Obama's Tax Plan

[DubStyle311]

People can bag their own groceries. Sports provides entertainment to millions of people. It allows people to relax and to bond with other humans. It's perhaps the best unscripted drama out there. It's great for civic pride and building unity. Sports organizations employ many many people besides the athletes on the teams. Entertainment is a very important part of society.

Of course athletes get paid ridiculous amounts of money, baseball especially. Sure, I think there are TONS of over payed athletes out there - dont even get me started on that. But to compare it to baggin groceries...I'm pretty sure that even the worst AAA players should make more than someone bagging groceries.

[DubStyle311]

Originally Posted by verklingen

edit: a baseball player makes more than a farmer, the trucker who takes the farmer's produce to the store, the stocker, the cashier, and the bagger combined. is the baseball player's contribution to our society really of more value than all these? it doesn't matter if "anyone" can do these jobs. they are important jobs that need to be done. and people do them. valuable people.

No there is not equal value in all these jobs. Farming is much more difficult to do than taking corn off the truck and putting it on the shelf. I can find any knumbskull to stock shelves. You cant say that about a farmer.

[JcP]

wait, I thought America was the place where anyone can have a job and live a good life?

So what you're REALLY advocating here is that if you do a job that some ethereal "collective" views as important (being a socialite, investing money in oil futures, hitting balls with sticks) you get to live the American dream.

If you do a job that allows the rich to experience the American dream (catering their parties, bagging their groceries, cleaning their houses), you shouldn't make as much as them...and not only that, but you shouldn't even make CLOSE to as much as them.

Your "american dream" is an oligarchy.

[verklingen]

Originally Posted by dub

People can bag their own groceries. Sports provides entertainment to millions of people. It allows people to relax and to bond with other humans. It's perhaps the best unscripted drama out there. It's great for civic pride and building unity. Sports organizations employ many many people besides the athletes on the teams. Entertainment is a very important part of society.

Of course athletes get paid ridiculous amounts of money, baseball especially. Sure, I think there are TONS of over payed athletes out there - dont even get me started on that. But to compare it to baggin groceries...I'm pretty sure that even the worst AAA players should make more than someone bagging groceries.

i guess people can drive food to the store, stock it, scan it at the self checkout, and then bag it as well, right? you're being unrealistic. it's not as simple as you make it seem. people can't do everything for themselves. if they could, we wouldn't have a society.

even the lowest paid baseball player rakes in more than the people i mentioned in my post. you really think the "lowest" baseball player is more valuable to our society than the people who make it work?

Originally Posted by dub

People can bag their own groceries. Sports provides entertainment to millions of people. It allows people to relax and to bond with other humans. It's perhaps the best unscripted drama out there. It's great for civic pride and building unity. Sports organizations employ many many people besides the athletes on the teams. Entertainment is a very important part of society.

Of course athletes get paid ridiculous amounts of money, baseball especially. Sure, I think there are TONS of over payed athletes out there - dont even get me started on that. But to compare it to baggin groceries...I'm pretty sure that even the worst AAA players should make more than someone bagging groceries.

and for all his labor you supposedly respect, the farmer is still worse off than the worst baseball player. and this is the system you champion.

[DubStyle311]

Originally Posted by verklingen

i guess people can drive food to the store, stock it, scan it at the self checkout, and then bag it as well, right? you're being unrealistic. it's not as simple as you make it seem. people can't do everything for themselves. if they could, we wouldn't have a society.

even the lowest paid baseball player rakes in more than the people i mentioned in my post. you really think the "lowest" baseball player is more valuable to our society than the people who make it work?

And you're being obtuse. You're asking me specific questions. I'm answering, then you're trying to extrapolate that and apply it to all situations. Doesn't work like that.

I can hire just about any sucker with a drivers license to deliver corn to the store. But guess what, maybe I'm some huge famer co-op or whatever teh fuck and I have shitloads of corn that needs to get shipped. Then i gotta find someone with a CDL. Guess what, the second guy is gonna earn more money because its a more specialized skill.

[JcP]

^^ do you think there are more jobs than people in this country? In other words, do you think everyone who is unemployed can have a job in this country and there still be a need for more workers?


and those "suckers" are just as valuable as your sports heroes, remember?So I'm confused why you call them suckers and numbskulls. Guess you don't value them as much, eh?

[DubStyle311]

Originally Posted by JcP

wait, I thought America was the place where anyone can have a job and live a good life?

So what you're REALLY advocating here is that if you do a job that some ethereal "collective" views as important (being a socialite, investing money in oil futures, hitting balls with sticks) you get to live the American dream.

If you do a job that allows the rich to experience the American dream (catering their parties, bagging their groceries, cleaning their houses), you shouldn't make as much as them...and not only that, but you shouldn't even make CLOSE to as much as them.

Your "american dream" is an oligarchy.

There are many paths one can take.

You cater parties? Work for a bit and learn how do the job and go out and start your own catering company. Maybe you have the skills to build it from the ground up abd turn it into one of the biggest catering companies on Long Island, and you sell you business for 50 million. I recently met someone who took that path only with landscaping and did just that.

[DubStyle311]

Originally Posted by JcP

^^ do you think there are more jobs than people in this country? In other words, do you think everyone who is unemployed can have a job in this country and there still be a need for more workers?

I think this country can reach full employment. But because of the nature of the jobs market. The fact that it is always in a state of flux with ppl leaving jobs, being fired, and changing jobs, full employment can be achieved with unemployment > 0. Make sense?

In a more general sense though, yes.

[DubStyle311]

Oh yea. What about that fucking 70% marginal tax rate. No one seems to have any comments on that. Just another game of lets ask dub to explain every situation imaginable.

[verklingen]

^ you honestly believe he would be able to follow through with that plan exactly as he would like?

[JcP]

that's truthiness.

[generic_hippie]

Originally Posted by DubStyle311

There are many paths one can take.

You cater parties? Work for a bit and learn how do the job and go out and start your own catering company. Maybe you have the skills to build it from the ground up abd turn it into one of the biggest catering companies on Long Island, and you sell you business for 50 million. I recently met someone who took that path only with landscaping and did just that.

not everybody is mentally or physically capable of pursuing the great american dream, then there are those who are denied it because of race or other non-related american causes

Should not a society deemed worthy of exporting by force have more to share with those not fortunate enough to be born with the pre-determined requirements for success?

should not those most able to pay be forced to pay?

[DubStyle311]

Its really not that much legislation. Raising the taxes will be a cinche, because the tax cuts are set to expire in 2010. Then all he has to do is get rid of the cap on payroll taxes.

Simple as that, unfortunately.

[JcP]

Originally Posted by verklingen

^ you honestly believe he would be able to follow through with that plan exactly as he would like?

not to mention the fact that I won't stand on others to make my 50 million, because I recognize the value of being a "worker."

You know what, this thread has just helped me a lot. I just realized that spending my time working in catering has given me an immense appreciation for people who do the work that no one ever "wants" to do. An appreciation that, perhaps, Dub will learn in time.

And while I certainly understand Dubstyle's position, as it's one I used to feel...being part of the "numbskulls" and "suckers" for a while has shown me that it's not as black and white as he would make it, or as black and white as I would make it either.

[DubStyle311]

Originally Posted by generic_hippie

not everybody is mentally or physically capable of pursuing the great american dream, then there are those who are denied it because of race or other non-related american causes

Should not a society deemed worthy of exporting by force have more to share with those not fortunate enough to be born with the pre-determined requirements for success?

should not those most able to pay be forced to pay?

http://www.yahooka.com/forum/51609372-post10.html

[DubStyle311]

Originally Posted by verklingen

^ you honestly believe he would be able to follow through with that plan exactly as he would like?

Lol I thought you were asking about Obama.

Would he be able to follow through on that plan exactly? Perhaps. I have no idea - I dont know the guy. Like I said though, I met someone who did it with landscaping. He had a pretty strong mindset. Knew he never wanted to work for someone. He busted his ass for 10 years building his business. It most certainly can be done with ingenuity, hard work, and a little luck.

[Hedons]

Arguing the true value to society of a professional athlete versus a grocery bagger is completely meaningless to a market blind to such values. Salaries and wages reflect what the market is willing to pay for a someone according to their skills, abilities, talents, looks, viewpoints, etc. The alternative is government regulation of such things. No thanks.

Case in point... The Associated Press: Rush Limbaugh to get $38M a year for next 8 years

-Hedons

[generic_hippie]

you are stuck on the percentage dubstyle, the percentage in your opinion is too high.

If the guy can still feed, clothe and house his family, and those with less opportunity get some ca$h from it, (more specifically the benefits from ca$h/tax), then the number you are so concerned about becomes arbitrary.

So the guy has to take a cut in the amount of luxury he opulates in, big deal if it means better infrastructure for everybody.

You seem to advocate a class system, where there are untouchables who work in grocery stores and the like, not worthy of wealth because of the circumstance of their birth.