The Left Hand Path (muahahah)

[Center]

This thread is for the discussion of anything and everything that deals with what has been historically referred to as the Left Hand Path. Regardless if you consider this path as evil, depressed or even sociopathic I would like to discuss this topic because...well it's fucking interesting and a very real thing in the minds of many people.

As far as I can tell the general idea behind the two paths are as follows :
The left hand path is based serving your self before anything else.
The right hand path is based on serving other before anything else.

They are polarizations and extremes. The huge majority of humans do not follow either of these paths. They fall somewhere between.

Because I want this thread to reek of evil I only want to discuss the left one.

[Center]

oh ya...

Quick google on a few keywords returned these:

What is a Darkworker?
Left Hand Path; the historicity and origins of this term
What the Left-Hand Path is all about: The Truth about Contemporary "Satanism" | Suite101.com


^keep in mind the bias of these links.

This is gonna be fun...discuss....

[Grieves]

All humans are evil...We are born with Total depravity...We will never be fixed...Because we fall in the middle...

"Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins."

"This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all. Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead"

"For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."

"For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another."

[SageTree]

All humans are evil...We are born with Total depravity...We will never be fixed...Because we fall in the middle...

"Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins."

"This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all. Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead"

"For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."

"For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another."

Where are these quotes from Grieves? I believe the first one about doing good and not sinning, is from the story of Saddom and Gamorha?

......As a left handed person I feel like my rights have been infringed. I'm going to the ACLU, that's it!

[Center]

LOL!

Oh common, Sage. I know you can do better then that. I'm actually curious to hear your reaction and insight into this stuff.

I've got the day off, a bag of kind buds, my family home with me and my phones off. Lets hear it!

^

[SageTree]

Well G I'm off to work, sorry to break your heart but I had off yesterday all day for BC day. But I'll see what I can come up with.

[Mydriasis]

I have to say this. That is a dichotomy. Anyways, left and right hand is very bleak as there's many compenants that make up a person's personality let alone a person. Your not just black or white, there's all kinds of tan and pale in between. As you said above.

"Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins."

I believe the err in thought is that if you sin once you are no longer capable of being considered a good person. Name a noble peace prize winner who hasn't "sinned"? You can't but because they've stolen a cookie from the cookie jar at age 3 is that to loom on their tomb-stone after stopping a war? Well I guess if your hyper-critical of other people than yes, but for me I assume everyone is good.

"This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all. Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead"

For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."

These two quotes seem to imply that "Evil" is an innate personality trait in all human beings. I'm going to have to disagree. Why? because everything we know is learned from our experiance. Feral children aren't good or evil, they are animal, plain and simple. So this means that "evil" is taught to us from our families and friends and role-models.

I might dare to say "Evil" is egocentric. For example in America having sex with a 13 year old as an adult its punishible by federal prison time(thank god) including being listed as a sex offender. However in Thailand(if I got this wrong forgive me) it's common place for 13 year olds to be prostitutes. In that culture it is not some evil wrong doing, but in our culture it very much so is. So whats evil and whats not? The church used to tell us, now the news men do, and other biased political figures.

I do agree that these evil wrong doings will ruin a person though. If the sin/crime comitted does harm to another being, that alone can ruin a good person.

thats enough quote dissection for right now. Nice quotes though Grieves I had fun thinking about them.

I'm not sure what there is to really discuss here... You gave us a some links and told us what something is. What did you want us to discuss center?

[Center]

I believe the err in thought is that if you sin once you are no longer capable of being considered a good person.

I think that passage is in reference to original sin. If we are simply stating opinion here I'd like to say that original sin, as it's been interpreted, is an allegory to a more literal truth. Something along the lines of : the first moment of self realization or consiousness is what perpetuated the big bang due to an infinite will to understand. I think this is the original sin that so many religions refer to.

From our very beginning a very basic conundrum has existed. A state of being from non-being. A constant push and pull which can be seen and observed in the very reality that surrounds us. Your breath, communication, thought process, everything is in a state of flucuation from one to another, all in a state of basic confusion on what the reason is. So, we expand with our will to power to experience everything. We seem to do this on and on until someone figures it out, I guess...

[Mydriasis]

In Christianity original sin comes because we're all sons/daughters of Adam and Eve who were shunned from God because they ate that fruit. Then adam and eve god's rejected children had children Cain, Able, Seth, and "Many other sons and daughters". So say's genesis I think(if I'm wrong I'm sorry I'm not theisticly religious).

I agree Center that humans are experimental by nature. Though a lot of experimentation doesn't come from curousity, it sadly seems as though social net-works and norms/folkways drive people to desperation. So I believe the darker side aka the left hand is more driven from being failed in one way or another and that we all are naturally good or maybe nuetral when introduced to a system, until we feel wronged or failed or reach a capacity. Causing one to dig through their skin to find another mold to not be failed again, or to try to create empathy for the failing experience by spreading wronging and failure onto another being.

But hey thats just my theory...

[verklingen]

What is a Darkworker?

interesting! thanks for bringing this to my attention.

i see a lot of problems with the reasoning used to arrive at the darkworker's methods. in a nutshell, true lightworking is a synthesis of both the paths asmoday describes.

it is incorrectly asserted that lightworking is devoted to seeking meaning outwardly. THE ONLY true meaning comes from within: any good lightworker knows this. jesus (the "establishment" ) says it, even. i think this misconception arises from the lightworker's recognition of his inner divinity being supported by the divinity of all-that-is (omission of anything destroys infinity; destruction of anything omits infinity). "i am because we are," as it's put forth in the african philosophy of unbuntu. from the descriptions given on this single page, it seems a darkworker strives to suppress this truth and focus only on the self.

another point is amsoday's continual assertion that lightworking involves suppression of negativity and negative emotion. this is absolutely incorrect. negative emotions arise from the same inner divinity as those which are positive. they provide data with which it is the lightworker's duty to integrate in harmony: into his thoughts, beliefs, desires, and behaviors.

so really, lightworking as i understand it is an evolution of the darkworking this fellow puts forward. it's biggest pitfall is maintaining the ego AS the divine rather than the TOOL of the divine which it actually is.

[The Rev]

A truly self-serving path serves others as well, and vice versa.



The Rev

[Center]

Verk : He eventually goes on to say that either path leads to the same understanding that your so accurately describing. Win-Win mindsets. Both paths seem to find the interdependance of our reality yet each sees the world through two basically different lenses. He theorizes that complete dedication to one path will lead one to understand the world and themselves quicker then someone who lives in the middle for years.

A truly self-serving path serves others as well, and vice versa.

Right on.

[verklingen]

and imo, lightworking cuts to the chase!

the understanding i describe IS lightworking. it is our natural state of being. any other state/attitude is a mental fabrication for the purpose of creating an experience of separation. and that separation is not a separation from others; it is, in truth, a separation from self! imo, a darkworker would needlessly prolong that separation by uniting his self with a fabrication. it's a linear approach that defies our nature as infinite beings through the mechanism of mental limitation we call ego. because the ego is more than a thing, it is a thing plus a process: an ancient tool with an ancient instruction manual. that manual, you might say, was written with the left hand. it is our heritage, but not our destiny.

the problem i see with all this is that people don't really live in the middle. most of us are born into and continue to abide by this fabricated separateness our entire lives. it destroys our sense of worth, and i can see how darkworking could somewhat revive that worth and bring the individual back to power in his own unique individuality. but that worth is only partial, for the whole scope of one's worth envelopes all creation in an intricate tapestry of dynamic, interconnected harmony. the missing element is more than unity, for the unity is inescapable. it is a blending of the left and right in balance and appreciation, opening one up to a full experience of that unity, which completes the individual and awakens his true power in mindful awareness.

anyway, most of this is semantics but i had fun thinking about it

[SageTree]

Satanic commandments, according to The Church of Satan

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

These sound right based on what my friend, who is interested and reads about the CoS, says about it.

I don't so much mind the left and right path or light and dark worker. But to say that left means satanism doesn't set well with me. Diochotemizing these good and bad isn't how I see this. Balance of both appears to be important to holistic approach spirituality, based on how I understand things. The middle way is mine, although I lean to the left side of things and am left handed duhn dhun dhun! , but feel that I can step or blend the right side. Left is just my natural tendency.

So here are a list of the Satanic Commandments. To me Satanism seems to not place importance on Altruism and thinks it's against human nature. I highly disagree with that tenent. Some of the above 11 are still what I'd call 'in line with benefit to society'. There has to be some ground work of cooperation in any religion amoungst themselves atleast for it to survive, and it appears they are even here as well. A few just cross that line, some might believe.

Hope this adds something. I really didn't know what to say and this is what I came up with, since you seemed interested in what I had to say. Thank you for that.

In Kind
Sage

[Center]

anyway, most of this is semantics but i had fun thinking about it

GOOD! We need more traffic.

anyway, most of this is semantics but i had fun thinking about it

Thanks for the contribution. I actually hadn't read those and am quite surprised by the content. The rules are actually quite pragmatic. Interesting...

[Ego Tripping]

It's not about serving only the self or others, you can't avoid serving the self. If your #1 desire is to serve others, than it can be said you are "selfish."

It's merely about the golden rule...do unto others as you wish others to do unto you.

If you can follow just that rule alone, the need to define light from dark is a moot task.

[The Rev]

The church of Satan sounds kinda light weight. I was expecting commandments more like, "If a woman doth offend thee, put it in her pooper" or "For amusement, thou shalt strike the faces of animals and small children" etc. And what's the fascination with the word "Lair"? Sounds like a church for trailer rednecks who actually think that women are turned on by their shotgun and bowie knife collections.



The Rev

[kitch]

There's a reason human beings have a conscience. It may just be evolutionary so that we can work well together but it is also correct.

The problem, I believe is that in Judeo-Christian circles we're taught, essentially, to deny nature and deny life. Think of the genesis story; in Pagan cultures accross the world the snake represents life and renewal, because it sheds it's skin and comes out fresh. There are also 2 fruit baring tress from which the humans are not allowed to eat, until tempted by the serpent (life) with the prospect of knowledge. This is then taken as a major sin, getting them cast from the garden. This is a central flaw I find with Jewish theology, it sets nature as an enemy of man. I can elaborate further on the full meaning of that story if anyone is curious, but it may be beside the point.

I believe where the satanist church sits right now, is essentially the same as any other Earth centered religion. Perhaps more of it's adherents came from traditional christian backgrounds then other covens, but it does have a morally righteous code of ethics. When I think of the true dark side of spirituality I think more of the 'Black Ninjas' employed by the US military as discussed in the book 'The Men Who Stare At Goats'. People who try to use mental energy to kill or use 'magic' to try to injure or kill other people or animals. Whether these aims have ever been arrived at is dubious, but apparently one guy may or may not have killed a goat with his brain.

Essentially though, I don't believe in black magic. I think any kind of supernatural belief or power goes against nature itself, and is therefore impossible.

I mainly just wanted to set a distinction between evil magic and Earth centered religion, because many groups of satanists are actually adherents of the latter, perhaps a bit more volatile than a normal pagan, probably due to early exposure to overly strict religion.

[The Rev]

Women are supposed to be tempted by the serpent. Otherwise, all guys would have going for them is their ability to earn a good income, and we know there aren't many of THEM around.



The Rev