is using more of senses than a grown human. It would be the equivalent of tripping. __________________ "you can be scared if it gets to real, but you should be diggin it while it's happenin" Life is a test. Had this been a real life, you would have been shown where to go and what to do.

07-14-2008, 04:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
reverie alis aquilae Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 1,724 Thanks: 7 Thanked 18 Times in 16 Posts	It offers an interesting perspective on the idea of "Intuition" or feeling. __________________ "For thought is a bird of space, that in a cage of words may indeed unfold its wings but cannot fly." -Gibran "There is a vital difference in identifying and questioning." -ziplock dissolve popular detachment

07-15-2008, 07:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
MaliciousDoll LB Stoner Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Long Beach Posts: 17 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	what thoughts to deaf people have if they've never heard a voice O_o

07-15-2008, 11:01 PM	#10 (permalink)
Smaerd observations kill me Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vagrant Status Posts: 1,975 Thanks: 251 Thanked 316 Times in 232 Posts	What thoughts do we have as those who have "heard". Similiar to asking someone who has never tried a hallucinogen what it's like to live without that experiance. This is a matter of reality, which is based on perception, which is based on memory(and the associations of memory), and experiance(taste,tou ch,smell,feel,hear,e tc). Reality has everything to do with living in a constant state of dream with differing consiousness, until the consious life has ended. Then experiance, and memory are meaningless. The way I see it is there is Live Reality, and the Ultimate Reality. Live reality is what we experiance in this flash of a life span(think about your child-hood, yep it just got summed up in a flash). Ultimate Reality is that we are all created of infinite energy surrounded by mostly nothing and we hold no bounds, so our energy must then be displaced to every possible existance of being. Hence why when observed energy acts in a linear matter, however when Un-observed energy is an infinite wave of potentials. Observation limits reality(based on supposed physical existence in the rhierarchy of infinity we "live" in currently) and summates everything we experiance as a function of infinity to further try and construct infinity.We are the logic error of fundamental mathematics. __________________ Peace, Love, Unity, Respect. Last edited by Smaerd; 07-15-2008 at 11:22 PM.

07-16-2008, 12:35 AM	#11 (permalink)
Shaggy_420 Marijuana Consumer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NV Posts: 876 Thanks: 203 Thanked 69 Times in 37 Posts	what does a mute,blind and deaf person think about? how do they go through with living if they cant interact in any way with whats around them are theese those "mole people" i keep hearing about? if they are deaf can they hear about the mole people i hear about? __________________ "Penalties against the possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself... Nowhere is this more clear to me than in the laws against possession of marijuana... Therefore, I support legislation amending federal law to eliminate all federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to 1 oz. of marijuana." - Jimmy Carter, Former President & Nobel Peace Prize Winner

07-16-2008, 02:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
MaliciousDoll LB Stoner Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Long Beach Posts: 17 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	ok yeah i messed up what i was trying to ask i guess. In what language to deaf people think if they've never heard a voice. if u want me to specify more ask

07-17-2008, 01:37 AM	#14 (permalink)
Shaggy_420 Marijuana Consumer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NV Posts: 876 Thanks: 203 Thanked 69 Times in 37 Posts	lmao __________________ "Penalties against the possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself... Nowhere is this more clear to me than in the laws against possession of marijuana... Therefore, I support legislation amending federal law to eliminate all federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to 1 oz. of marijuana." - Jimmy Carter, Former President & Nobel Peace Prize Winner

07-17-2008, 09:47 AM	#15 (permalink)
Vikstar YaHookan Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Auckland Posts: 161 Thanks: 27 Thanked 24 Times in 23 Posts	You remember what happend in your dream as long as you are in the dream; as soon as you come out of dream ie you wake up, the details starts fading and fading. But there's one exception (atleast wiv me): If I have a dream that seems to convey an important message or is related to something depressing in my life; I don't usually forget it and sometimes it's as real part of my life as my real events in life.... Also when I get extremely stoned (skunk) or psychedelics , I can't really tell the difference between dreaming and real life. Real life seems to be as much of a dream as any dream you have. I donno about prebirth but I can tell when I am dreaming, psychedelics, other altered states, I still remain I. Memories may fade (usually long term memories are enhanced), hands might go numb or whateva, consciousness still remains the same. What I mean is altered state of consciousness supports after life consciousness hypothesis as according to materialist position, your brain creates "I". When you fuck up your brain ie altered states; this "I" should be fucked up as well but "I" remains the same. You still view hallucinations as first person. Greg Stone - A critique of Susan Blackmore and the dying brain hypothesis So after death, you wake up somewhere and wonder What the fuck was that.... Oh yeah, scientists do say that babies dream like more than 50% of time. What do they dream about: I remember I used to dream about ladies... Last edited by Vikstar; 07-17-2008 at 09:54 AM.

07-18-2008, 12:25 AM	#16 (permalink)
Shaggy_420 Marijuana Consumer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NV Posts: 876 Thanks: 203 Thanked 69 Times in 37 Posts	you kick when your still in the womb because your dreaming about cockroaches climbing up your legs even unborn fetuses hate cockroaches __________________ "Penalties against the possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself... Nowhere is this more clear to me than in the laws against possession of marijuana... Therefore, I support legislation amending federal law to eliminate all federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to 1 oz. of marijuana." - Jimmy Carter, Former President & Nobel Peace Prize Winner

07-19-2008, 09:07 AM	#17 (permalink)
MaliciousDoll LB Stoner Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Long Beach Posts: 17 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	haha oh rly. but babies have never seen cockroaches, all a baby has ever seen is the inside of a womb, i mean logically thats all they dream about wombs right? or darkness since theres no light in there, its like when ppl say they didnt dream i guess right?

07-19-2008, 09:09 AM	#18 (permalink)
MaliciousDoll LB Stoner Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Long Beach Posts: 17 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	yeah, it is hard to differentiate the reality from a dream when you'e high, thats one of my favorite things about herbs ^_^