Has Christianity finally been debunked?

[Terry]

There's no possible way to ever know one way or the other, so it just seems silly to me that people on both sides of the issue get so wrapped up in the belief that they are right.

Arguing against the Christian version of God and Jesus is valid. The Bible is full of inconsistencies and factual errors that would make any intelligent reader question its validity.

But when it comes to "God", the Entity, w/e the hell you want to call it, saying you KNOW there isn't one seems illogical to me. I understand the "I cant see god" argument and if I wanted to be a pedantic douchebag I'd use the "you can't see air dood" argument. But I won't.

I just honestly think, like the dude said earlier, agnosticism makes the most sense because in this life we just can't know either way.

[Man in Black]

Originally Posted by BearsysRevenge

Food for thought, all four gospels in the Bible; Matthew(The Tax collector and later Apostle), Mark(An apostle, not of Jesus, but of St. Peter), Luke(Apostle of Paul) and John(Disputed who the author is, scholars generally agree that John of Patmos - the author of Revelations, not Jesus' apostle) were not written by disciples of Jesus.

Mark was the first documented Gospel, and it was written anonymously and at the earliest, 70 years CE and even possibly after the Bar Kokhba Revolt(132 - 135 CE) So there's anywhere from 37-100+ years of time in between the Permanent Death of Jesus(If we take the Xian view that says Jesus was 33 at his death) and the writing of this Gospel. So there would be so much corruption, word of mouth, as everyone knows, fucks things up over time, and especially grandiose stories get even more so.

Matthew -which is identical to Mark in that no one actually knows who wrote it and was attributed to him by the church just to put some substance behind those words- and Luke were pretty much plagiarized off of Mark; and John has pretty much nothing backing it up historically. The rest of the New Testament is based off of those 4(2 if you want to be accurate) books written at least 40 years after Jesus died. But Christians refuse to acknowledge that.


[EDIT:] I forgot to put any meaning behind my post, lol. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's ridiculous that anyone accept the Bible as canonical of Jesus when no one even knows who wrote the thing.
Christians, how about you read the Gospel of Barnabas, the only Gospel written by an actual disciple of Jesus. Because first hand accounts are better. This book has been banned by the Pope on pain of eternal punishment.

Christianity was ruined as soon as the Romans adopted it. I have to agree with Tolstoy on this one.

[BearsysRevenge]

I was just thinking about how humbling it was, and how pompous and egotistical we are for coming up with religious belief placing us at the very center of this huge universe, when we are really just insignificant flashes of light within billions of years, living on this "blue dot" floating through space...

[EDIT] Yeah, Xianity was fucked up from the start.

[Legal lies]

Originally Posted by farmergiles

Come on, don`t sit on the fence.

If there's no firm ground to stand on on either side of the fence, then it's best just to stay on the fence.

[spicoli]

I'm glad the words "faith" and "free-will" were used in your arguments for or against.
I think the problem is we think we need to know everything.
I am a Christian, and I believe that He lets us know what we need to know, when we need to know it. I have faith that He knows better than I do. To some, that sounds like ignorance, to trust a being that you've never seen and can't touch. That mysticism is what keeps me faithfull. I don't need proof. I already have it in my heart.
As strong as my faith is, I don't judge others for their beliefs. I respect others rights to religious freedom, or not to practice at all. I just love that this discussion even ended up on this forum!!!

[BearsysRevenge]

Welcome to the forums, and I hate to jump right on you, but why do you believe in the Christian god, like aside from your faith? It must have come from somewhere, so if you don't mind me asking... where did it come from?

[anaujiram]

I think that if there's a god, it doesn't give a fuck whether we believe in it or not.

Only read the first few posts, so I don't know if this still applies to what's being discussed, but whatever.

[zugg]

This article is easily the biggest peice of bullshit ever put on the internet. First off, if this sways you to/from Christianity, you were probably in special ed in school, and I'm surprised you can even type. This is all a rant some guy posted on his website. This is nothing more than some athiest's personal view of Christianity.

I don't have anything against people worshiping Christianity. If the Christians would just go off amongst themselves and worship amongst themselves and mind their own business there would be no problem. But, unfortunately, that just simply is not the reality.

I seem to recall the White Seperatist movement has this same view, only toward non White peoples.

It is they who are always waging a war against gays. It is they who are always waging a war against people who are pro-abortion. It is they who are always waging a war against what our kids are taught, or aren't taught, in school - evolution, for instance. It is they who are always waging a war against gay marriage.

We fundamentally believe murder is wrong. Killing babies is murder. We also believe sodomy is wrong. Extremely wrong, sick, and disgusting. Of course we will fight for what we believe in! I do believe, however, we're going about it a little more sensibly than "waging war." We're not muslims, and this isn't a jihad.

In recent years the Christians have taken to reminding us that the United States was founded by Christians. I interpret that to mean that they think that that gives them the right to force their ways down everyone else's throat.

No, this gives us the right to not have YOUR ideas and ways down OUR throat. You don't like the United States? That's fine. Keep it to your fucking self, or go live in Russia. They give everyone a fair say in the Motherland.

The first issue that I have with Christianity is if Jesus Christ was the son of God then why didn't he tell the people during his time that the Earth was round and that it orbited the sun? It isn't unreasonable to expect that the son of the being who supposedly created the solar system would have known that. Why didn't Jesus tell people that there were huge continents on the other side of the planet that were inhabited by tens of thousands of people? Why didn't Jesus tell his followers about the things that make people sick? Wasn't healing supposed to be one of his things? Well, why didn't he tell people about viruses and bacteria? The reason, of course, is because Jesus obviously knew little about the natural world.

First, this happened thousands of years ago. Not only is it impossible to know the intentions of someone that long ago, it's impossible to know the mindset of the average person. It's been so long, a person from his time would probably have a heart attack if he saw a helicopter. Maybe it was in their best interests? Maybe he had his own agenda that didn't involve anyone? Second, who the hell is this guy to try and reason what a GOD is thinking? That proves mental handicap right there. If anyone has any understanding of deities and gods outside of Hercules and Xena Warrior Princess, you'd realize that it's impossible for your tiny, minute, useless little mind to compute even the smallest thought in his.

And to drive that point home even further, keep in mind that Christian scholars even claim that, according to certain passages in the Bible, Jesus and God were actually one in the same. God was Jesus. Jesus was God. The bottom line is that there's certain things that Jesus Christ should've known if he was really who the Christians say he was, but he didn't.

The Holy Trinity. This guy has never even read the Bible. These are the nonsensical rants of some 16 year old kid who needs something to rage against, just like whoever posted this nonsense on this, the one good message board left to read. As for the things that Jesus "should've known" - How can you 100% positively say he didn't? I know, I can't prove he knew, you can't prove he didn't. That's why it is so supremely STUPID to post something like this to a POT SMOKER message board. Stoned people love to talk about things that make no sense and can't be dis/proven.

You know, I have a rebuttal to every single sentence that idiot wrote, but it's a waste of time. Like I said before, if a paper like this sways you to or from a religion, your brain is about as big as a peanut. How about doing a little research before making ridiculous claims like the shit in this paper?

[Terry]

Dude I can see what you're trying to say, but the pro-life anti-gay rant just backs up the OP's point.

[zugg]

I don't mean to preach man, it's just what I believe. And I'm not to attack him or anyone. I just felt the need to input my opinion, you know? As you can see, I have all of 3 or 4 posts. And this is the main message board I read. Sorry if I offended anybody.

EDIT: I love Big Kahuna Burgers

[BearsysRevenge]

Your whole post has pretty much been argumentum ad hominem. It's hard for you to be taken seriously when all you do is attack the author and then the posters on this board(and therefore yourself).

[Edit: Saw your and Terry's post too late]

[citizen abuse]

Originally Posted by spicoli

I'm glad the words "faith" and "free-will" were used in your arguments for or against.
I think the problem is we think we need to know everything.
I am a Christian, and I believe that He lets us know what we need to know, when we need to know it. I have faith that He knows better than I do. To some, that sounds like ignorance, to trust a being that you've never seen and can't touch. That mysticism is what keeps me faithfull. I don't need proof. I already have it in my heart.
As strong as my faith is, I don't judge others for their beliefs. I respect others rights to religious freedom, or not to practice at all. I just love that this discussion even ended up on this forum!!!

Have you ever considered coming in from the cold and becoming an atheist?

[verklingen]

^ what cold? he seems happy enough, and willing to let others do what makes them happy without passing judgment. your arrogance is astounding.

[jagarr]

that article sucked - sorry...
christ-titty is still BS though.

[burnt_hiphophead]

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

I think the piece makes clear what the point is. As it points out, everything we know about Jesus is strictly hearsay. If this guy was who the Christians say he was there should be other observable facts to support the claims. If Jesus had just dropped one little tidbit or fact about the natural world that the son of a creator should have most certainly known it would go a long way towards backing up the claims. But there's nothing there. It's an issue of credibility.

Well, DUH. The rules of evidence don't apply to religion. That's why people say they have faith, not indisputable proof of God's existence.

I think it's real safe to say that, no, Christianity has not been debunked by this article. People will believe whatever they want. I think that the longevity of the religion and the number of people who still practice IS proof that Christianity will be around long after any of us are.

[citizen abuse]

Originally Posted by burnt_hiphophead

Well, DUH. The rules of evidence don't apply to religion. That's why people say they have faith, not indisputable proof of God's existence.

I think it's real safe to say that, no, Christianity has not been debunked by this article. People will believe whatever they want. I think that the longevity of the religion and the number of people who still practice IS proof that Christianity will be around long after any of us are.

Some people don't need much proof, if any, to believe something. Obviously, there are some people who will believe that some individual was the son of a being that created the solar system and life just on the basis of someone else saying that and nothing more. But to make the claim that someone was the son of a being that created the solar system and life is pretty serious stuff. There's people who aren't going to believe something like that strictly on the basis of hearsay. And I agree with those people when they say that the claim should be very easy to prove if it was true. And the fact is the proof isn't there.

I also disagree when you say the piece doesn't debunk Christianity. I can't see how any rationally minded person can read it and still attach any credibility to Christianity.

[burnt_hiphophead]

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Some people don't need much proof, if any, to believe something. Obviously, there are some people who will believe that some individual was the son of a being that created the solar system and life just on the basis of someone else saying that and nothing more. But to make the claim that someone was the son of a being that created the solar system and life is pretty serious stuff. There's people who aren't going to believe something like that strictly on the basis of hearsay. And I agree with those people when they say that the claim should be very easy to prove if it was true. And the fact is the proof isn't there.

I also disagree when you say the piece doesn't debunk Christianity. I can't see how any rationally minded person can read it and still attach any credibility to Christianity.

Agree to disagree. I do see your point that believing in Christianity can't really be backed up by real proof, but all I'm saying is that those who believe do so on the basis of faith, not proof.