Mr. Poatheed

Has anyone else seen this?

French approve ban on face veils

Fuck France.

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Flamingnun

Someone think of the poor ninjas bound to be affected by this!

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Geeno

Hating on France is so 1900's

I for one support the ban of stupid shit.

Is that religiously intolerant? I don't know but making women wear veils is oppressive and a good way to let criminals disguise themselves in public.

It's funny that i feel that way because I generally support both criminals and oppressing women.

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mothernature

There are several US states where the wearing of a mask is illegal.

Waves

how dare france outlaw ancient religious rules that have no place or bearing on modern society

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Mr. Poatheed

That part I'm cool with.

That part is shitty. If a woman wants to wear one for religious reasons and no one is forcing her, then she should be able to.

It's just the reason behind the action that bothers me. The government doesn't like something, so they make it illegal. The article mentions that only about 2,000 women even wear a veil out of a Muslim population of 5-6 million, so why go through all the trouble of making it illegal?

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Flamingnun

Just like how foreign/western/white/non Muslim women should be able to choose not to wear face veils when visiting Arabic countries? Except they're not, they're required to by law in a lot of places.

Different countries have different rules/customs, get over it.

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Lloydy

the give-a-fuck-ometer is unresponsive.

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Waves

most muslim women dont wear them out of choice, they wear them because their testosterone-driven religion forces them to and theyve just becomed accustomed to it out of habit

fuck that shit, what about womens empowerment?

they become so used to being pushed around by men and their religious customs that they dont even know they are being made victims. its called learned helplessness, and i think france is making the world a better place by outlawing these oppressive customs.

but thats just my CRAAAZY perspective i guess

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Sir-Ex

if the background of my give-a-fuck-ometre was transparent, and then the whole thing laid across lloydy's metre, it would look exactly the same - except the 're' and 'er' would look like the same two weird letters.

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Ditch the cigs!!!!!!

Waves

you'd give a fuck if your husband locked you in your house for a month straight because you had the audacity to go out of the house with your face showing

alright i'll stfu now

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The Rev

There are alot of practices of one culture that another will find unacceptable. (And, for the record, I am against coercion of any kind.) However, making it a punishable offense to observe said practices is the wrong way to go about it. You can't bring people over to your way of thinking, no matter how right you may think you are, by threat of fine or imprisonment. It just doesn't work that way.



The Rev

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Sir-Ex

I suppose I would give a fuck were that the case.

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Smile

Ditch the cigs!!!!!!

Canuck Wisdom

Do they do halloween over there? How's that stuff affected? Or say, wearing masks for events, or protests? (not to hide your face but to look like a politician etc)

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Canuck Wisdom

Well perhaps two generations from now, people wont even consider it/feel coerced because theyre folks and grandfolks have not wanted to pay the fine.

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Sir-Ex

Holy shit, in my research of how halloween came to be in france, i've realised that Coca cola and disney have pretty much single handedly invented our children's culture.

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Ditch the cigs!!!!!!

Waves

I agree, in a perfect world, of which this is not

Every arab country does this to a degree that makes france look like fucking hippy-land where everyones running around naked with flowers in their hair

In iran (or wherever) you get stoned if you go out without one, in france you get fined if you go out with one

Seems like a fair deal to me

I mean lets be clear here, this law is not banning anyone from DOING anything. its banning people from NOT wearing a stupid fucking religious relic.

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Mr. Poatheed

Rev's got it. I'm all for Muslim women feeling empowered and losing the veil, but it shouldn't be legislated against. I'd have a different view if Muslim women just stopped wearing them in public by choice, because that shows true empowerment, standing up for yourself without the big bad government backing you up.

Do you think they'll start arresting people for wearing scarves over their faces in the winter? Or face masks while skiing? Full-face motorcycle helmets? This will only affect people from a certain religion, making it illegal for them to follow their beliefs, punishing the very group the government says it wants to liberate.

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Waves

No, because those things serve a specific function

Face veils serve no function other than to oppress

I see your point in that making it against the law is a bit extreme, but to me its just balancing out the fucking crazy extreme-ness of the concept of face veils in the first place

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Waves

The women arent going to stop wearing them. Its against their religion.

See this is why its such a fucking twisted complex crazy situation.

Not only are these women oppressed by their crazy testosterone-drive religion with its crazy ancient laws, but they are under the impression that these crazy laws are actually divinely written, and breaking them would sentence them to the arab equivalent of burning in hell for all eternity.

its learned helplessness. they dont believe they have any other choice. until a 3rd party steps in, shit aint gonna change cuz gods involved in this one.

I dont quite know why i feel so strongly about this or why ive responded so much but it is fun conversation i guess.

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