let us discuss christianity

[SageTree]

Wow Brother, that is a lot to chew on.

I agree about liberation coming from within, however you define liberation. Glad you see some common ground to stand on.

I think your word research is very interesting and convincing as I know not that deeply about it.

Where did you gain an affinity for studying language? You seem to reply with analysis frequently.

I am not sure if you are suggesting that these religious humans have attained through with or because of, your perceived meaning, with the same plant, which is cannabis, you are seeming to suggest.

I would be interesting to hear your opinion minus all the referencing about what your understanding is about cannabis and how it effected these people. Just keep it simple and easy to read.


I am not ready to state an opinion about if Buddha reached enlightenment solely through cannabis use or some sort, or other example you used. I think that anything in the hands of a person who knows what they intend for it, could use a plethora of tools to maintain levels of focus and attain new ones.

In Zen, enlightenment is believe to happen whenever and where ever you are, in day to day life. How you see the world is the key, bursts of enlightenment coming throughout your life, rather that as a final point or end. Sustaining it however is what I would considering the crux of practice. Does herb bring a level to my worth that is deeply concentrated and meaningful, sure does. Do I have to have it to do that? No.

So I would like to hear more about your perceptions of herb to the previously mentioned lists of spiritual teachers.

Thanks for your time and patience.
SageTree

[SageTree]

Don't think I talked about Karma, you asked right?

...press me later

I'm going to be on my way to work soon. But I really don't have alot to say of it past my applied meaning in this life.

[yo.]

No i mean the Adam and Lilith, Lilith. in the beginning of the first genesis God created Adam and Lilith from the Earth, equally. And as Adam did with Eve later on, felt Lilith should lie UNDER him. And since they were created equally she said fuck that and God banished her from the garden of Eden and cursed her, killing 100 of her unborn babies a month.


That book was taken out of the bible, along with like 5 or 6 others.

[№1]

Remember that song "Layla" by Eric Clapton?

Liyliyth (Lilith) is from Layelah, meaning properly a twist (away of the light), that is, night; figuratively adversity.

First verse of the song:

What will you do when you get lonely
No one waiting by your side
You've been runnin' and hiding much too long
You know it's just your foolish pride

Pretty interesting eh?

Clapton wrote Layla about Pattie Boyd...

The title, "Layla", was inspired by the The Story of Layla / Layla and Majnun (ليلى ومجنون), by the Persian 12th century poet Nizami Ganjavi. It is based on the real story of a young man called Qays ibn al-Mulawwah (Arabic: قيس بن الملوح‎) from the northern Arabian Peninsula, in the Umayyad era during the 7th century. When he wrote "Layla", Clapton had been told the story by his friend Ian Dallas who was in the process of converting to Islam. Nizami's tale, about a moon-princess who was married off by her father to someone other than the one who was desperately in love with her, resulting in his madness (Majnun, مجنون, meaning "madman" in Arabic), struck a deep chord with Clapton.

According to Boyd, Clapton played the song for her at a party, and later that same evening confessed to George that he was in love with his wife. The revelation caused no small upset between the three of them, but Pattie and George remained married for several more years, and Harrison and Clapton retained their close friendship with no apparent signs of damage.

I knew the story before I wiki'd it...

[SageTree]

Clapton wrote Layla about Pattie Boyd...I knew the story before I wiki'd it...

ftw?


Bibleguy. I'm seriously glad you are here. It's always a good look into scriptures I haven't look at for a while, or quite always from that direction. I enjoy your input.

[BibleGuy]

Sage

Where did you gain an affinity for studying language? You seem to reply with analysis frequently.

I hope I'm not overdoing the analysis thing. I like to know the basis for people's views and the things they say, so I like to show at least a little basis for mine - especially around this subject. Prohibitionists, especially Christians, automatically assume that people like me are just stoners attempting to justify marijuana addiction; that we're deceived and perhaps even demonic because they don't know the basis for the prohibition movement much less the history of cannabis and it's role in history, including the Bible.

So... When I started to question certain doctrines I began to look beyond the English translations of words in the Bible to get at the broader/deeper meanings of the Greek and Hebrew words... and their root words... and the roots of the root words... and my eyes opened up. I couldn't resist comparing cognates and concepts in various languages and traditions which lead me from Greek and Hebrew to Sanskrit/pali, Latin, Tibetan, Chinese, Japanese, Norse, Indo-european, Native American, etc., and their related cultures. I often seemed to end up with a beautiful Sanskrit word which inspired me to read a bit about Hinduism and Buddhism which I found agreeable, delightful, rich, and actually helped me to understand the Bible better and broadened my worldview.

I am not sure if you are suggesting that these religious humans have attained through with or because of, your perceived meaning, with the same plant, which is cannabis, you are seeming to suggest.

I would be interesting to hear your opinion minus all the referencing about what your understanding is about cannabis and how it effected these people. Just keep it simple and easy to read.

In the cases I mentioned, yes, that is what I'm suggesting, or strongly suspect, because of the related things that I noticed - many of these things relate back to a very special tree/bush/plant. Even in Norse mythology, a gleaming "golden tree" with "golden" foliage called Glasir stands before the entrance to Valhalla.

I am not ready to state an opinion about if Buddha reached enlightenment solely through cannabis use or some sort, or other example you used. I think that anything in the hands of a person who knows what they intend for it, could use a plethora of tools to maintain levels of focus and attain new ones.

Well, I agree with you, but the key, or a key, does seem to be visionary plants. In South America they use Ayahuasca. Others have used various mushrooms. We've already touched on Soma, which I'm convinced is Cannabis. Some use other techniques like drumming, ecstatic dance, Aum mantras, didgeridoos and other means to acheive trance/meditative states of consciousness and vision. Native Americans use peyote, and there is something very interesting about that story:

Qaneh bosem is "Fragrant cane" in the Bible and also a "Chief" (head) spice. Quanah Parker is the Chief who brought the Peyote religion to his people after a visionary an encounter with Jesus. His name means "Fragrant" in Comanche.

There we go with cognates again, aligning meaning via both word and metaphor, and two visionary plants. And these from distinct cultures on opposite side of the globe! Is that wild or what?!?

In Zen, enlightenment is believe to happen whenever and where ever you are, in day to day life. How you see the world is the key, bursts of enlightenment coming throughout your life, rather that as a final point or end. Sustaining it however is what I would considering the crux of practice. Does herb bring a level to my worth that is deeply concentrated and meaningful, sure does. Do I have to have it to do that? No.

I can see that. But, personally, I don't know how to truly meditate without herb. It seems to me to be the thing that allows the unskilled (like me) to experience the transcendental, with a simple breath. People who don't need it may have a more naturally or otherwise advanced/elevated endocannabiniod system that allows them to meditate, but that's just a pure guess on my part.

So I would like to hear more about your perceptions of herb to the previously mentioned lists of spiritual teachers.

Well, its just that they all seem to have a relationship with some kind of enlightening/illuminating "tree".

Buddha under the Bodhi Tree. "Bodhi" means enlightenment or awakening, right? And if he was eating hemp seeds while under it where did they come from? The tree called Bodhi today is a fig tree, but the Buddha wasn't eating figs. This makes me look to the metaphor rather than the species identified as the Bodhi tree today.

Moses' Burning Bush burned, but was not consumed. Sounds perhaps like time stood still and I think there's meaning in that. You know what happens to time when you smoke cannabis. Some have speculated that he ate a mushroom, which I'm not to sure about, but in any case we have a visionary plant, apparent alteration of time and an encounter with "The self Existent or eternal".

The Hindu's Soma relates to both Ganja and the third eye. In Hinduism there is a Yajna (fire sacrifice), a Somayajna, called Putrakameshti, a special Yajna performed for the sake of having a child. This is exactly what Issac did on behalf of Rebekah in Genesis 25:19-21, where Issac "Entreated" the Lord which means "to burn incense in worship". I've found other things along the way, but I'm not educated enough in Hinduism to go there yet.

Jesus' marriage at Cana. A marriage is where two join. Cana is Hebrew qaneh as in qaneh bosem. The meaning of biblical "incense" is to inclose/join. This "marriage", with the miracle that took place, is the initial revelation of Jesus "glory" which I take to means oneness with God, thus joined - the very purpose of "incense" and "marriage".

I'm sorry for still being a bit analytical here but it's the only way I know how to express how I see these things. I hope I didn't overdo it.

Thanks for your time and patience.

Sage... my brother. Thank YOU for your wisdom, time, patience and interest. Please, what are your thoughts?

[BibleGuy]

Clapton wrote Layla about Pattie Boyd...

That's really interesting! I didn't know that. Off the cuff, though, I suspect a relationship between the Persian tale and the legend of Lilith.

[BibleGuy]

ftw?

Bibleguy. I'm seriously glad you are here. It's always a good look into scriptures I haven't look at for a while, or quite always from that direction. I enjoy your input.

You're very kind, Sage. Thank you. I enjoy reading your input along with others as well.

[SageTree]

You're very kind, Sage. Thank you. I enjoy reading your input along with others as well.

Well I will get a response off to you soon. I usually like to ask questions more than give answers on spiritual topics, but I will consider what to type to you regarding thoughts, as I may have some, but certainly not strong ones rising to the surface.

Just wanted you to know I read your message and will try to formulate something soon.

metta
Sage

[420smokeman]

"belief is truth, bro."

theres only one truth that is before and after existance, it is who you are!! its the thing that connects everything as one reality.. cause theres only one reality... people dont have individual realitys, they may "think" or "belive" they do...but theres only one truth and one reality, one existance. so everbody should look within and find and expirence the truth. and then be it. and we will relize that we are in the kingdom of heaven!!!!!!!!!!

[Miss_MaryJane]

Thankyou for this post i hav been dying to read up on others opions specificaly on christianity.My mother-in-law is very over the top in a christian way if u get my drift and we have purposly avoided her for this.Not to be rude and all but christians are the recruters they want everyone to be just like them with their godly selves. but it seems as though christians have been some of the biggest hipocrits around and please comment bak on the subject because i truely belive that and would like to get some feedbak on the subject

[SageTree]

You want opinions about how much Christians are hypocrites?

I think hypocrisy exists in many realms of life. And I know some fine people who use their beliefs to affirm life, as there I know those who imprison themselves and others with their beliefs.

I don't feel I could just pin it on the Christians solely for 'winning the prize' for that one.

I understand where you are coming from and would like to share these thoughts as well.

Peoples want for others to believe, anything, can spawn from genuine caring down to the 'if everyone is doing it then it must be right' mentality.

So try to work with compassion when approaching an 'over the top' Christian, or anyone else that wants you to believe what they are talking about.

Arguing doesn't make much head way, either side.

So enter into that space with the idea and honoured feeling, that this person probably doesn't just arbitrarily care for you, they want you to be happy....

But only if you are happy the same way as them, is where the problem stems from.

Returning to the idea, that this person just wants you to be happy, might help you ride out the bumps and know when the time to ask a good question, will be. A thought out, well intentioned question can get much desired effect, beyond arguing and upsetting two people.

We can learn a lot from listening, even if it doesn't pertain to a topic of interest for us. Knowing how another thinks can shed insights into our own thoughts. Seeing how other view their world, maybe bring a new focus or question to yours.

Our greatest teachers of love, compassion, patience and swallowing our egos, are the ones that challenge us the most, and may lightly be labeled enemy to our 'I'. These things are virtues that will get you far in life, I feel, and bear the same fruits of religious practice.

So listening to an adverse opinion might not teach us much about accepting the person's theory, but it may teach us that we have a new capacity for honouring that someone cares for us, enough to share, and we can listen at least for a while perhaps, respecting our boundaries and beliefs as well, because you'll know when it's time to balance out respect for them and respect for yourself.

'Hatred never over comes hatred, but can only be unbound by love. This is an ancient law.' -Dhammapada ( words of the Buddha)

Love and patience,
SageTree

[v3d4]

ive met so many hypocrite sikhs...

it seems strange to say christians are hypocrites, why not say hypocrites are christians? or that many hypocrites are christians? maybe i fall into this category.
but if they are hypocrites, then are they really christians? maybe they are, but they are not good christians, or maybe imperfect christians, just like imperfect sikhs, hindus, moslems...

but Jesus specifically said something about this, so anyone who considers themself christian ought to know what He said about this and try their best to follow the instruction given by Him. people forget tho. sometimes they need to be reminded

[Miss_MaryJane]

When one person suffers from delusion it is called insanity, when many people suffer from delusion it is called religion.

-Robert Pirsig

[kitch]

The Hindu's Soma relates to both Ganja and the third eye. In Hinduism there is a Yajna (fire sacrifice), a Somayajna, called Putrakameshti, a special Yajna performed for the sake of having a child. This is exactly what Issac did on behalf of Rebekah in Genesis 25:19-21, where Issac "Entreated" the Lord which means "to burn incense in worship". I've found other things along the way, but I'm not educated enough in Hinduism to go there yet.

most scholars now believe that the soma mentioned in sanskrit texts was probably amanita muscaria mushrooms...

[420smokeman]

what do you guys think this means?-- "he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin," 1 Peter 4:1.

[SpankyMcLankey]

christians are fucking idiots IMHO. lol I know that's a terrible thing to say, but in all honesty 95% of christians I've met are either really smart or flat out retarded. In no way am I directing this to any one person, but it makes sense that some one with a low IQ would buy into a religion that's trying to make something out of nothing. There's hardcore christians that take the bible literally and that to me is just the beginning of the manifestation of religious logic.




Two thousand and nine years ago, some one could have easily written the bible just to mess with people.

I have no doubt that there's a possibility that christianity was first created as a joke and some one who took it seriously and started spreading bullshit to the tiny population of humans and therefor made it mainstream from the get-go.

Bottom line;
I mean fuck, a couple hundred years ago humans actually thought viruses were evil spirits or something like that. It's not hard for me to believe that those same idiots were the ones spreading christianity.

[SpankyMcLankey]

Why are christians so scared of death if that's the only reason they go to church every sunday and pray every night?

[SageTree]

what do you guys think this means?-- "he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin," 1 Peter 4:1.

I think it's good to have all of the text to draw out the meaning.

1 Peter 4:1-8

Living for God

" 1Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. 2 As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you. 5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray. 8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

I think that hard times and challenges are great teachers, and that we can use these hard spots as lessons for understanding, in that we all suffer and want happiness. In turn our compassion for others suffering increases, therefore, we want our actions less 'sinful' in regard to the language used. Altruistic in focus, if you will. Helping and not hurting.

These are the lessons I feel I have taken from 'suffering in the flesh'.

[Ego Tripping]

Would a benevalent lord let his most precious creation, children, suffer and die?

Why?

Why does a parent let their children play in the park together even knowing that the child can get hurt or worse kidnapped?

Because the parent allows the child to have free will, even if they make a choice and ends up hurting them or one another.

Intelligent design doesn't have to infringe upon the concept that we have choice in the end. Just because "god loves you" doesn't mean you'll be sheltered from all harm...same as a parent might love their child 100% and unconditionally but would still let their child grow up and make decisions for themselves, even if they don't agree with them.