Life as we know it is no longer life as we know it

Bearsy · 12-02-2010, 01:33 PM

NASA - NASA-Funded Research Discovers Life Built With Toxic Chemical

NASA astrobiologists have a type of microorganism in California that is doing something completely novel: it substitutes arsenic for phosphorus in its chemical makeup.

Quote:

Carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur are the six basic building blocks of all known forms of life on Earth. Phosphorus is part of the chemical backbone of DNA and RNA, the structures that carry genetic instructions for life, and is considered an essential element for all living cells. Arsenic, which is chemically similar to phosphorus, is poisonous for most life on Earth. Arsenic disrupts metabolic pathways because chemically it behaves similarly to phosphate.

It’s been known for a while that some microbes can metabolise arsenic, but what this organism is doing is building parts of itself out of arsenic, something no other known life forms can do. ”If something here on Earth can do something so unexpected,” asks Felisa Wolfe-Simon, a NASA Astrobiology Research Fellow, “What else can life do that we haven’t seen yet?”

This will change the way astrobiologists look for life on other planets, including where they look (arsenic-rich atmospheres were previously considered off-limits) and what the definition of life really is (right now, we only know that life exists the way it does on Earth, so finding out that life can exist very differently and using different chemicals will expand what we think of when we think of “life”). This is the first alternative biology we’ve ever known to exist; previously, the idea of alternative biologies has been mere speculation, more common in the realms of pop-science and science fiction.

**SageTree** · 12-02-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

“What else can life do that we haven’t seen yet?”

That's some astounding, deep shit right there

José · 12-02-2010, 03:42 PM

yeah it is actually. finding life based around arsenic IS astounding.

as far as we knew DNA was the only basis for life. this is big news! and people thought messing with DNA was bad, I have a feeling this is going to open a lot of doors for us.

Quote:

"That means the bacteria evolved from a different common ancestor than every other organism on the planet, suggesting the possibility of a “shadow biosphere" here on Earth."

Flamingnun · 12-02-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpankyMcLankey

yeah it is actually. finding life based around arsenic IS astounding.

as far as we knew DNA was the only basis for life. this is big news! and people thought messing with DNA was bad, I have a feeling this is going to open a lot of doors for us.

It still has DNA, just arsenic based DNA instead of Carbon.

Geeno · 12-02-2010, 04:08 PM

I swear to god this has been reported on before

Flamingnun · 12-02-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geeno

I swear to god this has been reported on before

They repoted on bacteria at the same lake, that thrived off arsenic in 2008, but afaik bacteria creating itself using arsenic is new news.

Arsenic-eating bacteria rewrite evolutionary history | EVISA's News

José · 12-02-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamingnun

It still has DNA, just arsenic based DNA instead of Carbon.

oh yeah sorry, that's what I meant. but it doesn't throw carbon out of the whole equation of the life form, just the genes of course.

still none the less it is something we didn't know was possible before and will open a lot of doors to more possibilities when it comes to genetic engineering. perhaps it will help us find a new use for DNA when it comes to energy/food.

Bearsy · 12-02-2010, 04:17 PM

Well not really... it's still carbon based and if phosphorus is available GFAJ-1 will use it to build their chemical compounds, but in the absence of phosphorus arsenic is used as a viable alternative.

**SageTree** · 12-02-2010, 08:06 PM

I'm only cynically saying it's astounding science hasnt figured it all out yet,,,,,I think the discovery is cool.... the quote is just funny.

José · 12-02-2010, 09:10 PM

This is the lake...

Roach · 12-02-2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Life as we know it is no longer life as we know it

true, the life you know today will not be the same tomorrow.

the man who taught me of quarks named the five of his time,

up
down
bright
pretty
and my favorite...strange.

now some prespiring young student of the mystic sciences can update the class with the newness of the current trends.

SmokeaJoint · 12-03-2010, 02:21 AM

It just trips me out to think an organism is using arsenic in DNA rather than phosphorus. And just think, this organism's cell membrane (if it has one I guess, but they all do so far) isn't a phospholipid bilayer. Its like, a arsenolipid layer or something. Trippy shit.

Captdoug713 · 12-03-2010, 02:32 AM

We Only know what we think we see.

Lloydy · 12-03-2010, 03:23 AM

meh poison-types are nothing new

José · 12-03-2010, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeaJoint

It just trips me out to think an organism is using arsenic in DNA rather than phosphorus. And just think, this organism's cell membrane (if it has one I guess, but they all do so far) isn't a phospholipid bilayer. Its like, a arsenolipid layer or something. Trippy shit.

you don't know that. it could still have the genes for making phospholipids.

**SageTree** · 12-03-2010, 06:31 AM

The quote was funny because I'm pretty sure that is what people scoff at religion for saying and not being able to prove. I don't discredit science to a 'belief system' entirely, but sometimes it really toes the line when weight is put on the 'we can perceive all the variables' .... In other words, it just sounds sill to say “What else can life do that we haven’t seen yet?” , which is likely the same thing humans have been saying since the beginning of time, scientist and mystic alike.

SmokeaJoint · 12-03-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpankyMcLankey

you don't know that. it could still have the genes for making phospholipids.

If its substituting arsenic for phosphorus, where do you think the phosphorus for the bilayer come from? I'm not being an ass btw, I'm trying to see it like you are. Or are ya just playing the devil's advocate?

EDIT: Actually, I was right all along. Look:

Quote:

NASA has discovered a new life form—called GFAJ-1—that doesn't share the biological building blocks of anything currently living in planet Earth. It's capable of using arsenic to build its DNA, RNA, proteins, and cell membranes.

José · 12-03-2010, 12:17 PM

It says it's capable of, but it doesn't say that it always does it, you could be right though. That's still cool though no matter what.

SmokeaJoint · 12-03-2010, 12:21 PM

Haha good point. I wonder if this is gonna have any real world implications.

fenderbender · 12-03-2010, 04:39 PM

Discovery of "Arsenic-bug" Expands Definition of Life - NASA Science

Discovery of "Arsenic-bug" Expands Definition of Life

NASA-supported researchers have discovered the first known microorganism on Earth able to thrive and reproduce using the toxic chemical arsenic. The microorganism, which lives in California's Mono Lake, substitutes arsenic for phosphorus in the backbone of its DNA and other cellular components.

So now instead of just assuming life on other planets will be drastically different from what we know as life on earth, we now know that it most likely will be... AND that what we know as life on earth isnt even what we thought it was.

I remember reading something about this a while ago that made it sound like this organism was completely separate from the current known "tree of life", But this article says that the bacteria used Arsenic like this when switched out in a lab and didnt occur naturally.

Still this proves that a completely different tree of life could have emerged on this planet if the conditions had been slightly different...

AND, most importantly, that life is EXTREMELY adaptable, even using something as poisonous as arsenic as a building block.

we are soooooo not alone....

12-02-2010, 08:06 PM	#9 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	I'm only cynically saying it's astounding science hasnt figured it all out yet,,,,,I think the discovery is cool.... the quote is just funny. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

12-03-2010, 02:32 AM	#13 (permalink)
Captdoug713 Thats my fucknjobasshole! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: North America Posts: 1,262 Thanks: 134 Thanked 75 Times in 51 Posts	We Only know what we think we see. __________________ Don't step on the grass, Sam "Freedom in general may be defined as the absence of obstacles to the realization of desires." Morality is doing whats right no matter what your told. Faith is is doing what your told do matter if its right or wrong. :

12-03-2010, 03:23 AM	#14 (permalink)
Lloydy KTF Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: England Posts: 11,976 Thanks: 533 Thanked 2,479 Times in 1,140 Posts	meh poison-types are nothing new __________________ Keep the red flag flying high

12-03-2010, 06:31 AM	#16 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	The quote was funny because I'm pretty sure that is what people scoff at religion for saying and not being able to prove. I don't discredit science to a 'belief system' entirely, but sometimes it really toes the line when weight is put on the 'we can perceive all the variables' .... In other words, it just sounds sill to say “What else can life do that we haven’t seen yet?” , which is likely the same thing humans have been saying since the beginning of time, scientist and mystic alike. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

12-02-2010, 09:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
José YaHookan Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,369 Thanks: 62 Thanked 149 Times in 74 Posts	This is the lake...

12-03-2010, 12:17 PM	#18 (permalink)
José YaHookan Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,369 Thanks: 62 Thanked 149 Times in 74 Posts	It says it's capable of, but it doesn't say that it always does it, you could be right though. That's still cool though no matter what.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)