reason/excuse

[CoPilot Katie]

what is the difference b/w a reason or explanation and an excuse?

I ask myself this alot when dealing with arguments and such with my mom or a friend when i am trying to explain myself honestly to have a discussion about something we disagree on and am told that im just making excuses. And if they are the same thing... then what is so bad about an excuse, why does it have such a bad connotation?

[verklingen]

a reason and an excuse are the same thing viewed through a different perspective. it's no more and no less than a different perception between those judging its purpose. for you it explains your behavior, for your mom it's only an attempt to excuse your behavior. both are true for your respective perspectives.

[snapshot]

An excuse will attempt to allay responsibility. An explanation will not attempt to allay anything but the ignorance over what had occurred.

When someone tries to excuse themselves, they want to remove themselves from the situation, in a way. An explanation does the opposite in my opinion. It's like, excusing yourself from the dinner table as opposed to explaining yourself at the dinner table, if that makes sense.

So whenever your mom tells you "You're just making excuses," you her them, "I'm not trying to excuse myself from anything. I'm trying to honestly tell you what happened."

Don't be afraid to accept full responsibility if you so happen to be responsible. In order for this to be possible, you have to be honest with yourself first.

[verklingen]

^ and, to her mom who is not happy with what has happened, any explanation she offers will be seen as an attempt to excuse the incident. the difference is a difference of opinion and intent. the mom has the opinion that her daughter has acted wrongly and therefor intends to make the daughter understand the lack of control she exhibited. the daughter has the opinion that she acted wrongly due to circumstance or other factors and intends to explain the part they played in determining her behavior. both positions are reasonable for their respective purposes.

[snapshot]

Originally Posted by verklingen

^ and, to her mom who is not happy with what has happened, any explanation she offers will be seen as an attempt to excuse the incident. the difference is a difference of opinion and intent. the mom has the opinion that her daughter has acted wrongly and therefor intends to make the daughter understand the lack of control she exhibited. the daughter has the opinion that she acted wrongly due to circumstance or other factors and intends to explain the part they played in determining her behavior. both positions are reasonable for their respective purposes.

I think you may assuming too much about what may have occurred or has occurred. I didn't get the impression that Katie thought she did anything wrong, but I may have to wait until she tells us, based on either mine or your differentiation of explanation and excuse, as to whether or not she thinks she did.

So, do you sometimes use excuses and sometimes offer explanations, Katie? Do you see the difference between them, yet?

[verklingen]

i'm not talking about this specific situation, just a generalized sense of reason/excuse. my concept of the mother and daughter are hypothetical.

[snapshot]

Originally Posted by verklingen

i'm not talking about this specific situation, just a generalized sense of reason/excuse. my concept of the mother and daughter are hypothetical.

Mine are hypothetical, too, in the sense that my idea the OP and the OPs mother are hypotheses which I must test to make sure they are accurate.

But mine are certainly different from yours in concept. Right now I'm on the side of the person who's questioning the validity of attack arguments like, "You're just giving me excuses," rather than the presenting the attacking questions.

The "You're just making excuses," can easily be a catch-all/be-all/end-all argument from a parents perspective, and it doesn't need to have any meaning behind it whatsoever. If the child is questioning other people and is unable to question the mother without the mother attacker her, it makes me question the credibility of the mother.

[Feyd]

It depends I think. If you offer an excuse, it is more of a plea or a desperate attempt to get out of trouble.
A reason convinces the listener with logic. For example, you are out later than you are supposed to be, so your mother confronts you when you walk in the door. You explain that you left your cell at someone's house and had to drive to go get it.
Your mother might say, "that's just an excuse. How would you know where it was?" You could explain that you were with a different friend who called around to places you were earlier and someone had found it. To her your excuse might then become a good reason. Obviously saying you left your phone at someone else's house might seem like a flimsy excuse if you are notorious for lying in the eyes of your parents, though.

Generally, saying shit like "I forgot what time it was" or "I thought I called you" is looked at as a poor excuse, no matter if it's true or not.

In reality, there is no real difference between the two, but your mother isn't going by Webster's versions.
Also, she might believe that indeed you did forget what time it was, but that doesn't excuse your behavior. "That's just an excuse" is exactly that. "Sorry I forgot" ..."That's just an excuse!" ..."But it's true!"
In all reality, it doesn't matter if it's true. You shouldn't be offering that tidbit of info up to get out of trouble, that's the whole reason you got in trouble in the first place. Because you forgot.
Try saying "But it was my greens on the gravity bong Mom!" next time. Might work out!

[CoPilot Katie]

Originally Posted by snapshot

An excuse will attempt to allay responsibility. An explanation will not attempt to allay anything but the ignorance over what had occurred.

When someone tries to excuse themselves, they want to remove themselves from the situation, in a way. An explanation does the opposite in my opinion. It's like, excusing yourself from the dinner table as opposed to explaining yourself at the dinner table, if that makes sense.

So whenever your mom tells you "You're just making excuses," you her them, "I'm not trying to excuse myself from anything. I'm trying to honestly tell you what happened."

Don't be afraid to accept full responsibility if you so happen to be responsible. In order for this to be possible, you have to be honest with yourself first.

haha yeah, i feel the same way. and have said that in those exact words. but it is really just about perspective in the end.

[CoPilot Katie]

all very true i think.

i also think i should make myself clear. when i posted the thread originally i wasnt thinking of any situation in particular. infact the event inspiring my question was a drawn out disagreement...which i didnt think needed to turn into any sort of argument(by this i mean the raising of a voice) but the other girl was belligerent. everytime she would raise her voice i would try and calmly restate and explain furthur where i stood and my reasonings for various things that had upset the friendship. i also attempted to state very clearly that i knew i had made mistakes and was trying to correct them, but that i thought she had made some mistakes to, that it wasnt all my fault. which personally i think any disagreement owes fault to all involved.

at any rate... at this point in time, my excuses are mostly just excuses as far as my mother goes, though there is nothing to excuse, it just mom being a mom. though the credibility of my mothers "attack arguments" were generally complete insanity (keep in mind i say this from a distant stand point and with the most unbiased nature i can hope to have), there was no doubt faults on my behalf, generally because i can keep my temper with anyone except my mom.

so this post is really long, sorry, this is a complicated subject apparently.
but my original point was to differentiate between the actual meaning of the two words.
as for reality, it is created by own inner thoughts and perceptions and therefore each term, especially considering that they are virtually the same in dictionary meaning, are simply just biased angles of argument and defense... depending which side you are on i suppose