Jehovah's Witnesses

Dr. ShinDig · 06-10-2009, 08:16 PM

so last weekend a Jehovah's witness showed up at my door (again)

this time however, I decided I'd let her speak as I find such absurdities to be funny every once and a while.

but when she was mid sentence, out from behind her popped this little girl, about 4 - 5 years old.

my heart just sank, this was no longer funny. I find it horrible that people feel the need to pound their ridiculous beliefs into the mind of a developing child. (and that goes for all religions)

without thinking or hesitating, I immediately interrupted the lady and bent down to the little girl and said "Listen, it doesn't matter what your mommy tells you about god, he is not real! Ok.. Remember, God is not Real"

Then I smiled and shut the door.

I feel like it was the right thing to do, though I doubt she will remember, having a religious nutcase for a mom and all.

lol, but the mom looked pissed while I was saying that!

herbinator45 · 06-10-2009, 08:19 PM

let the girl develop her own beliefs. if god helps her get through shit, it helps her. if something else does, that's just as good, but let her make her own choice. as you said, impressionable young child..

**SageTree** · 06-10-2009, 08:23 PM

How much senseless materialism get pounded into kids, as well. Religions are the only ideas being pushed in our world. I don't think that what you did was the most tactful thing you could have done. Taking her trust in her mother's words, and trying to crush them is the same as what you think she is doing. I can see why you feel like you do. But showing how responsible adults act could have been much more poweful. Lead by example. It's a free world, do what you want, but freedom is a responsibilty as well.

Being · 06-10-2009, 09:06 PM

Wanna know something funny? my wife is a jehovahs witness as well as the rest of her family.

i am not. but i am 'studying' with a 'brother' to learn about it to know what she thinks about.

its not a bad religion. it has some good principles and good beliefs that i agree with, and some that i don't. I was raised a Lutheran btw (don't really claim belonging to any specific religon anymore)

i don't believe that there will be the end some day, and i don't think that JW is the only group of people worthy enough to be a part of this heavenly governing body.

i think there is a lot of religious showmanship and they do blow some things from the bible out of proportion, but definately not as much as some other religons

I do like some aspects, like them trying to live better lives, live by what they think is the right way to live (going door to door is to spread the word of God, like the prophets in the bible and such - reasonable), i like how they try to leave it up to the individual person to decide what is right and wrong in the eyes of God (even though the overall religion tends to tell you, the individual usually trys to just get the questions out there to think about), i like how they do not talk down about people (for example gays, they don't approve of being gay but don't condemn the people who live that which is a lot better than some religions).

I don't like how membership has certain requirements (like my wife who left the congregation and all that and did a lot of bad things, now has to write a letter or whatever before she can even talk and go hang out with other JW's), and how these requirements of man are imposed etc.

In my opinion, what OP did was wrong. You were pressing your beliefs more than anyone in the situation was. YOu should have simply stated your beliefs instead of telling a child to not listen to her parents (wrong to do so). I say, to everyone, next time a JW comes to your door, invite them in and have a debate. Politely. Trust me - its fun, it really is - especially when you get the right personality debating with you.

**SageTree** · 06-10-2009, 09:10 PM

I suprised the heck out of a dude when he went to reach for his Bible, one day on the lawn and I handed him mine

But I too laid down that I am a brother in love and to me that is 'God'. He told me alittle about that months watchtower issues and I thanked him. Easy enough to promote atleast a simple coalition of caring about happiness to all in life, without getting into the details.

Cannameds · 06-12-2009, 12:52 PM

Dr. ShinDig:

You did the right thing! Handicapping a child's developing mind with any bronze age mythology is child abuse. Remember when you stay silent when an epic lie is told you become its accomplice.

SageTree: Tactful is when your girlfriend buys something hideous for you and you tell her "thank you its beautiful".

When an enemy of mankind knocks at your door and expect that you listen with awe at the diarrhea that comes out of their mouth and instead is challenged and treated like the imbeciles that they are, that is simply the right thing to do.

I was stopped the other day by a gent who said to me "Would you like to listen to some good news" to which I replied, "Are you going to tell me that you are not going to share with me all the nonsense that you believe in? Thanks " and I walked away.

Judeo-Christian apologists, as well as any other mythologists should know that if they're not willing to join a rational human race, anything they have to say will not be listened to at all.

Cannameds

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 12:58 PM

that's a little over-the-top(enemy to mankind) they're mostly harmess unless you need a transfusion or a kidney

their not willing to go that extra mile..ethically

Cannameds · 06-12-2009, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by kamikazi89

that's a little over-the-top(enemy to mankind) they're mostly harmess unless you need a transfusion or a kidney

their not willing to go that extra mile..ethically

Kamikazi:

Its not over the top at all, the phrase "enemy of mankind" is exactly what they are. The only reason they "seem harmless" is because they are not in charge. When people of their ilk (judeo-christian mythologists) were in charge, humans were drawn and quartered or burned at the stake in the name of their god. As you well know, that historical period is still called "The Dark Ages", therefore, I stand by the phrase

cannameds

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 01:23 PM

we do many the same things now only in other names

Cannameds · 06-12-2009, 01:33 PM

Too true; the more things change, the more they stay the same

cannameds

Dozer McDozer · 06-12-2009, 02:15 PM

wow...

and guess what buddy. the agnostics were tortured and killed in front of Roman crowds. The roman empire was not "christian" when the agnostics were massacred.

however i would agree that the roman catholic church is "bad."

and uh the dark ages if i recall correctly, did not happen as you say. i believe plague killed a lot of people(did so in the byzantine empire at least). it was hard to grow a lot of food also. and a lot of people joined monastarys and abbots. and as you know the vikings killed monks in england and elsewhere.

but hey i'm not a history professor so perhaps i'm confused.

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 02:16 PM

now salem is another story altogether(mass hysteria)

Being · 06-12-2009, 03:59 PM

lol @ cannameds being crazy

i find your diarrhea of the mouth quite amusing, though quite wrong and insane..........

you should do some research before you start spouting about things you only have a small insight on.

history, and the history of religions, as well as current religions, start there maybe?

but then again you must be one of those people who are as blind as the religious folk who refuse to consider anything else than what your diluted non-factual mind has come up with. (looks like you ignored my original post completely)

but its ok. at six posts, i don't expect much.

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 04:03 PM

honestly: way too fatalistic and pre determined for my personal intellectual / philosophical tastes...

that's just me though..i ain't looking to take anyones kids away

live and let live

Being · 06-12-2009, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by kamikazi89

honestly: way too fatalistic and pre determined for my personal intellectual / philosophical tastes...

that's just me though..i ain't looking to take anyones kids away

live and let live

i agree on all fronts. i think i posted that in my original post.

but they are great people to talk to about religion and beliefs, even if you don't agree with them.

Cannameds · 06-12-2009, 06:37 PM

Dozer:

"agnostics were tortured and killed in front of Roman crowds"

At the risk of being off topic, I will touch lightly on your claim that the Roman Empire massacred "agnostics", but first we must differentiate between the present meaning of the word and the meaning given to the word (if any) by the roman authorities. In Merriam Webster agnostic means: 1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god.

I assume that when you use the word, as many of us do, it is the "broad" definition that you mean. Notice that the definition itself comes from the monotheistic camp, otherwise, instead of the phrase "God or god" (capitalized) ,it would simply say "god or gods". Of course since the word agnostic is an 1869 construct, I seriously doubt the Romans meant that when they use the latin equivalent, again, if any.

It is NOT TRUE that the Roman Empire massacred "agnostics" per say within the modern interpretation of the word. Within the Roman Empire, there were long periods of religious freedom and tolerance. As long as a person fulfilled their NORMAL CIVIC DUTIES, they were free to worship or not worship as they wished. Within the empire, many religions flourished: the greek and roman pagan religions, mystery religions, christianity, judaism, mithraism, etc. Unfortunately, "civic duties" included periodically making a nominal sacrifice to the Pagan Gods at the Roman temple. In a state where the emperor was deified, as in Rome, refusal to offer a token sacrifice was similar to refusing to take an oath of allegiance to the Emperor and this was punishable by death. One of the reasons for the periodic persecution of the Christians was that many refused to perform this duty. After the establishment of christianity as the main religious force in Europe, this period of RELATIVE TOLERANCE ended.

"the dark ages if i recall correctly, did not happen as you say"

I did not say anything to recall, however, I did write " When people of their ilk (judeo-christian mythologists) were in charge, humans were drawn and quartered or burned at the stake in the name of their god. As you well know, that historical period is still called "The Dark Ages"."
When you write (that) "did not happen that way". Are you stating that during the Middle Ages people were not drawn and quarted or burned at the stake for their beliefs? :0 Really?

Regarding the rest yes SOME people joined monasteries and abbots, my base knowledge of that subject is rather limited so I don't have an opinion on that subject and yes the Vikings killed lots of people on their raids and I suppose that included priests as well. Take it easy

Being:

Although I don't usually address anyone whose responses are so rich in such elementary logical fallacies, I must make an an exception in this case as I feel that my lack of enthusiasm at not addressing the post of such an august personage as yourself; importance plainly revealed by the sheer number of posts (almost 2000), led to such wonderful virtuosity of logical fallacies on your part.

I did not address your post, since whatever an adult does with his spare time, whether writing his thesis on The Destructive Influence of Christianity on the Development of Civilization or "'studying' with a 'brother' to learn about it to know what she thinks about," is no concern of mine.

Such clever reparte on your part,however, needs to be addressed:

1. lol @ cannameds being crazy = Personal Attack
2. ...though quite wrong and insane = Personal Attack
3. you should do some research before you start spouting about things you only have a small insight on.= Ad Hominem, Appeal to Authority (this one is specially amusing).
4. but then again you must be one of those people...= Appeal to Ridicule
and my favourite:
5. but its ok. at six posts, i don't expect much. (They don't teach logic in Jehova Witness School, huh?)

This last one reminded me of the time when 100 scientists signed a letter denouncing Einstein for his views on the proliferation of nuclear weapons and after a reporter asked him about it he said, "If they were right, only a signature would have sufficed"

Have a nice weekend everyone!

Cannameds

Being · 06-12-2009, 09:23 PM

The funniest thing (i find) in your posts on this thread are the massive hypocritical statements. Pointing out the ridicule and personal attacks in my post are quite hypocritical, when you take a look at the whole of your posts are pretty much ridicule and personal attacks on multiple levels to the individuals, and religions, therefore you are belittling everyone who doesn't agree with you (example: at the diarrhea that comes out of their mouth and instead is challenged and treated like the imbeciles that they are).

Quite an uneducated position to take, really. And your attempt to try to make yourself look all high and mighty doesn't work with me. Some of the most book-smart people are also the most ignorant hateful people (read: hateful not being open to others point of views), just go browse some white-supremacist forums and you will see what I mean.

Writing a thesis proves nothing, at all. You can write and write and write all you want, but do you truly know?

And your hatred for religious people does not need to be written out in a technical format, it can be read in your writing and your refusal to accept any other humans ideas/beliefs that do not agree with you.

To say that is child abuse, is not telling the child to completely ignore and not believe what the parent says abuse? For who are you to say that it is false - you do not know. You can claim all your facts about evolution, etc. and thats fine. But that does not prove that there is no such thing as Spirituality or a Supreme Being.

Bottom line, you preaching about religion and Christianity destroying Civilization or whatever is simply hypocritical coming from a hateful, closed-book thinking individual. Hate kills civilization. You should know that if hateful people are not willing to join a rational, loving human race, anything they have to say will not be listened to at all.

Being · 06-12-2009, 09:30 PM

In case you didn't deduct this from my post, just to reiterate, just be a loving, understanding person, and it goes a long way.

I know my first reply to you was harsh, but I still deem all of your posts in this thread more hateful and mean than any of my posts period.

Don't hate - love, let that be your religion of choice.

ProfessorMurder · 06-13-2009, 08:52 AM

(CNN Connie Chung - 'Pedophile Paradise' Video)

Pedophile Cover-up : Jehovahs Witnesses Revealed

Robb Pearson - Silent Lambs

Silent Lambs Home Page

Being · 06-13-2009, 11:00 AM

Ok, there may be isolated incidences and whatnot, but its not something that JW condones, nor approves of. As im sure the Catholic church doesn't either, but it happens.

It's called shitty humans, they are everywhere and in every organization period. They may have tryed to hide it, but how do you know that every other church has not done the same for its respected members? As I know happens. Thats why no organized religion is really the 'right' one, they all have their flaws, major and minor. The best thing to do is just get an understanding of the positives of all of them and piece them together.

ASG, why delete your post?

Im speaking from an un-biased point of view here, as i will not be a JW, i am only learning about what they preach.

That website you are pulling from on the other hand, well thats pretty much a hate website - just towards a religion and not a race/creed/sexual standing.

EDIT: sorry, not hate, just biased, extremely. it presents good debate points, but just like the opposing side, both are biased and will refuse to give into the other.