oh crap - the markets

profit · 09-22-2011, 10:28 AM

Global Meltdown: Investors Are Dumping Nearly Everything

News Headlines

Quote:

With no solution in sight for Europe and new fears of a global recession, investors dumped stocks and commodities and ran to the safety of U.S. Treasurys.

Treasury yields , as a result, slipped to historic lows with the 10-year yielding 1.75 percent and the 30-year at 2.86 percent.

The dollar was also a beneficiary of a massive fear trade that sent U.S. stocks sharply lower, on the heels of steep sell-offs in equities markets around the globe.

The worst performing stock market sectors mirrored the sell-off in global commodities markets, with materials down 4.6 percent and energy stocks down 4.1 percent.

Copper, hit by concerns of a Chinese slowdown, tumbled 7 percent to a 1-year low. Gold, usually a safety play, was sold into the maelstrom as investors raised cash. The euro [EUR=X 1.3476 -0.0101 (-0.74%) ], broke below 1.35, a recent bottom of its range. It was trading in the 1.346 area, an eight-month low against the dollar. The dollar index [.DXY 78.38 1.04 (+1.34%) ] was 1.4 percent higher.

"People are finding it really isn't gold. It isn't precious metals. It's not currencies. U.S. Treasurys are where people are flocking to at a time of extreme concern about risk, and we continue to see Treasurys continue to get bid up," said Zane Brown, fixed income strategist at Lord Abbett.

The selling in risk assets picked up momentum after the Fed's statement Wednesday, in which it characterized risks to the economy as "significant" and noted that "strains in global financial markets" (or Europe) could be a catalyst. Then overnight, a preliminary China manufacturing data showed moderating growth.

The Fed unveiled the much anticipated "Operation Twist" program in an effort to drive down rates. The program got a lukewarm reception even though the Fed surprised markets with a plan to also buy mortgage securities.

The Fed intends to swap $400 billion in shorter dated Treasurys for the same amount in the 6-year to 30-year range. For the most part, traders worry the "twist" will do little to help the struggling economy.

"The Fed will have to go on a publicity tour over the next few weeks, coming out and stating what is the metric by which they will judge this as a success or failure," said Kevin Ferry of Cronus Futures.

"The metrics we look at—the financial conditions index—it's worse today," Ferry said. Spreads on a whole range of credit market indicators widened, including investment grade corporates, emerging market sovereigns, high-yield corporates, and municipal bonds.

Brown said he does not see the U.S. falling into recession , as the markets fear.

"The combination of consumers spending what they can, durable goods improving just at the margin, exports improving just at the margin and what the Fed does to promote lending should help us avoid a recession," he said. Brown said the Fed may spur some increase in bank lending, driving some economic activity.

"The activity on the part of the Fed is really going to make it difficult for banks to make money unless they start lending. That's what the Fed hopes will happen. Their rationale for doing this is to promote risk taking," he said.

The lack of resolution on Europe , however, remains the biggest culprit as investors worry the exposure of European banks to the sovereign crisis will kick off a global banking crisis. The EU, IMF and European Central Bank put off until October to determine what will be done about the next payment to Greece, without which it will default. Markets have been disappointed with the lack of a bigger plan of action from European leaders.

"I think it's about the lack of leadership anywhere in the world. We're seriously distressed about the lack of leadership and constant squabbling in Washington," Brown said.

The animosity between political parties was once more in the headlines Thursday as the House defeated a spending billi that would keep the government running. Republican majority leader Rep. John Boehner said he expects the bill to pass and blamed Democrats.

Questions? Comments? Email us at marketinsider@cnbc.c om

© 2011 CNBC.com

is today the day? is this the big one?

Flamingnun · 09-22-2011, 10:52 AM

No.

**SageTree** · 09-22-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

is today the day? is this the big one?

What do these mean to you?
What does the 'One' look like?

HTAM · 09-22-2011, 11:03 AM

The value is of the dollar US is rising omomomomom.

I just heard about a 20 year at 3.65%.

If there is a nice burst of re-fi's it could free up cash for debt reduction among those with the equity to do it.

Štulic · 09-22-2011, 06:47 PM

Plenty of money to be made in the currency market. I've followed the Aussie dollar on the move down from $1.11 USD to $0.97 today. It's 1400 pips in a month or so, with $500 initial investment in a short position, that'd be around $13,000 profit in one month.
Too bad I only jumped in at 1.0750...

Now I think we're about to reach a bottom somewhere, lot of equities are extremely oversold and trust me there's plenty of big guns with big money waiting to jump in and collect the bargains, we'll see a healthy rebound and a upwards correction soon.

Roach · 09-22-2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

is today the day? is this the big one?

not going to happen.

every time the market reaches -500, controls kick in and the fed then manipulates it.

todays low for example was near -500 controls are what brought it back to -400.

watch the world markets, yesterday Hang Seng was off nearly 5%

http://money.cnn.com/data/world_markets/americas/

today looks like........

tedkennedy · 09-22-2011, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Štulic

Plenty of money to be made in the currency market. I've followed the Aussie dollar on the move down from $1.11 USD to $0.97 today. It's 1400 pips in a month or so, with $500 initial investment in a short position, that'd be around $13,000 profit in one month.
Too bad I only jumped in at 1.0750...

I don't really understand how that works, i hate to be "that guy" but could you explain?

Roach · 09-22-2011, 08:24 PM

Foreign Exchange Rates and Currency Exchange Rate Calculator - CNNMoney

tedkennedy · 09-22-2011, 08:29 PM

^ i am aware that relative currency values fluctuate and are traded like stock... i mean how how does he figure a 26x profit on investmnet, where is this huge profit potential coming from is what i do not understand.

Štulic · 09-22-2011, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedkennedy

^ i am aware that relative currency values fluctuate and are traded like stock... i mean how how does he figure a 26x profit on investmnet, where is this huge profit potential coming from is what i do not understand.

It's basically really easy, it's called leveraged trading. For example you're trading the EUR/USD pair and you go long expecting the Euro to rise against the USD, current price is 1.3527.

Since every forex broker offers leverage up to 500:1 (which is way too high and risky), you can use 200:1, invest $500 and by the time the price reaches 1.3727 (which is just 2 cents or 200 pips) your $500 would have turned into $2000, minus the spread which is the difference between ask and bid price for the pair (usually between 1 and 4 pips) and it's what the broker pockets since no other fees or charges are involved.

In that case dollar-pip value would be $10 and spread would be like $20.

Using 400:1 leverage the dollar-pip value and profits double, as does the risk you're taking on with your investment if price goes against you.

Basically you're trading 4 decimal points of a currency pair value instead of just 2.

Štulic · 09-22-2011, 08:59 PM

How does leverage work in the forex market?

tedkennedy · 09-24-2011, 02:48 PM

^ ah ok, so its comparable to buying stocks on margin. thanks for a'splaining

profit · 09-26-2011, 05:11 PM

ok this is all very interesting and i understand bits and pieces, mostly the bigger pictures though. what is good what is bad how to measure how things are doing. all of these devices like derivatives and equities and leveraged trading of those and more? i am trying to understand all this stuff and have been for a while now but i keep thinking that it's convoluted intentionally.

this stuff is hollow and cant last long, im pretty sure of that.

BBC Speechless As Trader Tells Truth: "The Collapse Is Coming...And Goldman Rules The World" - YouTube

Sir-Ex · 09-26-2011, 05:20 PM

heh sweet. Global fail.

Roach · 09-26-2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

but i keep thinking that it's convoluted intentionally.

sounds like you're on your way to understanding.

Quote:

derivatives and equities

= financial products.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fErOz...eature=related

profit · 09-26-2011, 11:29 PM

it seems to me there is a lot of double speak going on. first of all leveraged trading sounds like some bullshit trading where one guy gets leverage, or an advantage. if you google "leveraged trading really means" the first result talks a lot about derivatives which i know are devices of fraud that result in gains of 1:20 -1:200. derivatives are a bunch of bullshit and are only legal because of the repeal of the Glass–Steagall and the dodd frank bill. making money off of money is fucked. i read that online today somewhere and it is true.

so i walk away thinking about how leveraged trading is not fair. just like free trade. its doublespeak free isnt fair. it's free for one side and it sounds like a derivative.

...hogwash racketeering house of cards bullshit. lets huff and puff 420 and blow it DOWN!

Galt · 09-27-2011, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by profit

ok this is all very interesting and i understand bits and pieces, mostly the bigger pictures though. what is good what is bad how to measure how things are doing. all of these devices like derivatives and equities and leveraged trading of those and more? i am trying to understand all this stuff and have been for a while now but i keep thinking that it's convoluted intentionally.

this stuff is hollow and cant last long, im pretty sure of that.

BBC Speechless As Trader Tells Truth: "The Collapse Is Coming...And Goldman Rules The World" - YouTube

My new favorite YouTube vid. Particularly love the admission of his ONLY goal as a trader. Keep that in mind every time that you hear a market type postulating and blathering on one of the news channels. Their job is to keep enough dumb money in play that they have something to move against.
Gold will come back (two steps forward, one step back) as a possible parking space until the scrip conflagration dies down (if you're not sold on the dollar as a "last resort") and then it's "everybody back in the pool"!

I especially love the BBC talking heads' remarks at the close. Can you say clueless? Speaks volumes about where the average idiot's mind set is...buried in their ass while singing "The Sun'll Come Out Tomorrow".

Roach · 09-27-2011, 09:20 AM

http://youtu.be/uNhBV2uGi4Y

Flamingnun · 09-27-2011, 09:32 AM

A trader who isn't focused on making cash is a shitty trader. That said, it's wise to bear in mind he's trying to influence what he wants to happen, by announcing his prediction live on the news...

Black · 09-27-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galt

Speaks volumes about where the average idiot's mind set is...buried in their ass while singing "The Sun'll Come Out Tomorrow".

but in all honesty, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

09-22-2011, 10:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
Flamingnun Shpadoinkle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: roflmao Posts: 17,491 Thanks: 1,046 Thanked 2,633 Times in 1,185 Posts	No. __________________

09-22-2011, 08:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
Roach Victoria Aut Mors Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7,182 Thanks: 2,372 Thanked 1,984 Times in 1,507 Posts	Foreign Exchange Rates and Currency Exchange Rate Calculator - CNNMoney __________________ לזיין את הקופים

09-22-2011, 08:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
tedkennedy now 14% blacker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,229 Thanks: 71 Thanked 585 Times in 364 Posts	^ i am aware that relative currency values fluctuate and are traded like stock... i mean how how does he figure a 26x profit on investmnet, where is this huge profit potential coming from is what i do not understand. __________________ matthew munari

09-24-2011, 02:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
tedkennedy now 14% blacker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,229 Thanks: 71 Thanked 585 Times in 364 Posts	^ ah ok, so its comparable to buying stocks on margin. thanks for a'splaining __________________ matthew munari

09-26-2011, 05:20 PM	#14 (permalink)
Sir-Ex Learner Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Posts: 11,413 Thanks: 1,725 Thanked 3,816 Times in 2,256 Posts	heh sweet. Global fail. __________________ Smile Ditch the cigs!!!!!!

09-22-2011, 11:03 AM	#4 (permalink)
HTAM Old School Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,872 Thanks: 2,368 Thanked 2,117 Times in 1,179 Posts	The value is of the dollar US is rising omomomomom. I just heard about a 20 year at 3.65%. If there is a nice burst of re-fi's it could free up cash for debt reduction among those with the equity to do it.

09-26-2011, 11:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
profit restore the republic Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,255 Thanks: 818 Thanked 357 Times in 237 Posts	it seems to me there is a lot of double speak going on. first of all leveraged trading sounds like some bullshit trading where one guy gets leverage, or an advantage. if you google "leveraged trading really means" the first result talks a lot about derivatives which i know are devices of fraud that result in gains of 1:20 -1:200. derivatives are a bunch of bullshit and are only legal because of the repeal of the Glass–Steagall and the dodd frank bill. making money off of money is fucked. i read that online today somewhere and it is true. so i walk away thinking about how leveraged trading is not fair. just like free trade. its doublespeak free isnt fair. it's free for one side and it sounds like a derivative. ...hogwash racketeering house of cards bullshit. lets huff and puff 420 and blow it DOWN! __________________ Cowardice asks the question - is it safe? Expediency asks the question - is it politic? Vanity asks the question - is it popular? But conscience asks the question - is it right? And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular; but one must take it because it is right. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. follow https://twitter.com/#!/curtiswm - sub http://www.youtube.com/user/66sicksfishstix

09-27-2011, 09:20 AM	#18 (permalink)
Roach Victoria Aut Mors Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7,182 Thanks: 2,372 Thanked 1,984 Times in 1,507 Posts	http://youtu.be/uNhBV2uGi4Y __________________ לזיין את הקופים

09-27-2011, 09:32 AM	#19 (permalink)
Flamingnun Shpadoinkle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: roflmao Posts: 17,491 Thanks: 1,046 Thanked 2,633 Times in 1,185 Posts	A trader who isn't focused on making cash is a shitty trader. That said, it's wise to bear in mind he's trying to influence what he wants to happen, by announcing his prediction live on the news... __________________

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