Nature or Nurture?

[Canuck Wisdom]

Alrighty, pretty classisic question here. I want to you hear your opinions, whether they be theoretical or concrete, scientific or religious/philososhical. I'm about to go out, I just wanted to post this so there might be some responses by the time I return, so I dont have time now to post my opinion.

[Ego Tripping]

Little from column a, little from column b. Starts a nature, but nurture can change things. Certain inherent qualities and traits never can change, but others can.

[kiWikkid]

I'm assuming nature = something inherited,
and nurture = what happens after you're born.

If so, then does the fact that humans only have 30,000 genes (twice as many as the fruitfly) help prove, that beyond the physical appearance, genes have little to do with anything else?

[snapshot]

Is there a scenario here or am I just a philosophical lightweight and don't understand exactly what's being asked or proposed? Nature or nurture on what. My only perspective on this is nature and nurture are almost one in the same. So much of what society says goes into raising a child. Kids have become either raised for the established society or raised against it. Either way, I don't think there is such thing as a fresh start human being. We are the product of 30000 years of parental and societal evolution, and it takes a lot work to get back to the roots.

[Canuck Wisdom]

Originally posted by snapshot182
Is there a scenario here or am I just a philosophical lightweight and don't understand exactly what's being asked or proposed? Nature or nurture on what. My only perspective on this is nature and nurture are almost one in the same. So much of what society says goes into raising a child. Kids have become either raised for the established society or raised against it. Either way, I don't think there is such thing as a fresh start human being. We are the product of 30000 years of parental and societal evolution, and it takes a lot work to get back to the roots.

Ya sorry, I should of gone into more detail. I made an assumption people would know what I was talking about. And my other major flaw is that I am super lazy and dont like doing long posts.
The issue pretty much is, do you become who you are by blood (genetics) or by how your raised. Applied to humans, animals, whatever.

--------------------------- Why I decided to ask about nature vs. nurture.

Recently I had a "stoned revolution" (I hope you know what I mean) and started viewing things, most specifically things in the natural world, from a little different perspective. It started as everything being unique. Meaning, rather then seeing a maple tree, or beach tree, I would see each as an individual, completly unique and differenent from all other things. Much more so then before. (here I should mention I blaze in an apple orchard/forest setting almost all of the time). It was very exciting when this hit me, it was like I was seeing everything again for the first time, and the feeling was very strong (I find it difficult to describe this sensation). I had a blast exploring this area that I knew so well (like the back of my hand) again with this new outlook. I had alot of fun, and hoped that I wouldn't loose the sensation after I sobered. I didn't. It's weaker, but still there. Everything started becoming much more important in its uniqueness. Each time the wind blew, each scent, bird call, each movement my dog, that I was walking, made (I really saw how she was a part of nature), everything pretty much but more so with natural things. Human things, square, repetitive things lost some value to me though. (--- Can you think of any natural thing thats square? Humans make alot of square things, they all have to be the same to line up with each other neatly ina repetitive row.)

Basically I just had a real big and potent, stoner revolution, where something just sorta clicked and I was shed a little light on reality. I'm hoping you can relate to this part, otherwise you would have alot more difficulty understanding the next bit.

The greatest high ever

Then I started to wonder. What if I was Adam? Yes as in Adam and Eve. (only using christian mythology to communicate idea) What if I was the first self concious human, or the first one made to exist or enlightened by the creator. Or drugs, mushrooms. Whatever your belief, just imagine this:

Your the first human on earth, and you have no build up of past knowledge from the generations, no assumptions about anything. No categorizing anything (tree types for example), all is unique. imagine your first walk around, you have no concept of a home your leaving or going to, no pre concieved notions at all. Each sence you receive is new and fresh, each is a rush of new concepts, each sence triggering a reaction in your brain is new, nothing is ignored. Everything is new and unknown pretty much. Would you fear all this unknown, I doubt it, not unless you ran into something that causes pain or something. Basically not till you had reason to fear. Everything that happened tyo you would be like a high, each thought would be part of a crazy trip. Like what I tried to descibe above, but much much much more intense.

I had so much fun with it when I got a little bit, I just thought it would be Euphoric to have it completely.

Anyways I'm pretty baked and probably didn't communicate well, but there ya go. I was thinking about all that and eventually I got to the nature vs. nurture thing. I know what I think. I just wanted to know what everyone else does. And I was initially too lazy to write what I wanted to in the first place, which was my stoner revolution. I really hope I made it understandable. It is great fun relating your stoner revolution to someone elses.

-----


Maybe it would help others understand what I mean by stoner revolution if I listed some other things I can remember having revolutions about, and now view differently in life.
Art
Home Decor
Religion and philosophy (I know, very general)
ummmmmm...
relationships and interactions between humans and other creatures (these are often funny)

I just think its fun to observe and contemplate things, leads to me changing my understanding of them.

Anyways, there is my unplanned lengthy post.



Toke as needed

[Canuck Wisdom]

I realize there are alot of possible ifs ands or buts about my above described situation (first human on earth thing) but pls just play along to try and get on the same brainwave I was.

[Pitfall]

nature nurtures us and vise versa. nature is nurture in a way. if there was no nature than earth would just be a black ball or some shit.

[Canuck Wisdom]

Originally posted by Pitfall
nature nurtures us and vise versa. nature is nurture in a way. if there was no nature than earth would just be a black ball or some shit.

The issue at hand really is, what makes up a person or animals character, personality. Whether they're good or evil, what their definition of good or evil is. Whether they're proud or cowardly. Aggresive or passive. Etc

Not to down on what you said or anything, just trying to clear up the question. Nature or Nurture.

[Skivveez]

I recently read an article pertaining to this. I have it in print, but no url, sorry.
It was a study on mice, involving a certain gene that created NO in the brain. Apparently, mice that lack this gene are very aggressive. They will fight with any male mice put in the cage, and if the mouse surrenders the fight, they will continue to attack until they kill it. They will also apparently rape female mice, whether or not she is in 'heat', for hours at a time, whereas normal mice will give up on an unwilling female. The behavioral change between mice with and without this gene is incredibly drastic.
I think this makes a pretty strong case that genetic nature can and does have a role in determining behavior. However, I think it illustrates an extreme case. My belief is that in the average human, nature and nurture both play a role in determining generalized personality traits, and nurture is much more influential on specific actions and beliefs. However, I also think that there may be certain rare genetic factors, perhaps mutations, that can play a dominant role in determining personality and actions by drastically changing brain chemistry from the "norm".

[snapshot]

I still believe that after the evolution of the human race for, I'm assuming 30000 years, could be wrong but nobody corrected me, are now one in the same, and always have been. How are we unnatural? That's like saying nurture has nothing to do with nature.

[Legal lies]

There may be "only" 30,000 genes, but there are 3 billion chemical base pairs that make up human DNA. That's a lot of info, but most of it is the same for all humans.

The interesting thing to look at are twin studies that deal with separated identical twins. These have shown that environment does play the strongest role. Genetics are also very instrumental in who you become too, just not to the same extent as nurture.

[kiWikkid]

That's like saying nurture has nothing to do with nature.

Yea but in the traditional sense of discussing whether personality is inherited or learnt, nature and nurture aren't literal terms. My understanding is nature refers to genetics, and nurture refers to learnt behaviour. Unless we define the parameters this discussion is going to be rather circular.

[Legal lies]

I thought that these were pretty standard terms. It comes up in debate in any intro to pysch, anthro, philosophy, sociology, and many other classes. It also comes up in life all of the time. Does anybody have siblings? Similar genetic material that undeniably yields dissimilar products. It's interesting to think about. How much would a clone really be like me? Am I addicted to S&M because I got beaten when I was a child? The implications of the debate are endless.

[snapshot]

Alright well I havent taken any college courses yet, so Im going to sit this one out. I think might be getting ahead of myself ya know? Aight, peace.

[Canuck Wisdom]

Originally posted by Legal lies
I thought that these were pretty standard terms. It comes up in debate in any intro to pysch, anthro, philosophy, sociology, and many other classes. It also comes up in life all of the time. Does anybody have siblings? Similar genetic material that undeniably yields dissimilar products. It's interesting to think about. How much would a clone really be like me? Am I addicted to S&M because I got beaten when I was a child? The implications of the debate are endless.

Yep me too,

except your second last sentence

[Pitfall]

well sorry man, but i think you have to write questions clearer. both do it. nature and nurture. than again, nurture is just a process of nature. everything is nature. people are like "humans and nature", we're nature aswell dammit! what makes up more of a personality? i think nature does ive been nurtured alot but im still a cunt. its because the nature of the bad events that nature has put on me partly from my own doing.