The Gross Inefficiency and Ridiculous Cost of Government

[farmergiles]

to expect the government to come in, wave the magic .... wand to make things better in the long run is beyond me

That is more or less what happened when the NHS was created.

[JcP]

It is absurd to expect or require an insurance company to issue a policy to to cover a pre-existing condition. That is "not insurance".

maybe this is the entire crux of this issue. If pre-existing conditions are not coverable by our healthcare insurance industry, we do not have healthcare. We have healthcare for the healthy.

I find it inhuman and immoral to not treat and help my fellow man if they are sick, regardless of causality. If this is incompatible with the concept of "insurance" then we should not have a healthcare industry, we should have healthcare.

In my opinion, your admission that it's absurd to expect the institutions that provide healthcare coverage to cover certain people means those institutions are not the institutions I support. Healthcare should be available to everyone. Period.

This is why the capitalist model does not work for required services. If you can deny a required service to someone under a business model, that's inexcusable.

[verklingen]

maybe this is the entire crux of this issue. If pre-existing conditions are not coverable by our healthcare insurance industry, we do not have healthcare. We have healthcare for the healthy.

qft

[The Rev]

Government takes more and more as it inches into more and more corners of our lives; it never does with less. Government is a cancer, and no, Liberterians are not the cure, unless you consider laughter to be good medicine.

-Hedons

I'm definitely a freer is better person when it comes to the marketplace. There really is no way that the economy can function productively with heavy legislated and central bank interference. The problem with the free market, however, is very much like the problem with social planning, in that you need people of true honesty and integrity to protect it. The difference, of course, is that with a free market you eliminate the possibility of bad things coming from good intentions (in planning).

For a free market to function, and not simply degrade into outright anarchy (or worse, back to governmental distortion), you need to have laws in place which guarantee and protect fundamental property and personal rights. Expecting the kind of people who aspire to political success to respect that kind of non-interference philosophy is really not too different from expecting them to interfere, but only with selfless intentions. It's just not going to happen.

The Founding Fathers set up checks and balances to attempt to force humans to act in ways which reflect only one side of their nature. The old "It takes two thieves to strike an honest deal" kind of philosophy. Yet, in spite of all that effort to force everyone to keep each other honest, the constitution has been used for ass wipe almost continuously since the nation's inception.

You just can't expect humans to respect each other when they stand to gain by not doing so. All you can do is the best you can to frustrate their efforts when they strive to misbehave, and even that is only going to slow them down. There's no road back, and we are never going to get less government without revolution, and that's all there is to it.



The Rev

[Ego Tripping]

maybe this is the entire crux of this issue. If pre-existing conditions are not coverable by our healthcare insurance industry, we do not have healthcare. We have healthcare for the healthy.

Hot damn, exactly. I said it before...health care should not be a commodity.

[Ego Tripping]

There's no road back, and we are never going to get less government without revolution, and that's all there is to it.

And even if we did have one, what then?

My guess? A government. Just a different form of one.

States just need to take more matters into their own hands and that way big government is circumvented without the need of any revolution...and that movement will (and already has in many places) start in the communities, towns and cities.

But beware; this route requires people to take responsibility. Always easier to just complain about government rather than participate to improve it.

[stateofkane]

maybe this is the entire crux of this issue. If pre-existing conditions are not coverable by our healthcare insurance industry, we do not have healthcare. We have healthcare for the healthy.

I find it inhuman and immoral to not treat and help my fellow man if they are sick, regardless of causality. If this is incompatible with the concept of "insurance" then we should not have a healthcare industry, we should have healthcare.

In my opinion, your admission that it's absurd to expect the institutions that provide healthcare coverage to cover certain people means those institutions are not the institutions I support. Healthcare should be available to everyone. Period.

This is why the capitalist model does not work for required services. If you can deny a required service to someone under a business model, that's inexcusable.

Health care is a commodity. Stop blurring the lines of definitions to support your cause and if you don't believe me pull your head out of your ass and look at the stock market under: Merck. As the honorable Rush Limbaugh used to say: Words Mean Things.

So when does a service not become "required". You should be in favor of making food free, then gas, then housing, then...

[JcP]

who said anything about having healthcare be free? Pull the head out of YOUR ass, and then we can have a civil discussion.

since I never said this, please try again with a post (I assume, judging by your emotional reaction) disagreeing with my actual statements suggesting that a capitalist system combined with a necessary service doesnt work. Perhaps the addition of "without a universal option" would have made it clearer for you.

[Terry]

Health care is a commodity. Stop blurring the lines of definitions to support your cause and if you don't believe me pull your head out of your ass and look at the stock market under: Merck. As the honorable Rush Limbaugh used to say: Words Mean Things.

So when does a service not become "required". You should be in favor of making food free, then gas, then housing, then...

Again your argument is invalidated by the fact that European countries have had this system for years and are coping fine.

Ah the slippery slope argument, why take a chance at progress when it could possibly go wrong?

[stoneric]

^ Because of the ingrained notion that anything socialistic is bad.