Enlightenment and The One Great Family of Life

[JainVeganBuddha]

THE TRANSMISSION

This knowledge is manifested by the incarnate scions of the Great Spirit, the People of the Sun, the Awakened Ones. If one receives it and tries to understand it with an open and humble mind, then the ultimate result will be profound spiritual enlightenment, transcendence of the states and worlds of suffering, and entry into pure and luminous worlds free from all sufferings.

ONENESS

ALTHOUGH the manifold beings and things of the world seem to exist in separateness and individuality...

ALL ARE ONE

The features of ego and separation are real in a sense, but such perception is incomplete. One who has profound realization of ALL-INCLUSIVE ONENESS, through contemplation, meditation, purification, and learning from qualified individuals or their teachings experiences a kind of rebirth in the enlightened state.

Through careful gradual observation and acute perception one may realize that all life forms exist in inter-dependent systems. this inter-dependence hints at our ultimate oneness. Going yet beyond the Earthly realm into the cosmos and infinite universe, one may realize our oneness with all light and all energy. In this world, this great source of life and oneness is the Sun--from which all warmth and all Life come forth.

PROFOUND COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS

We, in our greater universal Self, are therefore beings of subtle light and energy, transcendent of all temporary material manifestations. Our greater Self is never subject to death and non-existence...and our consciousness is part of a great collective-consciousness that is ever-present in all beings and things.

The experience of profound realization of collective consciousness, often arising from within the depths of advanced meditation, entails a first glimpse of --and irreversible merging with-- the collective consciousness of the Great Spirit.

The result is a new state of consciousness in which one becomes a FULLY-CONSCIOUS MANIFESTATION OF THE GREAT SPIRIT OF LIFE..and through this comes the release from mundane anxieties, a new sense of wonder, all majestic and pure qualities, and advanced knowledge and intuition regarding all beings and things in the vast universe.

SPONTANEOUS COMPASSION AND NONVIOLENCE

In this state one becomes as the loving and caring parent of all living things. From the smallest micro-organism to the most complex beings, one will practice very advanced kindness, helpfulness, friendliness, and gentleness toward all...and in this way and in this ripened state one gradually transcends all entanglement in the karmas and reactions associated with matter, incarnation, suffering, and death (the chain of temporary existences).

Yet the true heights of profound enlightenment will not be found in any teachings, words, or mere mental understandings.... but through true personal realization born of looking deeply within oneself and finding the common TRUTH that all worthy teachings merely point to.

METHOD OF MEDITATION

The method of meditation entails deep silence. Silence and stillness of the body and the mind. The body is brought to rest in one of many comfortable meditation positions or 'asanas'. The mind is brought to rest by maintaining single focus upon the gentle and natural flow of the breath, and this breath-focus gradually eclipses all various mental wanderings, thoughts, and tensions.

METHOD OF PURIFICATION

The method of purification entails maintaining proper health and bodily cleanliness, discrimination regarding what is allowed to enter through the senses, and purely vegetarian dietary practice. these purifications affect the energy and consciousness within the body, allowing one to enter into advanced depths of meditation and serenity.

THE GATEWAY

From within the depths of a great transcendental silence and stillness that exists within each of us, opens a gateway to full profound collective-consciousness and a great and vast enlightenment that is beyond all mundane words and descriptions.

THE SOURCE

This great knowledge and enlightenment has existed among the simple and natural peoples who are the scions of the Sun and the Light, at times reaching great heights of culture and civilization-- but always living close to the Earth in simple and natural states of nature. Yet these understandings are not dependent upon any outer teachings or culture. they are manifest in the being and consciousness of these peoples. and though they may appear to diminish or become lost at times, they will always re-emerge and manifest in the proper conditions and at the proper time.

[Float to Shore]

[verklingen]

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

METHOD OF PURIFICATION

The method of purification entails maintaining proper health and bodily cleanliness, discrimination regarding what is allowed to enter through the senses, and purely vegetarian dietary practice. these purifications affect the energy and consciousness within the body, allowing one to enter into advanced depths of meditation and serenity.

why a "purely vegetarian dietary practice?" earlier in this article the inherent inter-dependence of all life-forms is hinted at. . . why limit human inter-dependence to vegetation? plants are no different from animals in that they both are grown only to die and both serve their use to those who will partake of them, why make a special case for either and demand everyone follow suit? the problem here i think is a problem of appreciation.

we must appreciate these beings which share their life with us, who live their life for us. we must appreciate that in the inter-connectedness of All, we too serve them in the balance of existence. in such a state of gratitude there is no victim, only energies influencing energies in an eternal symbiosis which is the development of Creation.

respect, love, and cherish the energies as YOU choose to engage them, and remember that to ridicule another's chosen method of engagement shows, above all, discourtesy to yourself in that you are mocking your relation to The One Great Family of Life.

[Mescalito]

^I killed a chicken a week or so ago for the first time.. and well... respect to the chicken for it was nice.

M

[JainVeganBuddha]

Originally Posted by verklingen

why a "purely vegetarian dietary practice?" earlier in this article the inherent inter-dependence of all life-forms is hinted at. . . why limit human inter-dependence to vegetation? plants are no different from animals in that they both are grown only to die and both serve their use to those who will partake of them, why make a special case for either and demand everyone follow suit? the problem here i think is a problem of appreciation.

we must appreciate these beings which share their life with us, who live their life for us. we must appreciate that in the inter-connectedness of All, we too serve them in the balance of existence. in such a state of gratitude there is no victim, only energies influencing energies in an eternal symbiosis which is the development of Creation.

respect, love, and cherish the energies as YOU choose to engage them, and remember that to ridicule another's chosen method of engagement shows, above all, discourtesy to yourself in that you are mocking your relation to The One Great Family of Life.

Hi,
this is an excellent question, and definitely one that crossed my mind when posting. On answer is that the non-vegetarian foods perpetuate disturbing karmas and incarnation. such foods also lower the consciousness level and disrupt the deep connection and serenity required for successful meditation, samadhi, and awakening.

to explain why this is: although there is a definite natural aspect to non-vegetarian energy consumption and the various food chains and pyramids, the non-veg are to be considered as lower level. some beings may develop upon pure vegetarian lineages within multiple incarnations including animals or even insects...as well as humans. this is the science of subtle vibrations and energies.

The pure intelligent energy and warmth of life comes to us through the sun. coming from the sun the energy has all pure and 'divine' or wholesome qualities. the essence of the source carries the subtle qualities of intelligence, gentleness, high-level consciousness and awareness, love, kindness, etc... that energy is used by various plants in the slow and miraculous processes of life to create various plants, algae, fruits, flowers, vegetables, etc. Like the harmony and nice subtle qualities of a field of plants or a tree, these types of foods contain the pure source energies in their original form. those souls who desire kindness, gentleness, purity, wholesomeness, and good health will consume these preferentially and benefit from their pure qualities to grow in health, pure consciousness, kindness, understanding, and nonviolent qualities.

Various kinds of beings consume the pure plant foods for their sustenance, and they get the pure energies to nourish their life within themselves. But when we try to take this life energy from other highly sentient, conscious beings like ourselves (animals etc), the pure life energy becomes polluted and distorted by the subtle essences of fear, pain, panic, struggle, and cruel death. there is a much different vibe on plant vs animal foods for this reason. People must undertake all sorts of cruel, cunning, vicious, and violent behaviors to eat them as well including imprisoning, capturing/trapping, killing/slaughtering, and others. Thus, consuming non-vegetarian foods draws these dark, unsettled subtle essences into ourselves as well as original life energy. These polluted energies affect our minds, perception, volition, consciousness, behavior, personalities, bodily health, karma, and our entire life path. this is the subtle science to diet, karma, and life.

The path of surviving on foods closely associated with all types of conscious willful cruelness, violence, and grotesque sensory experiences puts us into a different mode of life that is akin to a type of vampirism...rather than taking from the pure original source, we are taking in an improper way that will ultimately bring us suffering and experiences like those of our unfortunate victims. this causes beings to perpetually reincarnate in various carnivorous forms, and also in the forms that are consumed by carnivores. This is a karmic cycle with no obvious exit. As carnivores, negative energy builds due to cruel and vicious behavior and negatively charged energies; as victims, beings experience all types of frustration, struggle, anger, and desire to fight off their attackers...a downward spiral...this cycle of dark incarnation continues until at some point the soul, tired of strife and violence... makes a conscious decision to turn away from violence and cruelty...at which time conditions will gradually manifest where an alternate path or fortunate situation will arise providing the opportunity for transition.

as humans we are fortunate to be able to contemplate these things and make a conscious decision toward the good, the light, kindness, gentleness, and nourishment that causes the least possible harm and suffering to other life forms. this path will benefit our health and all spiritual practices and qualities and lead to pure advanced worlds where the lower types of beings and activities are no longer present.

in conclusion, we should not be egoistic and claim violence and carnivorism as some intrinsic part of who we are. for all living beings dread cruelty, violence, fear, imprisonment, suffering etc. our true divine nature is one of kindness, gentleness, friendship, helping and consideration for all other life forms. in this mode of behavior, we are in harmony with the essence of the original source and will draw ourselves to higher forms and worlds of life where greater bliss, friendship, security, and happiness will be abundant. nor should we seek to imitate the beings in violent stages and phases of existence. this is just a natural stage of life that some--but not all--beings go through because there are infinite possibilities and many just have to go through the very hard and traumatic experiences to achieve true learning and understanding of gentleness, harmony, and nonviolence.

sorry know that was very long, but I hope that was informative and clarifies the full range of diverse considerations within the question.

[verklingen]

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

Hi,
this is an excellent question, and definitely one that crossed my mind when posting. On answer is that the non-vegetarian foods perpetuate disturbing karmas and incarnation. such foods also lower the consciousness level and disrupt the deep connection and serenity required for successful meditation, samadhi, and awakening.

to briefly explain why this is: although there is a definite natural aspect to non-vegetarian energy consumption and the various food chains and pyramids, the non-veg are to be considered as lower level. some beings may develop upon pure vegetarian lineages within multiple incarnations including animals or even insects...as well as humans. this is the science of subtle vibrations and energies.

considered as lower level by whom? it may interest you to know that i was for some time i was a krishna devotee, so i understand that this concept originates from ancient hindu tradition. but there are other traditions -- every bit as valid as those of the hindus -- which expressly dictate a diet including certain animals and excluding others.

my point here is that any tradition will seek to justify itself, and these justifications invariably deny the validity of belief in any other way.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

The pure intelligent energy and warmth of life comes to us through the sun. coming from the sun the energy has all pure and 'divine' or wholesome qualities. the essence of the source carries the subtle qualities of intelligence, gentleness, high-level consciousness and awareness, love, kindness, etc... that energy is used by various plants in the slow and miraculous processes of life to create various plants, algae, fruits, flowers, vegetables, etc. Like the harmony and nice subtle qualities of a field of plants or a tree, these types of foods contain the pure source energies in their original form. those souls who desire kindness, gentleness, purity, wholesomeness, and good health will consume these preferentially and benefit from their pure qualities to grow in health, pure consciousness, kindness, understanding, and nonviolent qualities.

that's a neat idea, but like any belief the idea is only worth whatever stock one puts in it. i could just as easily say that the earth is representative of material entanglement and that plants, which sprout from the earth, carry elements of low-level consciousness which is passed on to whoever eats them. thus i could argue that it's better to eat the animals which eat the plants -- or better yet, the animals which eat the animals which eat the plants -- because the base material energy siphoned from the earth has been expended somewhat in the animation of their body.

that's the thing about beliefs: we can take them to any conclusion you like. and that's perfectly fine. it only becomes a problem when we try to impose our conclusion on someone who has reached one of their own.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

Various kinds of beings consume the pure plant foods for their sustenance, and they get the pure energies to nourish their life within themselves. But when we try to take this life energy from other highly sentient, conscious beings like ourselves (animals etc), the pure life energy becomes polluted and distorted by the subtle essences of fear, pain, panic, struggle, and cruel death. there is a much different vibe on plant vs animal foods for this reason. People must undertake all sorts of cruel, cunning, vicious, and violent behaviors to eat them as well including imprisoning, capturing/trapping, killing/slaughtering, and others. Thus, consuming non-vegetarian foods draws these dark, unsettled subtle essences into ourselves as well as original life energy. These polluted energies affect our minds, perception, volition, consciousness, behavior, personalities, bodily health, karma, and our entire life path. this is the subtle science to diet, karma, and life.

i agree that industrialized meat harvesting is a terrible cruelty, but equating the act of eating meat with those atrocities is a bit short-sighted. for example, there are stories of native american shamans calling wild buffalo to lay before them to be killed to feed the tribe. would the life energy of such buffalo be likewise polluted, and would this pollution be passed on to those who eat? or would the whole process simply be indicative of the circle of life as understood by the native americans?

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

The path of surviving on foods closely associated with all types of conscious willful cruelness, violence, and grotesque sensory experiences puts us into a different mode of life that is akin to a type of vampirism...rather than taking from the pure original source, we are taking in an improper way that will ultimately bring us suffering and experiences like those of our unfortunate victims. this causes beings to perpetually reincarnate in various carnivorous forms, and also in the forms that are consumed by carnivores. This is a karmic cycle with no obvious exit. As carnivores, negative energy builds due to cruel and vicious behavior and negatively charged energies; as victims, beings experience all types of frustration, struggle, anger, and desire to fight off their attackers...a downward spiral...this cycle of dark incarnation continues until at some point the soul, tired of strife and violence... makes a conscious decision to turn away from violence and cruelty...at which time conditions will gradually manifest where an alternate path or fortunate situation will arise providing the opportunity for transition.

i've already explained how victimization has no place in The One Great Family of Life.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

as humans we are fortunate to be able to contemplate these things and make a conscious decision toward the good, the light, kindness, gentleness, and nourishment that causes the least possible harm and suffering to other life forms. this path will benefit our health and all spiritual practices and qualities and lead to pure advanced worlds where the lower types of beings and activities are no longer present.

"least possible harm" is still harm. this is why i take harm completely out of the equation and denounce any sense of victimization. eating is part of survival in this realm. life begets life and life eats life. there is no harm, only a progression and unfoldment of energy. we are eating ourselves to sustain our own growth: this cannot be escaped no matter what diet one adopts. . . and the proper direction of that growth is to be determined by nothing other than the consciousness experiencing it.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

in conclusion, we should not be egoistic and claim violence and carnivorism as some intrinsic part of who we are. for all living beings dread cruelty, violence, fear, imprisonment, suffering etc. our true divine nature is one of kindness, gentleness, friendship, helping and consideration for all other life forms. in this mode of behavior, we are in harmony with the essence of the original source and will draw ourselves to higher forms and worlds of life where greater bliss, friendship, security, and happiness will be abundant. nor should we seek to imitate the beings in violent stages and phases of existence. this is just a natural stage of life that some--but not all--beings go through because there are infinite possibilities and many just have to go through the very hard and traumatic experiences to achieve true learning and understanding of gentleness, harmony, and nonviolence.

sorry know that was very long, but I hope that was informative and clarifies the full range of diverse considerations within the question.

i personally believe that as our energy evolves we will develop methods of sustenance which originate from the self. this is already the case actually, we just experience it differently because our conception of "self" is fragmented. but for now, eat and be eaten is the way of it and no one should be debased for their personal negotiation of it.

thanks for taking the time to illustrate your beliefs, i really appreciate it.

[JainVeganBuddha]

hi,

the practice of nonviolence, vegetarianism, animal rights, and friendship/harmony with animals is pre-hindu, pre-jain, and in my understanding originated from the ancient peoples of africa who migrated to india to establish jain culture (very dark afro-asiatic indians found now mostly in the south of India)...but yeah, the vedic/hindu/krishna thing is not only far removed from the true practices found in india, but also rooted in imperialism and racism/classism.

the points of energy and consciousness are not ideas, they are knowledge that coincides with the true results of the purification practice. the knowledge is based on true experience and not mere ideas.

it seems to me like you are trying to justify your own behaviors with intellectual rationalization, and perhaps you have succumb to the activity and influence of the general masses? imo, action should be based on intellect and insight through true practice and experimentation not the other way around....and i have never seen any animal lay down to willfully be killed. they generally run away and struggle do they not?? lets not indulge in myths that seem irrational.

growth and life are not uni-directional. you can grow and live toward the dark side of things or toward the light and good. all living entails some harm, but it should be minimized to the furthest ability of carefulness and conscious non-violence/non-harming-taking sensitivities and qualities of different types of beings into consideration.

also, it seems that you are talking just about this earthly realm, but you should consider that there are many other worlds and realms of different qualities and nature--both better and worse than this one. the choice is up to you, of course. your own karma is in your own hands. you can astrally explore and have experiences of other worlds through weakening the bonds of incarnation through purification and meditation practice.

yes thanks for the communication. this is not meant to debase anyone...just to inform anyone interested in finding ways of achieving better health and fitness, advancing consciousness and meditation, and transcending negative karmas and sufferings. these are not personal beliefs i just made up...nor are they ones i just blindly accepted. i understand how the krishnas could leave you with a bad taste in the mouth, but you should understand that they are nothing like real indians (front religion linked to masons and illuminati), and even so represent the imperialistic culture of violent oppressive invaders into india with propaganda etc. i have studied numerous ancient cultures and religions and found the purest and most advanced knowledge that is time-tested, shows real results, has the most kind and nice people, and leads to profound experiences. i suggest you do your own experimentation with veganism and meditation for a period of sufficient time and see how you feel and experiences you have for yourself. also try keeping careful association for birds of a feather flock together in like karmic directions. ultimately, the results and benefits will be yours alone so choose how you treat all other beings carefully. i suggest you treat them all the same way you wish to be treated, cuz thats just how things work. you get what you give.

[verklingen]

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

the points of energy and consciousness are not ideas, they are knowledge that coincides with the true results of the purification practice. the knowledge is based on true experience and not mere ideas.

EVERYTHING is an idea. your experiences lend faith to certain ideas and these ideas become your belief.

what in the world is "true" experience? is there an untrue experience?

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

it seems to me like you are trying to justify your own behaviors with intellectual rationalization, and perhaps you have succumb to the activity and influence of the general masses? imo, action should be based on intellect and insight through true practice and experimentation not the other way around

i'm not justifying anything, just explaining my sentiment as to why moral absolutes are flawed. get off your high horse and maybe we can meet as the equals we are and, perhaps, both come away better for this discussion.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

....and i have never seen any animal lay down to willfully be killed. they generally run away and struggle do they not?? lets not indulge in myths that seem irrational.

neither have i, but i suppose it's at least as likely as someone who likes eating meat reincarnating as a tiger or whatever.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

growth and life are not uni-directional. you can grow and live toward the dark side of things or toward the light and good. all living entails some harm, but it should be minimized to the furthest ability of carefulness and conscious non-violence/non-harming-taking sensitivities and qualities of different types of beings into consideration.

growth is certainly uni-directional. growth occurs through the process of integration, when something becomes more than the sum of its parts. living toward "the dark side of things" tends to maintain division, and is therefor the absence of growth.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

also, it seems that you are talking just about this earthly realm, but you should consider that there are many other worlds and realms of different qualities and nature--both better and worse than this one. the choice is up to you, of course. your own karma is in your own hands. you can astrally explore and have experiences of other worlds through weakening the bonds of incarnation through purification and meditation practice.

all i see and know -- indeed, all i CAN see and know -- is this moment right now, and that's all that matters to me. the choice IS up to me: to create harmony or discord in this moment. this isn't taking karma into my own hands, this is becoming free of karma by abandoning linearity. my past actions may affect my circumstance, but their affect upon the decision i make for negotiating it is up to me.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

yes thanks for the communication. this is not meant to debase anyone...just to inform anyone interested in finding ways of achieving better health and fitness, advancing consciousness and meditation, and transcending negative karmas and sufferings.]

it's fine for health and fitness (even though that point can be argued either way), but saying someone's diet of choice affects the advancement of their consciousness is more than a little debasing.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

i have studied numerous ancient cultures and religions and found the purest and most advanced knowledge that is time-tested, shows real results, has the most kind and nice people, and leads to profound experiences.

are you saying that the knowledge and experiences of all other cultures and methods are somehow less profound and valid? how do you expect to grow while disregarding 99% of humanity's experiences?

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

i suggest you do your own experimentation with veganism and meditation for a period of sufficient time and see how you feel and experiences you have for yourself. also try keeping careful association for birds of a feather flock together in like karmic directions. ultimately, the results and benefits will be yours alone so choose how you treat all other beings carefully. i suggest you treat them all the same way you wish to be treated, cuz thats just how things work. you get what you give.

i didn't ask for suggestions man, but since you're so willing to give perhaps you'll be equally willing to receive. there's no such thing as a right and wrong belief. all beliefs have their justifications, and all of them are reasonable and rational for those who hold them. there is no such thing as an objective rationale for belief because all beliefs are subjective to the person who welcomes their influence into his experience.

all that basically means that any belief carries only as much weight as the believer believes it to, and to them it is truth. there is no objective truth. . . learn to respect that.

[JainVeganBuddha]

right on. i see your point of view.

but let me ask you a few ?s.

are you eating meat currently?

would you yourself want to go through the experiences that the animals you (or others) are eating went through?

it seems to me those who are violent--directly or indirectly--are always hypocritical because no being desires to get hurt, abused, wounded, and killed. why do that when you can eat so many other things?

so nonviolence is a spiritual/moral principle--not a belief.

i will warn against excessive mental proliferation, because the mind can be used to justify any number of abominable things....like the intellectual philosophies of nazis, racists, various warmongers. rather heart and consciousness must guide.

i say meat-eating degrades the consciousness because aggression and consuming the hormones and vibes in the stuff--as well as doing the deeds of capturing, imprisoning, and killing shape the mind, dull subtle sensitivity, and give rise to rage and aggression. any young child would naturally be horrified by watching these acts. these acts cultivate brutality and killing. those who kill animals are much closer to killing other humans and prone to do so.

meditation/zen is all about clearing the mind of all these endless thoughts and rationalizations and seeing through to our original pure nature--which one will find is one of gentleness, respect for other life forms, and nonviolence. but excessive (conditioned) thoughts, language, and rationalizations dull this pure awareness.

so im not really addressing belief thats an endless issue. im talking about practice. with nonviolence all beings concerned win.

negative growth and development toward 'the dark side does occur. just consider that over the course of some people's life, some become more kind, wise, and enlightened, while some become more violent, mean, and aggressive/angry. we can guide this procees through our choices of lifestyle and association etc...

i dont feel im debasing others. it is all in how you take it. only one with a humble and open mind inclined toward increasing morality and also experimentation can learn and advance. i just realize that people do take time to learn grow and develop in stages...this process may even take many many lives in various forms.... but at the pinnacle of this development is the best that is found in this world: nonviolence toward all life forms; receiving subtle knowledge of the universe through meditation, purification, etc; non-possessiveness; silence and equanimity...and the other transcendental enlightened qualities that have been associated with the buddhas/jain teachers.

through this path of learning and association i have cultivated qualities of sensitivity and friendship toward all beings, understanding of oneness with ALL, skill in karmic navigation, and a distaste for violence in all its forms. i accept and respect those that have not accepted or come to that point, but only wish to share the subtle yet profound benefits of such with those interested. i guarantee every person, little creature, and animal that i help, befriend, set free, care for, spare the life of, give good vibes to...etc appreciates that.

i respect the gradual ascent, but how can i deny the profound universal truths of nonviolence and liberation?

[verklingen]

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

right on. i see your point of view.

i don't believe you do, because you've written all the following as if everything i've said in this thread was disregarded. i'll do my best to oblige once more, providing some clarity in hope that we can forgo the endless dance of "i'm right and you're wrong because my beliefs say so" and actually begin some real discussion on this interesting topic.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

but let me ask you a few ?s.

are you eating meat currently?

would you yourself want to go through the experiences that the animals you (or others) are eating went through?

i don't eat much but i do eat meat. please don't make this a talking point, my words would carry the same meaning whether i ate meat or not because even if i were to give meat up again i would not disrespect another's choice to eat it. this is as much due to my beliefs as your disrespect for that choice is due to yours, and in fact i think it's time to talk a bit about my beliefs for the sake of clarity.

i believe that all conceivable experiences are innately devoid of meaning until a consciousness engages them. when this engagement occurs, the consciousness' definitions for the experience determine the way it is negotiated. for example, imagine a single father of an infant has an important meeting in the morning. while he is sleeping the child cries, waking him. is he frustrated by having to get up, or does he simply understand that this is his duty? that will depend upon the definition he holds for that type of experience: whether he consider it an offense or a delight or whatever. and in turn, that definition will determine his action and his action will determine the quality of the experience. in this way our definitions become a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, determining our experience of life.

i also believe that like attracts like, which is to say our definitions for past experiences determine exactly what experiences we are likely to encounter. this is the wheel of karma, and it operates it by our attention. if we were offended in the above example, attention is given to the experience of a child waking us in the form of negative expectation. this attention serves to solidify such experience and the expected result of such experience in our life, digging a karmic groove of habituation. this principle applies to all aspects of our life, and our feelings/actions put it to work.

it's more than possible to stop relating the present circumstance to our past experiences and pop out of that groove. it all begins in the mind. . . nothing comes to fruition until we decide how to meet an experience. if we go with "the tried and true" ego-driven methods, we get more of the same and maintain the progression of our karma. if we accept the experience and define it as providing a positive result (rather than act against it, thereby creating a negative result), we loose the bonds of karma and begin to take conscious control of our existence.

this can be done from no other state than a state of understanding and acceptance: understanding that no experience or circumstance means anything more than what we allow, and accepting that the provision of meaning defines the experience for us and serves to welcome more of that experience into our life.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

it seems to me those who are violent--directly or indirectly--are always hypocritical because no being desires to get hurt, abused, wounded, and killed. why do that when you can eat so many other things?

here you are projecting your own desires/fears and assuming they apply universally.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

so nonviolence is a spiritual/moral principle--not a belief.

like i said earlier, everything is an idea and a belief is simply an idea you feel strongly about. you are right to say that nonviolence is A spiritual/moral principle because spiritual and moral principles differ from person to person.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

i will warn against excessive mental proliferation, because the mind can be used to justify any number of abominable things....like the intellectual philosophies of nazis, racists, various warmongers. rather heart and consciousness must guide.

you're exactly right. what would you call excessive mental proliferation: believing that all experiences are neutral or believing that eating meat is a negative experience because meat is a bastardized version of the sun's life-giving energy? your justifications serve to debase a large percentage of the entire world. . . how is that any different in quality to the debasement of nazis, racists, and various war-mongers?

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

i say meat-eating degrades the consciousness because aggression and consuming the hormones and vibes in the stuff--as well as doing the deeds of capturing, imprisoning, and killing shape the mind, dull subtle sensitivity, and give rise to rage and aggression. any young child would naturally be horrified by watching these acts. these acts cultivate brutality and killing. those who kill animals are much closer to killing other humans and prone to do so.

again you are using your conception to paint a universal conception of experience.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

meditation/zen is all about clearing the mind of all these endless thoughts and rationalizations and seeing through to our original pure nature--which one will find is one of gentleness, respect for other life forms, and nonviolence. but excessive (conditioned) thoughts, language, and rationalizations dull this pure awareness.

but that respect runs short when someone chooses a behavior you disagree with, eh?

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

so im not really addressing belief thats an endless issue. im talking about practice. with nonviolence all beings concerned win.

all beings concerned "win" no matter what the case, as all experience is neutral. this thread is about oneness, a lack of division. thinking in terms of wins and losses creates a sense of division (a sense which can be explored eternally, as our entire history bears solid testimony). there is no division, only energy influencing energy. if we pay mind to what we influence and what influences we welcome, it's all winwinwinwinwin no matter what the circumstance.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

negative growth and development toward 'the dark side does occur. just consider that over the course of some people's life, some become more kind, wise, and enlightened, while some become more violent, mean, and aggressive/angry. we can guide this procees through our choices of lifestyle and association etc...

again this is merely a semantic difference between us. i simply don't believe in negative growth.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

i dont feel im debasing others. it is all in how you take it. only one with a humble and open mind inclined toward increasing morality and also experimentation can learn and advance. i just realize that people do take time to learn grow and develop in stages...this process may even take many many lives in various forms.... but at the pinnacle of this development is the best that is found in this world: nonviolence toward all life forms; receiving subtle knowledge of the universe through meditation, purification, etc; non-possessiveness; silence and equanimity...and the other transcendental enlightened qualities that have been associated with the buddhas/jain teachers.

ANYONE can learn and advance, in whatever way they choose. there's no one-way road to enlightenment. . . there are as many roads as there are people. also there is no pinnacle of development, only an endless unfoldment of mystery and revalation: a continual realization of oneness. saying who and in what way one can and cannot advance is working against this realization.

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha