Vegetarianism

[Porcelain]

I'm weaning myself off of meat mostly because until recently, I didn't realize the degree of cruelty with which animals raised of slaughter were treated. I guess that was the final reason I decided to try vegeterianism. I always felt I'd do fine without meat. I carry a lot of muscle on my body naturally so I don't require as much protien as others may. I still eat sushi and sashimi occasionally. It's pretty hard not to eat any meat when your whole family constantly has a chicken leg in their mouth or something.

I don't think free range meat would sway my opinion much. I think once you eat a certain way for a while, your taste buds become accustomed to eating that way. Once you get used to eating lots of greens and you cut down on the salt (an ingredient required to enjoy meat) and frying oils, the latter become a little bit vomit inducing.

[Mescalito]

IMHO eating meat is awesome. I however feel that generally animals to be eaten are not treated as they should be and also they are eaten more often than they probably should be.

Does it make me a bad person to continue eating meat? It's not like I don't care about what I just said.. but its pretty easy to ignore.. after all on how many occasions have I (or the general dude) seen the animals (the actual specific ones we eat where we live) treated badly?

Also just one more point.. everything dies eventually.. I would be a lot more happy if someone killed me to eat.. instead of getting run over by a car, scraped up and burned at the local incinerator.

One more thing.. I will be teaching about all this next week.. so the timing is nice.

M

[Porcelain]

It doesn't make you a bad person to eat meat. I know plenty of good people who do. I'm just wondering if maybe the general public finds it easier to ignore the animal cruelty because they don't understand the degree of torture these animals are put through. When my parents and I lived in Israel for 2 years, my dad worked on a farm where a good chunk of the animals were raised for food. The thing is, they had roomy cages, they were never scarred or marked or fed chemicals...in fact, many of them spent a great deal of their time chillen outside. I grew up with the notion that most of our food was raised that way. JVB posted a video from Peta recently which kind of opened my eyes to how different the reality is and it was the last straw when it came down to my decision on meat.

[Mescalito]

Good points.. I think there is a lot to be said for the language taht is used to describe what we eat.. like pork is pig.. beef is cow.. etc. It seems like those words were contrived by those selling the pig or the cow so there would be created a perception that they were different things.. or at least divide it as to avoid the bad part.. the death of the animal for our consumption. Hmm.. I was going somweher more to this.. but all I can think of now is thinking about what I am typing right now. Some perpetual spiral thing going on. Goodnight.

M

[spicoli]

Ignorance is bliss. I won't watch the video because i'm just sure that it'll make me sick, and i won't eat meat anymore. i heart meat.

[Porcelain]

Originally Posted by Mescalito

Good points.. I think there is a lot to be said for the language taht is used to describe what we eat.. like pork is pig.. beef is cow.. etc. It seems like those words were contrived by those selling the pig or the cow so there would be created a perception that they were different things.. or at least divide it as to avoid the bad part.. the death of the animal for our consumption. Hmm.. I was going somweher more to this.. but all I can think of now is thinking about what I am typing right now. Some perpetual spiral thing going on. Goodnight.

M

I agree, I feel like calling certain meats beef, veal and pork does something in our head which makes us forget what it is we're really consuming. It's like, "Hey, this is not a cow...this is beef...eat it!" The other thing I wanted to point out is, it's not always the consumption of something which was once living that makes vegeterians uncomfortable with meat. For example, I can respect the traditional Native American way of using our Earthly resources. I respect that for everything consumed, they gave back and they took only what they needed. What I don't understand is the process by which we do things today. I don't understand how a person can have the heart to tear a baby calf away from its' mother and lock it in a tiny cage without proper nourishment so the baby calf can barely walk by the time it should be running and jumping. I don't understand feeding chickens so much growth hormones that the majority of them spend their lives with broken legs which can't support their weight. I don't understand dipping a live pig into heat and burning it alive in order to burn off it's hair. I don't understand cutting off a cows horns and branding it on the face with scolding hot rock. Most of what we do to these poor animals is what we imagine our "Christian" hell to be like in the Bible. I don't necessarily believe in Christianity but to actually imagine myself in hell would suck...and realistically, we put those poor animals through that exact hell daily and by the thousands. That's where my biggest problem with the meat industry comes from.

[SweetSativa]

Originally Posted by Mescalito

Do you practice this? or something similar? What is your philosophy on the way you eat.. and why?

M

No I don't but I think to each his own. I have been known to purchase free range meat, however. I don't think it's wrong to eat meat but I think that inhumane treatment of animals is inexcusable. I've also been known to speak out about the dangers of refined sugar and white flour I was a vegetarian for a while but I addressed this issue and this was my conclusion FOR MYSELF (everyone has to do what is best for him or her):

Animals (such as cats) eat other animals (like rabbits)
it is not wrong for an animal (such as a cat) to eat another animal (like a rabbit)
Humans are animals (like cats)
Therefore it is not wrong for humans to eat other animals

[SweetSativa]

Can't help but stick this in here... we're not gluttonous?

http://blog.chrisworfolk.com/wp-cont.../foodchain.gif

[JainVeganBuddha]

Originally Posted by generic_hippie

JVB, mate, the bovine lactose industry is just as guilty of cruelty as the beef industry.

I imagine any vegan recommending milk products to be somewhat confused.

i only recommended it a as temporary transition off of meat/blood. i said it was MORE civilized, not civilized. its kinda like methadone for the heroine addict...not meant to become a permanent thing. just to dull the terrible craving some speak of when trying to kick meat. mk

[JainVeganBuddha]

of course its to each their own. some people cant handle having their practices challenged in debate or discussion--or video --so they get defensive and show their uncivilized traits. of course it is to each their own. that goes without being said. and also each will have to deal with the consequences of their actions--karmic, health-wise, consciousness, quality of life...etc.

the main point i am making for those with a thoughtful ear and mind to hear is that we have to treat animals and all other beings with kindness, consideration, and love in order to enjoy bearable karma in our own lives as well. what we do comes back to us...which one of us would choose to experience the pain and suffering the animals we exploit and abuse do? well, when you refuse to adhere and elevate to compassionate standards, that is what you are doing. dont forget you also have a sensitive body of blood and meat that can experience pain and suffering in the same way as those beings do. it can come in many different ways. you can hope or wish there is no such thing as karma or that it dont work like that, but that will not change the rules of the game. if you consciously and intentionally do that to others, participate in it, cause it to happen, partake of it, pay others to do it...sooner or later it is coming back to you.

[Captain Cannabis]

Originally Posted by JainVeganBuddha

i only recommended it a as temporary transition off of meat/blood. i said it was MORE civilized, not civilized. its kinda like methadone for the heroine addict...not meant to become a permanent thing. just to dull the terrible craving some speak of when trying to kick meat. mk

stopping eating meat is not really that difficult. most people who give it a shot don't have much of a problem

[JainVeganBuddha]

Originally Posted by generic_hippie

I guess I am by nature a violent bastard who cannot live without the slaughter of animals, but I'm also okay with it for now.

We stayed with friends a few years back who are strict vegans, after three days I found myself needing to hunt. It was only a rabbit, but I caught and killed it, then prepared it on an open fire a fair distance from their house.

Just cant live without a feed of flesh oocasionally, flesh soothes the beast within.

captain cannabis, tell that to fake hippie

[farmergiles]

Originally Posted by SweetSativa

I don't think it's wrong to eat meat but I think that inhumane treatment of animals is inexcusable. I've also been known to speak out about the dangers of refined sugar and white flour
.....this was my conclusion FOR MYSELF (everyone has to do what is best for him or her):

Animals (such as cats) eat other animals (like rabbits)
it is not wrong for an animal (such as a cat) to eat another animal (like a rabbit)
Humans are animals (like cats)
Therefore it is not wrong for humans to eat other animals

Couldn`t have put it any better myself. (Excuse slight editing SS)

[ExtraNormal]

I agree with SweetSativa's argument. However, I'm (mostly) vegetarian because I don't want to eat meat that came from animals raised inhumanely. The way animals are typically raised for meat is very inhumane. Too many animals per square foot, animals taken from their mothers long before natural weaning, the chemicals they're given (often to combat symptoms of overcrowded living conditions), the way they're transported/slaughtered, I don't want to have anything to do with it.

I think there's some kind of metaphysical side to it--not wanting to connect myself to "misery" if I can avoid it--but it's also an ideal of consumerism. If I buy meat, I'm casting a vote with my money for the business that produced that meat, and the means they used to do it. Whether we like it or not, every time we spend money, we're tacitly approving of the service we're paying for, or of the means of production of the product we buy.

If I'm confident in a certain brand of animal product--it meets my own personal standards, I would support that brand. Firstly, I'm not opposed to animal consumption per se, and secondly, I would like to "vote" for that means vs. the mass-production industry that I find totally inhumane and barbaric.

[ExtraNormal]

Originally Posted by Mescalito

Good points.. I think there is a lot to be said for the language taht is used to describe what we eat.. like pork is pig.. beef is cow.. etc. It seems like those words were contrived by those selling the pig or the cow so there would be created a perception that they were different things.. or at least divide it as to avoid the bad part.. the death of the animal for our consumption.
M

Homer: "Are you saying you're never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?"
Lisa: "No."
Homer: "Ham?"
Lisa: "No."
Homer: "Pork chops?"
Lisa: "Dad, those all come from the same animal".
Homer: "Heh heh heh. Ooh, yeah, right, Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal".

[Porcelain]

Originally Posted by ExtraNormal

Homer: "Are you saying you're never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?"
Lisa: "No."
Homer: "Ham?"
Lisa: "No."
Homer: "Pork chops?"
Lisa: "Dad, those all come from the same animal".
Homer: "Heh heh heh. Ooh, yeah, right, Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal".

classic Simspons

[Porcelain]

Getting off meat is not too difficult. Considering how long vegeterianism has been around, many foods have been adapted to that specific diet. Most big name grocery stores have a good selection of tofu products even though the taste takes some getting used to.

[ExtraNormal]

And don't forget nuts and legumes! Lentils rule, and limas kick ass, and you can throw nuts in just about anything.

And for the adventurous...

Chapter 9

Chapter 26 Eastern Asia