chag sameach - Page 7

SmokeaJoint · 04-27-2011, 10:06 AM

Its called archetypes lol. Every book ever written, every story ever told share these things, Its not like the bible was the fucking origin lol.

And not all scientists are sitting there converting to religion and trying to prove God. Shit man, all that 4000 years of history, the Egyptians got some o that too. Does that mean Ra and God are on the same level?

Captain Cannabis · 04-27-2011, 12:26 PM

i wish science would prove the existance of god so everyone would shut up

**SageTree** · 05-02-2011, 11:08 AM

First of all.... Freaking awesome thread folks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad dog

Sage, the only way to get anywhere close to the truth is to study the Torah in hebrew.
It was written in hebrew and in some place aramaic. (which is very close to ancient hebrew).
Hebrew is an alpha numerical language, meaning all letters have a numerical value.

Almost a million religious jews devoutly study the torah and have studied it for thousands of years and are still not exactly sure what it really means.

We won't solve this on the internet.

However the point that all jews are ashkenazi and were converted to judaism is simply not true.

There is actually a place down the street from here that has Adult education classes on Judaism including some 101 language courses. I'm really interested in these, although I'm not sure if I have to be Jewish or Practice Judaism to join. I'm currently looking into this.

I'm not trying to quarrel with anything that you are saying, more or less....
But for the record, I never claimed or made any claim about what you've addressed in your last line of quoted text.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad dog

tell me, am I the only one here that thinks worshiping jesus as god is the same as idolatry?

I DO attend an Anglican Church, I HAVE attended Mosque, but unfortunately haven't ever gotten to attend Worship at a Synagogue... Since living here, I have visited one and walked and talked my way around the inside of the building with a Rabbi.

The Anglican Church is right down the street from here and have to say I feel little difference in attending any of these places. My worship is Monotheistic and I too approach the Faith of my Family in the same Light, that is, that there is one God.

I personally believe Christianity has been taken for a ride and based on the writing of early 1st century writings I can easily see how the 'Path' was formed.

This doesn't stop me from seeing the value in Jesus teaching of Selflessness and Looking inward and outward for the Intention in Practicing the Laws and Worship.

What's the point of getting good at Rituals if you forget why one does it?
ANY faith is subject to this.

Interestingly enough, I've been attending a Muslim, Jewish and Christian textual study group and 9/10 times I get the Jewish and Muslim heads nodding in approval, but not the Christians. The way the Jewish members of the group speak in terms of Self-Realization particularly touch me and my way of knowing the Self, which I've experienced through the Teaching of Guatma Buddha.

Mysticism in all three Branches are really fascinating to me, focusing on Unity of God, rather than details of descriptions, which is absurd to attempt, and feel this most accurately reveals how I feel and touch God, the Formless.

I can't lie though, I DO know why I'm at Church, but the Messiah part of it doesn't really phase me. I 'get' the allegory of the Trinity, but have to add that the God-Head is often the part of what is missed in Christian Worship.

God is at the top, singularly, and the Trinity is used to express the presence of God in the World. Again, I feel that this is often missed, and something I've nearly been skinned alive in Church for saying.

What I take from the message of Jesus has little to do with whether he actually died or not, or rose from the dead or not....

Right Action and Right Intention with the Aim of Selflessness and Love of God/Humanity is what impacts me in his message.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xil

at least from a catholic understanding, no. the idea of a triune god is pretty heavy/confusing philosophically, but the idea is that they all support each other in a way to make one being/god

and btw calling someone elses religion idoltry isn't gonna get much candid discussion going

I touched a little on the Trinity above, if you are keen to read.
But I have to agree... let's keep this Friendly for sure.
So far a great job has been done here, although there are a few historical "I'm not so sure that is trues" happening for me here....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad dog

Christianity was Paul's way of saying that you can be jewish without all of the hassle of being Jewish, just do as Jesus says. Paul was a jew as well.

Oh Paul..... He's literally my least favourite writer and unfortunately the one who spoke the loudest.

I'm reminded of the theoretical conversation between Paul and Jesus in Nikos Kazantzakis' book "The Last Temptation of Christ", where the Jesus who didn't die says to Paul that he is THE Jesus he speaks of, but didn't die and Paul says,"I don't care, My Jesus means more because he died and arose.", to paraphrase a bit..... And while THAT is fiction, I truly have my hunches about the how the Nature of Jesus was decided upon rather than reasoned.

The 'Historical' Jesus, of which we no nothing, might very well be because of his Human life being expunged from history.

Christianity was regarded as a Sect of Judaism for quite a while, and I think that speaks well of the logical approach to the 'Reforms' Jesus was suggesting.

Jesus says, supposedly, that he didn't come to abolish the Law, but fulfill it. To me that doesn't mean as the Messiah, I believe that means he came to breath new life into it, to help people touch the Heart of the Practice, and stop squabbling of details. I believe it's called missing the forest for the trees.

This is how I view the 'real' message of Jesus. VERY personally speaking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad dog

you just can't handle a people that still practice a 4000 year old religion.
We eat matza on passover to remember how we ate matza 3500 years ago.
we are in the land of Israel because we didn't let go of the fact that we came from Israel 2000 years ago.
Yor religion begins 2000 years ago after our religion had peaked and hit hard times.
We are infinately older than you and have an infinately better understanding of god than you. We have been studying him for 4000 years, thats 2300 longer than you.

How do you equate that to anti humanism. We suffer for humanity as a profession. And have done so for millenia.

Lest we forget how long the Hindus have been practicing and studying the Vedas?

The Vedic age and the practicing of the Rig Veda began around 1700-1500 BCE, as a matter of consideration.

And for the record, in it's highest knowledge and intent of knowing Brahman is a Monotheistic approach, but interesting enough ALSO has a triune expression of Birth, Life and Death, through 3 God's that are Ultimately part of Brahaman, the Supreme and Formless, ONE Creator-God.

I will say that Christians, who know anything about history, will say 'their' tradition began at the same time as 'yours' as Abraham is their patriarch as well. I feel that most Christians in my experience, would be served well by looking at the Hebrew Scriptures without such a Christo-centric view and perhaps even consider observing a couple of the Laws and Commandments.

Messiac Jews are controversial to Both side of the Fence, but I feel that represent a more accurate view of what Christianity SHOULD look like, although I'm not well versed enough to explain much further.

I can't dispute I don't see, sense and experience the hope of a struggling, suffering people, and I've heard it said that God chose the Jewish people to suffer, be spread throughout the world, so that every corner might have Light in it. I admire the duty and mission. And I do my best to observe the Holidays and incorporate them into my consciousness and experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

u guys gotta appreciate that bondi comes from a place where most people are j00z, it would actually be kinda cool to have that vibe. im so used to having to feel like an outsider and like everybody else will only treat me normally if they dont overtly recognize jewishness.

You're always welcomed warmly for what your bring to us J, in all your diverse ways

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanilla

j you shouldn't feel like an outsider, and no one should treat you that way

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad dog

kaffir means heratic, idol worshipper, pagan etc.........

Quote:

Kaffir (racial term): a term for Black Africans. The term was taken from the Arabs, who had used Kaffir to mean someone who was not a believer; in their case, a non-Muslim. Europeans then applied the term to Africans, as unbelievers in terms of the Christian faith

Kafir, a term used by Muslims for non-Muslims.

But didn't see any Hebrew reference.... do you have a link I could look at?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad dog

knowing isn't the same as believing.
believing isn't the same as knowing.
thats why its faith.

+1

Just because a book isn't full of Facts, doesn't mean that it's not riddled with Truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don

The sooner you realise you don't know what the fuck is up with anything is the first day you can actually say you are getting closer to the truth.

Beginner's Mind!

Ah yes.... who wants to lay claim to this one

!!!!!

You're right though mang..... maybe I mean!

!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad dog

Jesus is only first mentioned at least 70 years after his supposed death and mohammed some 300 years after his.

So the Jewish recorded ancient history in the Torah is the only indication we have for anything relating to god for at least 2000 years.

I feel it would be adequate to add how Moses knew ANYTHING about Abraham and his life, where that is recorded for a couple of thousand years and who wrote the end of the Books attributed to Moses after Moses died?

Oral traditions for $500 Alex?

And wow... that only took how long to write down?

I'd like to offer the Nag Hammadi library as proof to earlier writing of Christians

The Gospel of Thomas, written in Coptic, was dated to the year 80 CE, which was only 50 years, give or take after his 'death' and at that, it also gave time to travel and be translated/recorded in areas as far away as Nag Hammadi which is located in the Central Eastern part of Egypt.

Thomas is also attributed as the Archetype for all the other Gospels. It's also very Light on suggesting any kind of Divinity of Jesus....

Interesting stuff, no doubt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad dog

At least the Jews have an ancient script that does try to explain some things and tell of ancient history.

The Mahabharata, was interestingly ALSO completed around 400 BCE, and has TONS of history of India, it's culture/religion and people.....

So it's been around for a long time too is all I'm saying....

Is Hinduism your #2 choice for Defense or would that be Zoroastrianism, which was first expounded in the 6th century BCE?

I'm not picking on your dude... I'm just saying.... lots of shit is old, that doesn't make it absolute. However I respect your opinion to believe and act in whatever way you believe, so much as it's helpful and useful to the greater common good, my Friend

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

i would bet if u ask muslims, christians or jews , or anyone else, who is not a hard core religious person but more of a modern day liberal semi religious person, they would tell u that culture and tradition have far more to do with why u do something or believe in something than some hope for a future in paradise.

sometimes its nice to have an ancient tradition that u share with the people u love. would some non-religious family have a tradition of playing scrabble or of going fishing on the first day of spring? why is that so much better than having a few extended family get togethers and perhaps singing a song or two?

even thomas jefferson and the founding fathers thought that believing religion literally was ridiculous... .but because of its potential to inculcate good character, practices, morals, etc. they couldnt think of a way to have a society without it. its not some new revelation that a lot of the shit they talk about are probably stories.

I agree John, it's VERY cool to see how Cultures have shaped and been shaped by Religions. Many philosophies and theories in Religion have began as an answer or response to a problem or a reaction against something.

I admire the long standing traditions of people getting together.
Kwanza really gets picked on as a 'holiday' but I honestly don't see it as much different than other Unity holidays that are more 'well established'.

More than anything, I see religions and it's texts and practices as a set of ideals that people strive their best to express in hopes for a better life and a purer society, but I don't think they are absolute or finite. Many traditions has similar or similarly useful advice. Perennial Philosophy is something you might enjoy looking up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad dog

Science is based on theroies as is religion.
scientific theories try are based on logic, religios theories are based on faith.

This is one I fully agree with. Science, while highly useful, is susceptible like all things to be full of itself, and it's biases.

I ALWAYS ask, "How do we know we're testing all the variables, or how do we know we're thinking on the plane of existence to find the fullest answer?"

It has it's uses, I can't deny that. But how long can we preform tests on the tip of the iceberg before we see exactly what is left we don't know dick about?

Circumcised dick of course.....

I am btw

, just in case you were wondering about my peen.

Thanks for reading, and In all Truth, I'm only seeking Truth and also hoping to add some tempering to the knowledge, wisdom and opinions laid out here. We're all One and each of us carries knowledge and experiences that another doesn't and perhaps can't, because we are each a nerve ending of the Universe..... or Blind men trying to describe an elephant to each other... and feel it's honest to admit that.

Quote:

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he,
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

MORAL.

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

Ironically and all that said....

Discussing the Absolute Nature of God and the Mystery of the Universe is not the best use of our time.....

Especially without a health heaping does humanism for our Fellow Matter.

In peace and love,
SageTree

Terry · 05-02-2011, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parallax

so were the jews ever slaves of egypt or is it a fairy tale?

History says it's bullshit, but then you don't need history to realize a glorified caveman probably couldn't build a boat capable of sailing open ocean for over a month, a man couldn't survive for days in the stomach of a fish, and trumpets are not sufficient enough to destroy an entire fortified wall.

**SageTree** · 05-02-2011, 11:49 AM

One time I told Terry to blow it out his ass.... and that WAS earth shakin'

Just saying......

Bad dog · 05-11-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry

History says it's bullshit, but then you don't need history to realize a glorified caveman probably couldn't build a boat capable of sailing open ocean for over a month, a man couldn't survive for days in the stomach of a fish, and trumpets are not sufficient enough to destroy an entire fortified wall.

all of the semetic tribes have moved from fertile places to harsh places at least once in their history.
desert life is a cycle of fertile lands filling to overflow and tribes being pushed out into the desert.
were they die out or become strong and eventually return to conquer the fertile lands from which they were expelled.

the jewish story is just like this so there probably is some truth in it.

ps the term 'slave' was never fully defined in the egyptian terms.
rememember that Joseph was a slave and also prime minister at the same time.

04-27-2011, 12:26 PM	#122 (permalink)
Captain Cannabis safety word: more Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: m.i.a. Posts: 13,922 Thanks: 2,705 Thanked 3,174 Times in 1,812 Posts	i wish science would prove the existance of god so everyone would shut up __________________ fuck the monkeys

05-02-2011, 11:49 AM	#125 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	One time I told Terry to blow it out his ass.... and that WAS earth shakin' Just saying...... __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

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