Has Christianity finally been debunked?

[kamikazi89]

i',m certain the moving image can be rather easily manipulated

[JcP]

Originally Posted by kamikazi89

i',m certain the moving image can be rather easily manipulated

and detected.

[kamikazi89]

and sometmes not untill after it's "too late"

wink wink

[JcP]

no idea what that means in reference to this topic.

wink wink.

[kamikazi89]

just give it some time
..that's all)
occupied terrortories

[citizen abuse]

The essay that this thread is based on more than lives up to its title. All it does is just make the simple, easy-to-understand, point that if the Christian god and his son were who the Christians say they were there would be certain things that people should expect to see when looking back at the period. It gives several examples that in and of themselves alone would be knockout blows to any notion that the Christian god and his son were who the Christians say they were. For example, it points out that Jesus didn't tell his followers about the huge land masses on the other side of the planet. People who read the essay keep missing the significance of that point. Here's the significance:

It was very important to Jesus for his followers to go out and spread his message. In fact, that's what spreading the gospel means, it goes all the way back to Jesus himself. Only an ignorant fool, therefore, would argue that it wasn't very much in Jesus' interest to tell his followers about the huge land masses on the other side of the planet that were inhabited by tens of thousands of people that they weren't aware of even existed. But Jesus didn't. The reason he didn't is because the so-called son of the being who supposedly created the Earth didn't even know what in the hell the Earth was shaped like nor who or what was on it.

Knockout blow!

Case closed!!

The final debunking of Christianity!!!

[verklingen]

^ the conclusions you outline hang on at least as many assumptions as modern organized christianity.

[matthewmunari]

<CITIZEN ABUSE>It was very important to Jesus for his followers to go out and spread his message. In fact, that's what spreading the gospel means, it goes all the way back to Jesus himself. Only an ignorant fool, therefore, would argue that it wasn't very much in Jesu<Cs' interest to tell his followers about the huge land masses on the other side of the planet that were inhabited by tens of thousands of people that they were n't aware of even existed. But Jesus didn't. The reason he didn't is because the so-called son of the being who supposedly created the Earth didn't even know what in the hell the Earth was shaped like nor who or what was on it.
end quote............... ...................




me
.................... .................... .................... .................... .................... .... They were living in a time where the people were evolving SLOWLY......Jesus didn't know he was the Son of God until he was much older, when he finally did know, he did his bidding...Its all relative to the apex of knowledge a culture has reached..It wasnt relavent to the masses that there were people (some believe Jesus came to America) on the opposite side of the continent..the Earth was still flat to them.....and the Jews who lived in the Holy Land ALL must have a common Deiity..........Muha mmhed, Mythra,Jesus,Bhudda .......all come from the East, 2 from the SAME 100x100 ft. piece of land (not born of man, born of God,spirit) So the finality of your last statement was pre-dated...



M@

[citizen abuse]

Originally Posted by verklingen

^ the conclusions you outline hang on at least as many assumptions as modern organized christianity.

OK, verklingen. Let's put your intelligence to the test. I've drawn up a simple 3-question IQ test. I rather affectionately refer to it as citizen abuse's IQ test.

Question #1) Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

It was very important to Jesus for his followers to go forth and spread his message.

Question #2) If the answer to Question #1 was "yes," do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

It was therefore in Jesus's interests to tell his followers about people who inhabitted the globe that they weren't aware of existed.

Question #3) Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

Because Jesus was not only the son of the being who created the planet Earth and all life but also one in the same with that being, it's very reasonable to believe that Jesus would've known about the people who were living on the other side of the planet.

There you go, verklingen, only three simple, easy questions.

[verklingen]

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

OK, verklingen. Let's put your intelligence to the test. I've drawn up a simple 3-question IQ test. I rather affectionately refer to it as citizen abuse's IQ test.

k

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Question #1) Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

It was very important to Jesus for his followers to go forth and spread his message.

agree

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Question #2) If the answer to Question #1 was "yes," do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

It was therefore in Jesus's interests to tell his followers about people who inhabitted the globe that they weren't aware of existed.

well the answer wasn't "yes" because that's not how you phrased the question, but i'll oblige your massive intellect and answer anyway:

there were plenty people around to preach jesus' word to. they preached to everyone they could, and never wanted for new ears. what purpose would it serve for jesus to let them know about people living thousands of miles away on the other end of the globe, across an ocean none of them would ever see and which wouldn't be crossed for another 1000+ years?

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Question #3) Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

Because Jesus was not only the son of the being who created the planet Earth and all life but also one in the same with that being, it's very reasonable to believe that Jesus would've known about the people who were living on the other side of the planet.

i don't even know exactly what in the fuck god him/her/itself may be all about, how can i assume anything about the son of god? this is a really silly argument. assumptions can be fun, but they don't get us anywhere.

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

There you go, verklingen, only three simple, easy questions.

it was a pleasure.

[JcP]

Sorry, but I have to reply to this gem:

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Question #1) Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

It was very important to Jesus for his followers to go forth and spread his message..

Agreed. or, YES

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Question #2) If the answer to Question #1 was "yes," do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

It was therefore in Jesus's interests to tell his followers about people who inhabitted the globe that they weren't aware of existed..

A completely irrelevant jump in logic. Why would it be in his interest to tell his followers of people on other continents when 1) they couldn't get to them and 2) they had plenty of people to speak to in their own backyard.
You start close to home and work your way outward. Seems to me christianity spread to the americas with no problem whatsoever.

If you are going to start a clothing store in a small town in Iowa, do you make sure your employees get to know the local market, or do you want them focusing on the mongolian fashion this year? If and when your clothing store goes international, then yea, pay attention to mongolia.

By spreading his message in europe and the middle east, Christianity was aboard every single vessel when they headed to the "new world."

sillyness.

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Question #3) Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

Because Jesus was not only the son of the being who created the planet Earth and all life but also one in the same with that being, it's very reasonable to believe that Jesus would've known about the people who were living on the other side of the planet..

No way to know, but whatever...Yes, agreed.

I hope I passed your test!!!

[matthewmunari]

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

OK, verklingen. Let's put your intelligence to the test. I've drawn up a simple 3-question IQ test. I rather affectionately refer to it as citizen abuse's IQ test.

Question #1) Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

It was very important to Jesus for his followers to go forth and spread his message.

Question #2) If the answer to Question #1 was "yes," do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

It was therefore in Jesus's interests to tell his followers about people who inhabitted the globe that they weren't aware of existed.

Question #3) Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

Because Jesus was not only the son of the being who created the planet Earth and all life but also one in the same with that being, it's very reasonable to believe that Jesus would've known about the people who were living on the other side of the planet.

There you go, verklingen, only three simple, easy questions.

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How do you account for his lost years? 7 - 30?? he was rumoured to come to america (mormonism), and he travelled exstensivley....WE will never know in our lifetime if he existed, but I tell you this, if I were you, I'd be prone to take the "just in case" theory/side, cuz if it is true, we have paradise to look forward to....i keep thinking about 9-11... ALL THE INSTANT FATALITIES..... man, before that you had the Oklahoma bombing(by an American).....the Gov't set up 9/11...........

please someone, anyone.............. ...
.
.
.

EXPLAIN BUILDING 7.....


thanks,
m@

[ziplock]

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Even though I feel that this response is not worthy of a response from me, as soon as time permits I'll demonstrate just how unworthy it is.

How about mine, then?

First, before we go through the facts you brought up, we have a consideration to make. That is that this whole line of reasoning is in relation to a certain definition of God, a certain definition of Jesus, and a certain defined relationship and interaction between the two. This narrows it's scope considerably to only those who hold those definitions. To say that it debunks Christianity is then inaccurate.

Basically, the characteristics of one's belief in Christianity is completely subjective. Thus the great variations in interpretations of the Bible, so on and so forth. This line of argument is only valid if we are to deny it it's subjective nature and form "hard" definitions. We then blanket all Christians with these definitions which is fallacious.

So on to the "facts." I hate that word...

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Fact: Everything we know about Jesus is hearsay

Did Jesus Exist -- The Probing Mind <- Interesting read. Yes, basically everything we know about Jesus is hearsay. Nit-picking this doesn't really serve a purpose.

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Fact: Jesus didn't exhibit any knowledge of the natural world

This one I dunno. I don't think you can say that anyone doesn't exhibit some knowledge of the natural world. It's too general a remark. This is also where we begin to assume that Jesus was able to make available to him certain kinds of specific knowledge.

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Fact: Outside of his inner circle, practically no one else who came in contact with him believed Jesus was the son of God. And to this day, Hindis, Muslims and Budhists still don't believe Jesus was the son of God.

Cannot be said to be fact. To follow up "Fact: Everything we know about Jesus is hearsay" with this is not really logically consistent. If the very existence of Jesus himself is suspect, then how can we possibly begin to determine if people who came in contact with him believed he was the son of God. We can't say that it is fact that these equally "possible" people who came in contact with him didn't believe him. If we give historical credibility with the people that came in contact with him and their interaction with him, we subsequently give historical credibility to the existence of Jesus. Thus it cancels out your first fact if it is indeed fact.

Also, Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet. Take that as you will. It isn't "the son of God" in a sense.

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Fact: The Christian god would have to cast judgment on people at the rate of almost two people per second

This presumes that the Christian God would be bound by physical law. Really, the Christian God in as far as I know all definitions/interpretations is the creator of time thus necessitating God to be beyond time. Our calculations of a rate of judgment really serve no purpose as they are inapplicable. Interesting thought though nonetheless. Lol.

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Fact: The Christian god cannot make himself visible in the here and now, in realtime, for everyone's eyes to see

This starts defining God very specifically. It could be said God has made "himself visible in the here and now, in realtime, for everyone's eyes to see" as he IS in essence the here and now, the realtime, everything everyone's eyes see. So it's completely relative to definition. It can't be called fact.

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Fact: The only evidence for the Christian god is supposedly some people who thousands of years ago supposedly heard a voice.

Same applies as above. It also presumes an individual's "evidence" or "reason" for believing such a God and reduces it to the expressions of these voice-hearing people.

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Fact: People who came in contact with Jesus weren't overwhelmed with awe.

Refer to fact #2.

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Fact: Over 200,000 people were killed by the sunami of 2004 and then sent on to hell.

This one doesn't need explaining, yes?

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

Have the detractors finally realized the futility of their efforts and finally decided to throw in the towel? Looks like there's only one thing left for you to do - come over to the Atheist side!

Ah Atheism... If only there were a world so black and white.