no_limit1

hey guys, ive already asked this on barry coopers website but it hasnt been approved yet.


I am looking for laws regarding the use of RC helicopters with cameras on them to watch police in Kansas and Oklahoma. I have tried to get advice from lawyers in this area but as soon as they figure out what its for they completely withdraw any offers of advice.

if anyone has any info on this please let me know.

HTAM

Well, what's it for?

no_limit1

watching police, obviously.


to be more specific watching for civil/constitutional violations that most people in this area dont even know are being violated.

Flamingnun

lol

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turmaline

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HTAM

That's still too vague.

What are you using the word 'area' to define? A city, county, state?

What specific constitutional violations are occurring? Are they State Constitutional violations or Federal violations?

What civil violations that have allegedly occurred do you believe merit fines and sanctions? Or even the attention of the Local DA?

Have you recently had any contact with the Police that resulted in a summons or a fine or a conviction or both?

If you have, is the individual you've expressed interest in filming the same Officer that you had contact with, or who issued you a summons?

If you haven't
A- What specific conduct you believe is being perpetrated by the individual(s), that you have an interest in filming?
B-Is it one specific Officer whose activities you want to film, or is it a Department in general?

How did you come to know of the alleged violations you claim are occurring or have occurred?

Are there other witnesses that will sign statements of complaint that will support your allegations?


And post the response from Barry Cooper's page if you get one I want to read it.

Flamingnun

sweet av btw^

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no_limit1

due to operational security concerns i will not discuss any specific locations but what i am looking for are blatant constitutional violations, drug planting, K-9 false alerts, etc...


I operate a watchdog group in this area and have recieved numerous complaints of violations.


you guys are making this question more than what it really is. All i want to know is if it is illegal or not to watch police officers(ALL of them) with cameras mounted on RC helicopters.



Example: Officer/car XX performs traffic stop on individual, i see/hear such traffic stop visualy or on the radio. Helicopter cam is sent up to observe such traffic stop and video is saved for further use if need be(for filing complaints, etc...). and just so you know the officers in this area have the option of "killing" there dash cams by unplugging them.

AlteredStateGrl

....uuuuhhh duh, no one is asking for specific locations.

...and i can't stop lol'ing at the visual of someone getting pulled over, signaling to you all somewhere holding a walkie talkie, then you launching your rc helicopter to the scene and hovering about 5 feet overhead of the whole scenario while you listen in and take notes in a shed nearby.

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SmokeaJoint

Is this more what you wanted to know?

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Flamingnun

Seriously dude? It's far from legal, on numerous points.

RC aerials illegal says FAA at DVinfo.net

Not to mention the logistics of getting a helicopter with a decent enough camera to be of any use in a courtroom airborne for an extended period of time....

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no_limit1

hmm the way i interpreted this it seems as though this is a large grey area of the law. "commercial or promotional uses" may or may not pertain to a citizen watchdog group mainly because a watchdog group is niether "commercial" or "promotional".

I will await a response from barry.

as far as a decent cam go's you can get cams that transmit wireless color video/audio up to 500-700ft for next to nothing. sometimes you can even get the heli/cam as a combo.

Parallax

doesn't matter if its legal or not, just get a bunch of disposable craft that stream the video to a remote location and operate them from inside a nondescript location, like a panel van or hiding in the bushes somewhere. the worst they can do is try to shoot at the thing and even if they succeed you still have the footage, obviously you'll want to try to recover the craft when possible. have someone park a truck behind a corner somewhere and when you get all the footage drop it in the bed when noone's looking and have the truck drive away (launch it from a truck in the same way). there's no way it can be linked back to you, unless you get caught with the transmitter or someone sees you lauching or recovering the surveillance craft.

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I10HaulR

I'm sure they'd love to shoot at that thingwith a shotgun, I know I would! Those things are loud too, like a flying weed eater...

HTAM

Well, it would of been nice if you had answered those questions, but I see now why you have had no joy with Lawyers and initial consultations.

You mentioned Kansas and Oklahoma as the States in question, and after reading the wiretap laws for each State it is inherently clear that you're done. End of story.

And then there's the FAA problem, which really, is actually a LARGER hurdle for you to negotiate than the wiretap laws.

fenderbender

those are two fucked up states right there... or so ive been told.

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no_limit1

you've got that right fenderbender.


higherthanamile, you've lost me. can you elaborate please?

~1~

Wiretap laws are subject to interpretation with a good enough attorney, violating FAA regulations are pretty much unarguable.



Edit: Since this applies to RC's and UAV's, what is the exact definition of an RC or UAV, where would a tethered balloon come into the whole thing? I figure the primary argument is the ability focus on a specific subject but what if you caught the scene in a much larger picture?

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no_limit1

the FAA regulation states the uses as "Commercial or promotional". what is Commercial or promotional about a citizen watchdog group using these things to protect peoples rights?

HTAM

^Okay, try this.

YOU, under the guise 'watchdog' would like to record events or conversation that you are not otherwise privy to, because of the restrictions and limits of current law. That's one problem you can't negotiate.

Ever.

In other words, to achieve what you desire, you could actually be breaking the laws as they are written.