Welcome to Police State America

[Terry]

No actually, I think the quintessential ones are Soviet Union, Khemer Rouge (Pol Pot), Mao's China, and modern North Korea. Believe it or not, Nazi Germany was kind of tame in comparison, at least until the war years.

If you think Germany was "tame" pre war, I suggest you read the fantastic book The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

There were organized pogroms, synagogue burning, rape of jews in the street, public execution, jack booted thugs patrolling the street etc. Not a nice place to live, esp if you weren't German

[The Rev]

police state? and i thought i was getting ready to enjoy a weekend with my family, fuck! the stormtroopers were kind enough to let me post before taking me to the fema camp, though

it's monstrous what's been done but 5+ years ago the only avenues for illuminating these atrocities caught on film were badly designed black/tiled background websites with colorful text or p2p filesharing. now we get to embed such videos directly to any place on the web we wish to share it, and internal investigations sparked from videos uploaded to sites that depict abusive conduct are commonplace.

not the happiest set of circumstances but to say our country is dead is a bit of a stretch imo

Big Brother is watching, but Little Brother is watching him right back.



The Rev

[Ego Tripping]

^ Exactly.

And zerodown, at what point did I ever defend the police? Kiss my ass, thanks.

Once again, nothing new under the sun. People protest, police are meant to "control" the situation as Geeno said yet always tend to use a heavier hand than necessary which incites blowback which turns into the shit you see in the videos.

That does not equate to a coming police state. In fact, if it did, we would already be in a full fledged one by this point. I'm not going to buy into the whole "wake up America" rhetoric...so far, that's all i see people like zerodown posting. I'm wide awake. That's why I moved to an area that is attempting to become community sustained along with it's own power, water, food and currency. Difference is, I didn't do it out of fear, I did it out of joy, because I love of where the world is going. And that choice between fear and love is the only choice that's going to get us further along. From people like flappy and zerdown, they are simply perpetrating the very fear that they are protesting.

If you really want to fight back against the "powers that be", stop being afraid of any inevitable "police state." Then we could finally get somewhere.

[kameelyun]

If you think Germany was "tame" pre war, I suggest you read the fantastic book The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

There were organized pogroms, synagogue burning, rape of jews in the street, public execution, jack booted thugs patrolling the street etc. Not a nice place to live, esp if you weren't German

I have read that book, cover to cover. I had to in college. I know all about Kristallnacht etc. I have seem more documentaries on Nazi Germany than I care to count.

I said it was tame RELATIVE to those other regimes I mentioned.

In Pol Pot's Cambodia, EVERYONE was subjected to his wrath. Pol Pot had this "fantastic" idea that the best cities are the ones with no people. His military forced everyone in the entire city out of their homes and forced them to walk out into the countryside, where they were killed in killing fields. Prior to that radical move, people wearing glasses were killed because they looked "intellectual" and PP despised intellectuals.

In modern North Korea, there actually is a tightly underground culture of smuggled VHS tapes of soap operas from South Korea, watched by North Koreans hungry to know what the outside world is like. I read in a similar book on NK that what the authorities do is this: they shut down the power in an entire neighborhood. This means that if you are "guilty" of watching one of these videos at the time, you can not eject it from the VCR without power. Then, the authorities go house to house and make sure the people aren't watching something "subversive." If they are caught, they are sent to a labor camp with zero hope of getting out and subject to constant beatings and torture.

Oh by the way, the book Rise and Fall of the Third Reich propagates the claim, now acknowledged to be false according to mainstream holocaust scholars, that the Germans made soap and lampshades out of Jews.

[NickNasty]

If protesting ever accomplished anything, they would outlaw it.

Wait, nevermind.

Time to bring out the guillotine.

[Ego Tripping]

I don't see any violence being incited by the protesters in the first video of the OP. I see people holding signs and Luke Rudkowski using his bullhorn to try and remind the police of First Amendment rights in public property. Private property of course is a different story.

I never said it's always both sides, I just said there's shared guilt amongst these situations. I can't say this enough...can you name a time where the Police weren't hostile towards protesters? This goes back since time immemorial and I find it highly arrogant or perhaps extremely paranoid that you guys are crying "Police State" now. Do some research, for chrissakes! But what's amazing is there was a time when the protests weren't about a global consortium of the economy, but black people fighting to get equal rights enough to drink out of the same water fountain as white people!

We've come a long way and as Verk said, to say our country is dead or even close to it is not only a stretch but is an ungrateful and shortsighted perspective.

In other words, cheer up, kiddos. The world is not as doomed as Alex Jones says it is.

[Terry]

I said it was tame RELATIVE to those other regimes I mentioned.

oh I got you

Rise and Fall is pretty good eh?

[Terry]

didnt know about the lampshades, what I dont like about the book is the author is an obvious homophobe

[kameelyun]

oh I got you

Rise and Fall is pretty good eh?

Took me a few months to get through the whole thing!

[Ego Tripping]

"I was once asked why I don't participate in anti-war demonstrations. I said that I will never do that, but as soon as you have a pro-peace rally, I'll be there."
- Mother Teresa

[kameelyun]

"No pot, no peace" - Ken Gorman

[stoneric]

We haven't become a police state. We might be a police state, but if we are, we've been one for a long time.

[zerodown]

You started it...

stop that.

Stop what? Exercising my rights? Back from the music topic I noticed you like to argue in an authoritative manner as if you're superior to anyone in here, kind of arrogant in my opinion, and you also never really seem to respond to anything, you just change the subject slightly around.

That wasn't the point.

Like this.

Asking what they are protesting about is a complete side-tangent of a question to my main point.

Development of the change right here. Side-tangent? FOCUS ON WHAT MATTERS!

Peaceful protests you say? Have you not paid any attention to the G-8 and G-20 protests in the past?

Yes, though I think you haven't, which is obvious since you don't even seem to know what the protests are about. Like someone said, even monks went to protest, are they vandals? Anarchists? Socialists? What social group or ism do you hate? Makes me wonder where you get your news from, do the headlines read something along the lines of "g20 threatend by violent protesters"?

There's a REASON my friends from Pittsburgh fuckin' LEFT TOWN when this all started.

They should have stayed, and helped the protesters that were protesting for them. Your friends just fled. They ignored reality, you seem to be very very afraid of reality.

Don't you remember Seattle a few years ago?
People set fires, threw shit, broke windows, and basically rioted. In Pittsburgh there have already been vandalism incidents and "anarchist" crap all over the place.

Yeah I remember, where were you? Sitting at home? safe? I guess so, you were hiding at home probably cause vandals and anarchists were on the streets protesting, woooooo...

So please take my question of "what are they protesting" as a secondary question as intended instead of making that the main affront in your rebuttal.

Let secondary questions be second, now that we're finished with your tangents and derivatives that stray us from the point that WE AMERICANS HAVE BEEN STRIPPED FROM OUR RIGHTS. So I'll skip all the crap about assholes who call others assholes(more categorization that leads us fucking nowhere, we need unity not segregation) because I don't see how that is irrelevant to anything, on the whole topic. I'll also skip the part about my lack of "credibility" being that what matters here is a video which shows american people being violated and stripped off of their rights. I don't need "credibility" when there is DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE of what I am saying(see first video of OP again). I will also skip the part about "there are also brainless this and brainless that" ceause again it doesn't matter what people are, what matters is YOUR RIGHTS BEING VIOLATED, who is brainless and who is not is just another of your wild tangents straying away from the main point. Lastly I will skip the part about purposes and permits of protests, mainly because IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER, FOCUS, learn to walk before running, step by step, first fight for your right, THEN exercise your right.

So lets address what little does relate to the point:

I'm pissed at the police, and equally pissed off at these mask wearing idiots who think destruction and violence is a way to get their "message" (whatever it is...) across.

Destruction and violence is not a way to spread a message, its a way to bring about change, its a fundamental rule of life. If you're pissed about something GO PROTEST, its your right, don't stay home getting fatter, GO PROTEST, demand a change. Thoes people protesting and getting shot at are fighting for YOUR RIGHTS, you should be ashamed of not supporting them because if they ever happen to win and make a change you would benefit from it. Go help, stop telling everyone that its not possible, that is called insularism in my country, to think that we're so weak that we can't stop the injustices of a corrupt government.

That being said...what would you like "us" to do? What is your planned, thought out, viable solution? You seem to be extremely passionate about the G-20 and police brutality...so I assume you have a solution or a plan? Or are you just raging for raging's sake?

Questions like this make me lose all hope in america. WHY DO YOU NEED A LEADER TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO? to tell you what is right or wrong? Can't you use your brain to know that killing is bad? Can't you get along with your neighbors without a court order? Can't you just use your brain anymore? Do you need government to tell you what to do, how to do it and how much to pay for it all the time? DAMN.

I am no leader, I can't command you into doing anything, and I won't expect you to follow any order I could give. you have to understand what is going on and act on your own, make up YOUR MIND. If I were to give you any advice, it would be very simple, watch the videos again, and if you think the police violated their right to protest peacefully, GO PROTEST, nothing will ever change if you don't make it change, these things will continue to happen and continue to worsen until the majority of americans inevitably and systematically as it has happened throughout history, GO TO PROTEST!


[quote]You know who you should be mad at? The idiots who riot and cause destruction which leads to the NEED for fucking riot police and "non-lethal" tanks in an American city./quote]

Again, those idiots are protesting for a better world for you, me and everyone. Don't demonize the ONLY people who are sacrificing their time and lives for you, if anything we should sacrifice government officials who we know are corrupt, forget the legal system, they own it, just group together and go burn them on a cross for treason, you can't take down politicians using the courts, they own the courts, stop being a fool, WAKE UP, start up your brain, grab a book or two about history.

"now" you need a permit to protest? You've needed a permit to protest since before you were born (assuming you're not ancient).

Probably because your dad or granddad didn't go to protest, haha.

a supreme court ruling in 1939.

Do we need to discuss how corrupt the justice deparment is?

Public space(s) are for the use of ALL, not for the monopolization of a single group, regardless of their message.

So which is it, can all use it or can no one use it? they(protesters) were using it, and were thrown out of a public space, for using it. Do they have to use it in total silence?

WTF AMERICA? Ii this how the majority of americans think? no wonder the rest of the world hates us and we need nukes to keep them form biting.

[Ego Tripping]

Heh...I've been hearing speculation that the video of the "kidnapping" was completely staged by protesters to make a point, as the uniforms don't match any kind of police or military authority nor does the car they were driving.

most people that "would know" if this is real or not is saying that this in NOT real. The uniforms are not correct and mismatched. Notice the driver has the correct current issued boots but the others do not? There are no weapons present, none, not even a baton. You will also notice that the protester is not handcuffed before being put into the car.

There are too many "problems" for this to be legit. AT BEST this is local P.D. dressing up with what ever they have to extract one of their own. AT worst it is a strictly staged event to try and create a controversy that does not exist.

Hey, sounds just as plausible as the other cover-ups, right? But if it proves true, it renders this thread pure sensationalism. I'm shocked. Seriously.

[JcP]

You started it...


Stop what? Exercising my rights? Back from the music topic I noticed you like to argue in an authoritative manner as if you're superior to anyone in here, kind of arrogant in my opinion, and you also never really seem to respond to anything, you just change the subject slightly around..

Yes, me asking you to stop it was asking you to stop exercising your rights. (jesus christ....)


no, it might seem that way to you, since your involvement in the music downloading thread was ridonkulous, but I'm actually quite level headed. Authoritative manner? Far from it. I admit being wrong quite often (and often find middle ground with people...mydraxis was the most recent one to come to mind...Dubstyle even on one or two occasions). I do, however, insist upon consistancy and logic in people's arguments and debate tactics...and when you don't fulfill your obligation to do so (in so far as the basis for good discussion) I call you out on it.
I will now respond to each and every one of your points clearly and concisely. I am a bit befuddled at your belief I change the subject...as I don't think I have even ONCE done so...but what can you do...
Like this.

Development of the change right here. Side-tangent? FOCUS ON WHAT MATTERS!.

This right here is avoiding the topic. Once again, instead of answering the question, you've side-stepped it. What's the problem? It's a simple answer is it not? A simple answer would completely remove this secondary question-line in this discussion...so provide it, admit you don't know/can't describe it, or move on. Continuing to hop-scotch your way around the issue and using it back at me as if I don't have the ability to focus on what matters is extremely frustrating. I think this DOES matter (as I am aware of the hodgepodge of groups all protesting at the same time), as it showcases the unfocused and DIFFERENT aspects to the protest group.

Yes, though I think you haven't, which is obvious since you don't even seem to know what the protests are about. Like someone said, even monks went to protest, are they vandals? Anarchists? Socialists? What social group or ism do you hate? Makes me wonder where you get your news from, do the headlines read something along the lines of "g20 threatend by violent protesters"?.

You just shot yourself in the foot. The monks are not the vandals and anarchists...but vandals and anarchists are part of the protest. so instead of raging against the police sent out to PREVENT vandalism, why not focus on distancing yourself from these groups so the police "presence" isn't warranted? This, right here, is why the police are there. If there was a bunch of monks chillin asking for peace #1 they would be given a permit and #2, that goddamn speaker tank would not be in Pittsburgh.

They should have stayed, and helped the protesters that were protesting for them. Your friends just fled. They ignored reality, you seem to be very very afraid of reality..

How am I afraid of reality? Because I disagree with your politics? Frankly, I see more fear in "zomg police statz!!!" than in anything I'm suggesting. Where is my fear? What reality am I ignoring? My friends do not agree with anarchism, nor do they find value in protesting 20 of the most powerful leaders getting together and talking.
See, there is a paradox...in order for there to be a prosperous and peaceful planet, leaders have to get together and talk. When this happens, some people freak the fuck out calling it the NWO. I, and my friends (three of them total), see this as a necessary step towards peace.
So fear? That's your territory, dude, not mine.

Yeah I remember, where were you? Sitting at home? safe? I guess so, you were hiding at home probably cause vandals and anarchists were on the streets protesting, woooooo....

No, I live in NYC. I was sitting watching the television feeling sad that people trying to express their concern for global warming, banking institutions, and unfair trade agreements were being hijacked by angry masked people causing riots.
I'm a little tired of the personal attacks. Please try to keep it in check.

Let secondary questions be second, now that we're finished with your tangents and derivatives that stray us from the point that WE AMERICANS HAVE BEEN STRIPPED FROM OUR RIGHTS. .

You never answered my "secondary" question, so no we're not. But moving on....

So I'll skip all the crap about assholes who call others assholes(more categorization that leads us fucking nowhere, we need unity not segregation) because I don't see how that is irrelevant to anything, on the whole topic. I'll also skip the part about my lack of "credibility" being that what matters here is a video which shows american people being violated and stripped off of their rights. .

These people are violating the law. Please define your usage of the word "rights" as the rights of the people, as far as I ever learned in polysci, is determined by the interpretation of the constitution, bill of rights, and subsequent decisions made by local and federal courts...

I don't need "credibility" when there is DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE of what I am saying(see first video of OP again). .

I see an illegal protest that has closed a public street being dispersed without a single shot being fired. What should I be seeing here?

I will also skip the part about "there are also brainless this and brainless that" ceause again it doesn't matter what people are, what matters is YOUR RIGHTS BEING VIOLATED, who is brainless and who is not is just another of your wild tangents straying away from the main point. Lastly I will skip the part about purposes and permits of protests, mainly because IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER, FOCUS, learn to walk before running, step by step, first fight for your right, THEN exercise your right..

Permits for protests are entirely instrinsic to this discussion, so I am afraid I'm going to have to insist you address this, or this discussion will go nowhere. Again, you need to define your interepretation of "rights" because apparently your understanding of them is foreign to me.

Destruction and violence is not a way to spread a message, its a way to bring about change, its a fundamental rule of life. If you're pissed about something GO PROTEST, its your right, don't stay home getting fatter, GO PROTEST, demand a change. .

"destruction and violence...is a way to bring about change." wow dude.

I've been to many a protest in my life, thank you very much. Never once violent or based on destruction. Ergo, the only police presence I have ever seen was at the end of the march route.

Thoes people protesting and getting shot at are fighting for YOUR RIGHTS, you should be ashamed of not supporting them because if they ever happen to win and make a change you would benefit from it..

Fuck them...fighting for my rights. What are you talking about? I did not ask them to do so, I do not feel my rights being infringed upon. What would be my benefit?
I find it so ironic you opened up your response to me calling me arrogant, only to then assume your world-view is right and I should be ashamed for not agreeing with you.

Go help, stop telling everyone that its not possible, that is called insularism in my country, to think that we're so weak that we can't stop the injustices of a corrupt government..

What isn't possible? What are you talking about? What is your subject in this sentence?

WHAT INJUSTICES?! It's not INJUSTICE to be arrested at an illegal protest...thats JUSTICE. DEFINITION OF JUSTICE: The administration and procedure of law.
FFS....

Questions like this make me lose all hope in america. WHY DO YOU NEED A LEADER TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO? to tell you what is right or wrong? Can't you use your brain to know that killing is bad? .

Three or so paragraphs ago, you praised destruction and violence. good christ....
you also completely side-stepped the question I was actually posing to you which was WHAT IS YOUR PLAN? Who said I needed a leader? That word was never once mentioned. I'm asking for YOUR PLAN.

Can't you get along with your neighbors without a court order? Can't you just use your brain anymore? Do you need government to tell you what to do, how to do it and how much to pay for it all the time? DAMN..

shrug. No clue where this is coming from.

I am no leader, I can't command you into doing anything, and I won't expect you to follow any order I could give. you have to understand what is going on and act on your own, make up YOUR MIND. .

I made up my mind...apparently I'm wrong, arrogant, blind, brainless, and afraid of reality. I don't recall asking you to be my leader. I recall asking you to explain to me your plan.

If I were to give you any advice, it would be very simple, watch the videos again, and if you think the police violated their right to protest peacefully,.

Are you under the impression that it is your right to gather people anywhere you want any time you want regardless of the consequences to the common good, domestic tranquility, and ability for others to function and move without being prevented to do so by your actions? If so, this would be very illuminating.

GO PROTEST, nothing will ever change if you don't make it change, these things will continue to happen and continue to worsen until the majority of americans inevitably and systematically as it has happened throughout history, GO TO PROTEST!.

PROTEST WHAT?! leaders gathering? global warming? the entire concept of government? What are you protesting?! I didn't protest because I do not wish my voice to be associated with rioters and anarchists. I protest all the time (well, not ALL the time, but I've been to quite a few) for issues I care about.

Again, those idiots are protesting for a better world for you, me and everyone. Don't demonize the ONLY people who are sacrificing their time and lives for you, .

anarchists and rioters are not speaking for me, nor are they sacrificing their lives and time for me. And you do not speak for me either.

if anything we should sacrifice government officials who we know are corrupt, forget the legal system, they own it, just group together and go burn them on a cross for treason, you can't take down politicians using the courts, they own the courts, stop being a fool, WAKE UP, start up your brain, grab a book or two about history..

history? What history would you like to discuss?

So which is it, can all use it or can no one use it? they(protesters) were using it, and were thrown out of a public space, for using it. Do they have to use it in total silence?.

YOU can do whatever you want. ORGANIZING a protest and taking over public land (in this case, a street) is a completely different concept. You see the difference?

WTF AMERICA? Ii this how the majority of americans think? no wonder the rest of the world hates us and we need nukes to keep them form biting.

yea, they hate us for our intolerance of rioters and anarchists.

PS--- don't talk about other people's father/grandfather when you don't know them. You open yourself up to foot-in-mouth situations...

[JcP]

Heh...I've been hearing speculation that the video of the "kidnapping" was completely staged by protesters to make a point, as the uniforms don't match any kind of police or military authority nor does the car they were driving.



Hey, sounds just as plausible as the other cover-ups, right? But if it proves true, it renders this thread pure sensationalism. I'm shocked. Seriously.

I am completely uneducated about military uniforms and the like...but that's very interesting....

[zerodown]

JcP, you seem to think protesters are a threat to you and they need to be shut down before they hurt you in some way, am I wrong? Unless you are the one being protested against, I don't see how a protest scares you into forfeiting your rights unto the government. How do you claim to have a working brain when you tell me that I can do whatever I want so long as is not uniting with other people who feel like me about an issue to peacefully tell others about it? Like I said, US citizens are totally hopeless, for americans like you there is nothing wrong with the US, as long as the tv turns on everything is fine.

I won't get into this shit with your politically correct crap, the fact that you think protests are an illegal act("Are you under the impression that it is your right to gather people anywhere you want any time you want regardless of the consequences to the common good, domestic tranquility, and ability for others to function and move without being prevented to do so by your actions?") only shows that americans are not only aware that they have no rights, but they are ok with it as well. Hopeless minds.


“Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.”

Robert F. Kennedy
Capetown, June 6th 1966

[spicoli]

To me it seems as though it's happenning very slowly and subtly, this encroachment on civil liberties. If more of us did show up maybe it would be different.

Btw- the anarchists are protesting capitalism. And some others, the planning of our (the world's) economic future without the imput of the people it will impact most. Us!
Sad to think of all the money it cost to shut down city practically, and fill it with law enforcement used to brutalize our own people.

[flappy]

I don't see permits mentioned in the 1st amendment. However, permits get us, again, off the real subject.
Like it has been said before, you will never convince the "permit guys" of anything. They will always be lurking around defending what has been learned in their life,like we all do. Don't even engage them, it just distracts from the point.
Imagine telling the Sons of Liberty they needed a permit ? The American Revolution was only supported by less than 10% of the population. Most people were perfectly happy being subjects of a King. Kind of hasn't changed now. You see how some here are perfectly content with the current system of government thievery, constant war-making, oppressive and illegal taxes, organised lying by the mass media, 20% inner-city jobless rates and an economy being purposely tanked out for the benefit of the very few. The "permit guys" are happy the cops are clubbing people. It sustains, in their minds, the status quo which keeps them comfortable. They won't change until their personal world gets uncomfortable. Then they might understand why "permits" never was the issue.
("You want answers? Well, so does he" Listen live at infowars.com)

[Ego Tripping]

Btw- the anarchists are protesting capitalism.

I feel the same, but that begs the question...where did they buy their bandanas, supplies and materials to make their protest signs? Furthmore, where do they work? Interesting quagmire, eh?