Welcome to Police State America

[Terry]

My stance on protests: It's stupid an almost never accomplishes anything, but it should always be allowed

[Mafoo]

i feel like im somewhere between verk and kameelyun on the political continuum (sp?)

verk makes many good points about highlighting many of the freedoms we do share, but i also feel like alot of what kameelyun pointed out are symptoms of encroachment on those rights.

[flappy]

by what criteria are the us, china and iran considered police states? i'm genuinely curious as to how i could be getting ready to head home to my family to spend my weekend doing whatever it is i wish while living in a police state.

and again, what's being protested?

Good issues for you to research over the weekend,if you get some free time.

[Mafoo]

oh shit we have homework!?

this is a good thread, ignore my joke

[flappy]

oh shit we have homework!?

this is a good thread, ignore my joke

I think Verk wants quick answers sometimes. The guy knows something just ain't right, but can't quite put his finger on it. Seeing there is a world, right on our doorstep, that will LRAD your ass just for LOOKING at a protest, can be frightening.
Keep up the InfoWars, bros !

[Maturin]

Oh, please.

I'm sorry the leaders of 20 countries in the world gather in one spot and there might be some security.

May I ask some questions here? Where was the first video shot? Did the people have a permit to protest peacefully? Or did they just think they could go wherever they please in the name of the 1st Amendment? (This applies to the second video as well but since it's so short and out of context it's barely worth considering. What happened in the five minutes beforehand, I ask?). I'm surmising these people didn't have a permit and thus weren't there legally. The fair warning the cops give at the start says as much.

I'm getting sick of these people who gather and vandalize in the name of economic anarchy whenever more than three bankers meet in Whatever City to discuss what they had for lunch. They aren't actually trying to change anything; they're just young and rowdy and want to make noise. It's little more than an excuse for a party. They're like Deadheads for the World Bank: wherever the meeting is, that's where they'll show up and ask for a dose. Fuck whatever actually being discussed. Protest anything in the name of making the evening news.

Want to be taken seriously? Take off the fucking bandanna; this ain't Tombstone.

[zerodown]

I really don't understand why you guys are unable to agree on one simple thing, regardless of how effective protests are, that first video clearly depicts a scene in which it is clear fact that americans DO NOT have free speech, that video shows how your voice, your speech, your right can be silenced easily. To try and say otherwise only serves as a means to measure how indoctrinated you are.

Can't you all just agree on that very simple and obvious fact? If we cannot agree on such a simple thing how can we ever agree on how to save the nation?

[spicoli]

these things happen in our country so much more often than i was aware, until now.
i am in shock. this is a terrible and terrifying thing to wake up to. our media is so sanitized...just like in countries in the middle east that i felt sorry for. who's sorry now?
i agree...it is NO COINCIDENCE that the 'terrorist suspects' that have been charged are being charged with crimes NOW. we are on the fringe of sending 40,000 more troops to afghanistan, and on the verge of supporting an israeli attack of iran. FUCK!!! if israel attacks, you know they'll have our govs support. israel as much as said they don't wanna wait any given period of time before they go.
get up on youtube...there's more like this one.

[Ego Tripping]

Protesters and police clash again? OFMFOMGOMOMFOMFOMFOG G ALERT TEH MEDIAZ!!!!!!!!

This was just a power struggle. Protests can be peaceful until they turn violent, simple as that. Good lord, research the pasts protests of civil rights and tell me this is something new or unheard of. While the police use a very heavy hand, the protesters use heavy hands as well. Both parties are guilty of inciting violence. There are fucked up people on both sides of the line and to deny that is to be biased to the upmost. The clash of these two groups do not herald the arrival of a police state, they exhibit the visceral pulse of our Democracy at work. Fact is, there is no Police State at work, just a symptom of the law vs. the people and it's been that way since the inception and subsequent balance of our young but rapidly growing Democracy.

[Geeno]

If protests werent somewhat controlled they could easily turn into riots.

[kameelyun]

Well it's not exactly the night of the long knives, but frightening all the same.

I would have to say the quisessential police state imo is Nazi Germany, we're nowhere near that, hell China and Iran aren't even close, but that is not to say it couldnt happen

No actually, I think the quintessential ones are Soviet Union, Khemer Rouge (Pol Pot), Mao's China, and modern North Korea. Believe it or not, Nazi Germany was kind of tame in comparison, at least until the war years.

I read in a book that there was only one Gestapo informant for every 5,000 people living in Nazi Germany. By contrast, under Soviet communism, there was one Stasi informant for about 120 civilians. The East Germans under Communism had to reckon with the possibility of an informant being present at any fairly large dinner party. The Germans under Nazism, by contrast, could largely eat in peace, and indeed so could the 'undesirable' minorities, at least until the war years hit.

[kameelyun]

Protesters and police clash again? OFMFOMGOMOMFOMFOMFOG G ALERT TEH MEDIAZ!!!!!!!!

This was just a power struggle. Protests can be peaceful until they turn violent, simple as that. Good lord, research the pasts protests of civil rights and tell me this is something new or unheard of. While the police use a very heavy hand, the protesters use heavy hands as well. Both parties are guilty of inciting violence. There are fucked up people on both sides of the line and to deny that is to be biased to the upmost. The clash of these two groups do not herald the arrival of a police state, they exhibit the visceral pulse of our Democracy at work. Fact is, there is no Police State at work, just a symptom of the law vs. the people and it's been that way since the inception and subsequent balance of our young but rapidly growing Democracy.

I don't see any violence being incited by the protesters in the first video of the OP. I see people holding signs and Luke Rudkowski using his bullhorn to try and remind the police of First Amendment rights in public property. Private property of course is a different story.

In downtown Cincinnati I've been with groups that have protested at major events like Riverfest. It's public property. Great opportunity to peacefully get our message out. So the authorities take this route to try and silence us: "Yes, normally it's public property, but this event is sponsored by (fill in the blank) so it's private today." I mean come on, sheesh. You don't buy or rent public property. It's public domain, for Chrissakes!

[Peace seeker]

thats fascism and unless you do something about it, its gonna get worse and worse

did you see those idiots from broward county's police dept? they were laughing for shooting that poor lady on the face

what a bunch of loosers

wearing the police uniform and thinking they are the law....wankers

go suck each others dicks and play with your cop gear


in this neck of the woods, our youth throws molotovs to such wankers

thousands of molotovs



when cops arent afraid of the people, then you have fascism

its up to you to overturn that fascism

[zerodown]

If protests werent somewhat controlled they could easily turn into riots.

A controlled protest is not a protest.

And ego tripping, how can it be a power struggle if one side has signs and bullhorns and the other side has shields, guns, handcuffs, boots, uniforms, tear gas, sticks, tazers, helmets, armored vehicles and a semi immunity badge?

Seriously, do you have trouble deciding who is in power between a cop shooting against a woman covering behind a sign?

Heres a video of my town, I was here having drinks with my friends as all university students do at night, this place is right outside the campus. You can see no one is being violent, i can guarantee it cause i was there, and then look what happens:

Let me say what is going on here for better understandment. 3 cops are walking past peacful students who are just having fun, the last one is carrying one of those tear gas bazooka or whatever is called, the girl recording them is shouting "this is police oppression". when they reach the front of the most popular pub on the street, the turn and start pointing the bazooka, trying to decide where to shoot it to, everyone yells "don't do it", still he shoots and then you will clearly see at the end how a cop can knock down a line of peacful students with ease. I gtg work. Oh yeah, it might be good to know this happened the day before a new law prohibiting the sale of alcohol after 12pm was being passed, do i need to say that this was only a show to pass on the news and show the people how badly we need said law? yeah right, it all backfired thanks to these videos that showed this "riot" was a montage by the police.



If you write motin rio piedras, you can see more videos of the same night, one of them, hard to find, shows a girl with big chunk of her leg missing cause she was shot with one of those bazookas.

Its sickening to watch these things, but its more sickening listening to people who try and defend these idiots by sying things like ego tripping comments. Damn america, wake up.

[kameelyun]

I myself am disgusted by the ones here who are defending the police action. Hell, while we're at it, let's escalate the war on pot smokers too!

Remember the Iranian woman who was shot and her bleeding death caught on cell phone cam for the world to see?

Because it happened in a country that the western world considers a "dictatorship," she became hyped the world over as a symbol of freedom and democracy in the face of oppression.

If it had happened in the USA, one or two on this forum would have probably tried to make excuses for the shooter. "Well, uuuh, she knew protesting was against the law" "she was engaging in douchebaggery" etc.

Quit making excuses for this kind of oppression! I know it's cognitive dissonance to realize that the USA is turning into (has turned into) precisely what we thought we never would. WAKE UP!!!!

[spicoli]

it is an extremely difficult thing to even try to wrap your head around, but you cannot deny it once you SEE IT. it really looks like us against them.
as for 'unlawful assemblies:'

'Hi, excuse me, can I please have a permit to voice my opinion of disdain over the way things are being run, please.' WTF? who the FUCK are they serving and protecting? cuz it's not the PEOPLE.

[JcP]

while the police action is intense, I'm curious about motives here. The "clash" between protestors and police gives the protestors FAR more media coverage and public awareness...

I, like Verk, have yet to hear a concise answer to what exactly is being protested...but this is NOT a police state.
A police state would have silenced the protests and any news about them. Fascist state, perhaps, but hyperbole makes you look silly and uneducated.

Seeing both sides to an argument like this does not mean you are "siding" with the police or are experiencing cognitive dissonance. It just means you're thinking clearly enough to not let passion and emotion get in the way of your comprehension of motives and what's actually occuring.

Congratulations to the protestors...you've made national headlines. In fact, the protests have made more news that the actual meeting. What you're protesting, I don't know. But grats!

[zerodown]

while the police action is intense, I'm curious about motives here. The "clash" between protestors and police gives the protestors FAR more media coverage and public awareness...

I, like Verk, have yet to hear a concise answer to what exactly is being protested...but this is NOT a police state.
A police state would have silenced the protests and any news about them. Fascist state, perhaps, but hyperbole makes you look silly and uneducated.

Seeing both sides to an argument like this does not mean you are "siding" with the police or are experiencing cognitive dissonance. It just means you're thinking clearly enough to not let passion and emotion get in the way of your comprehension of motives and what's actually occuring.

Congratulations to the protestors...you've made national headlines. In fact, the protests have made more news that the actual meeting. What you're protesting, I don't know. But grats!

What a protest is about is completely irrelevant, they could have been protesting against the color pink for all it matters, what IS important here is the fact that government is using police violence to shut down peaceful protests.

The point is also trying to shift to "is it a police state or not?" well, it doesn't matter either, we can't spend the next ten years arguing about categorizations, it is what it is, police state or not, we have to look at the evidence and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, the evidence CLEARLY AND WITHOUT DOUBT shows prostests being shut down by police brutality. DO SOMETHING AMERICA!

Also you say you want to hear the two sides, but there are three sides:

Protesters
brainless police following orders
order givers who protesters are protesting against

These videos show only the first two, the protesters and the brainless, so you can only hear one side of the argument:

Protesters: Stop [protest issue]!!!
Brainless: ... you are in violation of blah blah blah, GTFO.

Seriously, focus on what matters, the american public has lost the right to protest(like every other right), now you need a permit to protest.

WTF AMERICA!!!

[kameelyun]

What a protest is about is completely irrelevant, they could have been protesting against the color pink for all it matters, what IS important here is the fact that government is using police violence to shut down peaceful protests.

Thank you.

The point is also trying to shift to "is it a police state or not?" well, it doesn't matter either, we can't spend the next ten years arguing about categorizations, it is what it is, police state or not, we have to look at the evidence and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, the evidence CLEARLY AND WITHOUT DOUBT shows prostests being shut down by police brutality. DO SOMETHING AMERICA!

Very good point.

I'm reminded of the mass murder that went on in Darfur, Sudan, a few years ago.

World authorities who had the power to go in and stop it stood on their hands, arguing for the LONGEST TIME over whether what was going on in Darfur technically fit the definition of genocide, or whether this was "not quite" genocide. Meanwhile the injustices were continuing.

[JcP]

What a protest is about is completely irrelevant, they could have been protesting against the color pink for all it matters, what IS important here is the fact that government is using police violence to shut down peaceful protests.

stop that. That wasn't the point. Asking what they are protesting about is a complete side-tangent of a question to my main point.
Peaceful protests you say? Have you not paid any attention to the G-8 and G-20 protests in the past? There's a REASON my friends from Pittsburgh fuckin' LEFT TOWN when this all started. Don't you remember Seattle a few years ago?
People set fires, threw shit, broke windows, and basically rioted. In Pittsburgh there have already been vandalism incidents and "anarchist" crap all over the place.

So please take my question of "what are they protesting" as a secondary question as intended instead of making that the main affront in your rebuttal.

The point is also trying to shift to "is it a police state or not?" well, it doesn't matter either, we can't spend the next ten years arguing about categorizations, it is what it is, police state or not, we have to look at the evidence and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, the evidence CLEARLY AND WITHOUT DOUBT shows prostests being shut down by police brutality. DO SOMETHING AMERICA!

As I said quite clearly: my issue is with hyperbole getting in the way of a message. Calling Obama a socialist makes those who disagree with him look like assholes. Calling Bush a Nazi: assholes. And calling America a police state: assholes.
you lose all credibility among anyone who understands the concept(s) you're invoking...completel y neutering any ability you have to convince them of your points.
do something America? do what? What are YOU doing?
I'm pissed at the police, and equally pissed off at these mask wearing idiots who think destruction and violence is a way to get their "message" (whatever it is...) across.
That being said...what would you like "us" to do? What is your planned, thought out, viable solution? You seem to be extremely passionate about the G-20 and police brutality...so I assume you have a solution or a plan? Or are you just raging for raging's sake?

You know who you should be mad at? The idiots who riot and cause destruction which leads to the NEED for fucking riot police and "non-lethal" tanks in an American city.

Also you say you want to hear the two sides, but there are three sides:

Protesters
brainless police following orders
order givers who protesters are protesting against

If you want to do this, then let's be honest...There are "brainless" police following orders, there are completely honest and belief-oriented police following orders, there are brainless "protesters" using this event as an excuse to be "angsty," there are honest and belief-oriented protesters who have a message (still awaiting to hear what this is), there are the order givers who the protesters are protesting against, and there are order givers who incite fear and anger in people who end up joining this "protest" with only the knowledge passed unto them by their "leaders."

These videos show only the first two, the protesters and the brainless, so you can only hear one side of the argument:

Protesters: Stop [protest issue]!!!
Brainless: ... you are in violation of blah blah blah, GTFO.

Seriously, focus on what matters, the american public has lost the right to protest(like every other right), now you need a permit to protest.

"now" you need a permit to protest? You've needed a permit to protest since before you were born (assuming you're not ancient).

THE ENTIRE CITY OF PITTSBURGH has basically shut the fuck down because of the apparent "non-protests." What do you want?

the purpose of a protest is to get your message out. Applying for a permit to do so keeps protests in line with the “exercised in subordination to the general comfort and convenience, and in consonance with peace and good order….” which was a supreme court ruling in 1939. Public space(s) are for the use of ALL, not for the monopolization of a single group, regardless of their message.