I honestly feel like if a person doesn't vote Ron Paul - Page 5

Snowmayne · 12-07-2011, 10:23 AM

adventure · 12-07-2011, 10:51 AM

5 pages and no one talks about the issues. I asked a question earlier on that got looked over.... Under a Ron Paul government how do you fund federal parks?

kamikazi89 · 12-07-2011, 11:42 AM

have you tried asking him directly?

stoneric · 12-07-2011, 12:30 PM

Ron Paul wants to bring the empire building to an end. That's all that matters because that is more unsustainable than any of our "entitlements". Just for that reason he'd have my vote.

The Rev · 12-07-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adventure

5 pages and no one talks about the issues. I asked a question earlier on that got looked over.... Under a Ron Paul government how do you fund federal parks?

Sorry. When you asked me that, I thought you were messing with me. The libertarian view on things like National Parks is that stuff like that isn't the job of the government. When Harry Browne ran for the libertarian party back in the 90's, he proposed selling off all that land to pay down the debt.

The Rev

HTAM · 12-07-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dhomnley

^Obama is sacrificing the planet you idiot. He was a supporter of the keystone pipeline or whatever that shit was to have an oil pipeline from Canada to US.

I like how you try to portray people as being idiots when you yourself don't even know what the fuck you're talking about.
Obama delaying Keystone pipeline to appease envelope stuffers, suggests McConnell - The Hill's Floor Action

The GOP including Boner, the Speaker of the House, have already attempted to press Obama to pass this with no consideration for the damage and hazards you just tried to pin on him. Mitchy Poo is calling the project "shovel ready"
GOP bill would force approval of Keystone XL pipeline from Canada - The Washington Post

Obama is already up the GOPs ass about trying to attach the payroll tax cut to any Keystone Pipeline legislation
Obama warns Congress not to attach payroll tax cut approval to Keystone Pipeline - 44 - The Washington Post

Good job on that, State of Derp

**Home Wrecker** · 12-07-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by profit

are you shitting me dude? all federal agencies are a joke. government is a fucking joke and if you cant see it then please do take some time and truly ask yourself what you believe and why you believe it.

I believe the government does have a role to play in running the country. It should be an extension of the will of the people but I don't like the idea of a skeleton government that does nothing but hold elections and leave everything else to private business. For me there are some things (like health care or social services) where the bottom line shouldn't be money.

Waves · 12-07-2011, 02:09 PM

*current federal agencies are a joke, no telling what the future will bring

systems will evolve, but systems will always be in place

government is simply our system for working together as a species

government will evolve, but governments will always be in place

i think the next step in the evolution of government is a shift away from established systems into maturity for us as a whole.

I was listening to daniel pinchbeck and Joe Rogan talk about this on the podcast last night actually.

Daniel made a very good point about how currently we all think democracy and capitalism is the end all be all, but really its an adolescent system. its full of angst and competition. Its the literal equivelent of a 16 year old kid who is still growing and learning about himself.

Anyway they were talking about how the next step for humanity is to shift away from this adolescence we are currently experiencing and to mature. Our infancy stage was from the time we were in caves and shit, adolescence is our movement away from home while still being at home (capitalism), and maturity will hopefully bring with it new systems that will be more efficient and more integrated with ourselves and the planet as a whole. Thats what growing up is all about, learning who you are and how you fit in with the world. We're doing the same thing on a mass scale with our governments and our economies that we do on a micro scale with ourselves growing up.

Which is how nature works, the macro IS the micro. Compare images of space to images of the inside of our brains.

So i guess my optimism is pretty justified i guess. I think good things are in store for us. Growing up is uncomfortable and you have to change alot and it can be really chaotic but once you get there you find yourself in an actual place of harmony with yourself and the world around you. At least I have. And its not like there is ever and end-point, even people who are grown up and "mature" find themselves still learning and growing. its just different general stages of development.

The point is though that we're still very young and we're still working out who we are and how we fit in. And our governments and societies reflect that. The only thing that makes logical sense to me is just accept it as it is and trust that everythings headed in the right direction. At least that way you arent a nervous fucking wreck.

Waves · 12-07-2011, 02:12 PM

Heres the podcast if anyone is interested btw:

PODCAST #136 « The Joe Rogan Experience

They cover lots of topics, for a guy like me who idolizes Leary, Alpert and McKenna this stuff is absolute brain candy.

Dhomnley · 12-07-2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adventure

5 pages and no one talks about the issues. I asked a question earlier on that got looked over.... Under a Ron Paul government how do you fund federal parks?

You aren't worth the time because you haven't looked up this yourself. RP is basically a libertarian, so google "libertarian".

Quote:

Originally Posted by HTAM

I like how you try to portray people as being idiots when you yourself don't even know what the fuck you're talking about.
Obama delaying Keystone pipeline to appease envelope stuffers, suggests McConnell - The Hill's Floor Action

The GOP including Boner, the Speaker of the House, have already attempted to press Obama to pass this with no consideration for the damage and hazards you just tried to pin on him. Mitchy Poo is calling the project "shovel ready"
GOP bill would force approval of Keystone XL pipeline from Canada - The Washington Post

Obama is already up the GOPs ass about trying to attach the payroll tax cut to any Keystone Pipeline legislation
Obama warns Congress not to attach payroll tax cut approval to Keystone Pipeline - 44 - The Washington Post

Good job on that, State of Derp

Rolling Stone has global warming articles that are paranoid as hell. They are following the keystone pipeline and the last issue gave him credit for not going through with this.

He was going to though.

K10 · 12-07-2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adventure

5 pages and no one talks about the issues. I asked a question earlier on that got looked over.... Under a Ron Paul government how do you fund federal parks?

The government doesn't. It would all be done through private interest groups and corporations. Fuck that. I understand the sentiment behind libertarianism and used to agree with it, but it really falls flat once it has left the realm of philosophy and entered the real world.

eldizle · 12-07-2011, 07:27 PM

what national parks?

i believe you're referring to my goddamned lumber. oil, coal and mountain lion farm. would you like to purchase a few tons?

Xil · 12-07-2011, 07:37 PM

this land is their land

kamikazi89 · 12-07-2011, 07:48 PM

~1~ · 12-07-2011, 08:19 PM

Penn Jillette Explains His Libertarian Philosophy - YouTube

HTAM · 12-07-2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dhomnley

Rolling Stone has global warming articles that are paranoid as hell. They are following the keystone pipeline and the last issue gave him credit for not going through with this.

He was going to though.

Rolling Stone Politics, huh? K........

Terry · 12-07-2011, 08:56 PM

Rolling Stone is a fucking joke and Matt Taibbi is a goddamned idiot.

kamikazi89 · 12-07-2011, 09:03 PM

why do you say that Terry?i'm curious.

lately i've been reading quite a bit of glenn greenwald from salon,,this isn't by him but it's on topic:
Why young voters love Ron Paul - Salon.com

Quote:

Why young voters love Ron Paul
It's not because they're potheads. It's because they're sick of America's militaristic misadventures
By David Sirota

Despite a sustained campaign by the Washington media and political establishment to marginalize him, Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, is still a serious contender for the Republican presidential nomination. That has a lot to do with the support he’s receiving from young voters. In almost every survey and activist straw poll, Paul draws big numbers from voters between the ages of 18 and 29.

The laziest way to explain the counterintuitive phenomenon of youth rallying around the GOP’s oldest candidate is to insist that it’s about kids’ silly college fling with unrealistic libertarianism or that it’s about kids’ affinity for drug use — and more specifically, Paul’s support for legislation that would let states legalize marijuana. This degrading mythology ignores the possibility that young people support Paul’s libertarianism for its overall critique of our government’s civil liberties transgressions (transgressions, by the way, now being openly waged against young people), nor does the narrative address the possibility that young people support Paul’s drug stance not because they want to smoke weed, but because they see the War on Drugs as a colossal waste of resources. Instead, Paul is presented as merely a fringe protest candidate, and the young people who support him are depicted as just dumb idealists, hedonistic pot smokers or both.

One problem with this fantastical tale, of course, is that it insults the intelligence and motivation of young voters. But another, even more troubling facet of this tale is how it uses speculative apocrypha and stereotyping about ideology and drugs to suppress concrete social survey data about the far-more-likely foreign policy motivations of young Ron Paul supporters.

Paul, of course, is one of the only presidential candidates in contemporary American history in either party to overtly question our nation’s invade-bomb-and-occupy first, ask-questions later doctrine and to admit what the Central Intelligence Agency acknowledges: namely, that our military actions can result in anti-Americanism fervor and terrorist blowback.

Predictably, Paul’s foreign-policy honesty has generated Washington media scorn (most recently and explicitly, as Glenn Greenwald points out, from CBS News’ Bob Schieffer). No doubt, that scorn has much to do with that media being disproportionately older, more establishment-worshipping and more hyper-militaristic than the general population. But far away from D.C. green rooms in Real America — and especially among younger voters — Paul’s foreign policy positions are generating the opposite of scorn. Indeed, as a new Pew Research Center report suggests, these positions are almost certainly a driving force behind the support for his candidacy.

The new study tracks how younger voters are now strongly rejecting traditional American hubris in favor of Paul’s more empirical views on foreign policy. For instance, it finds that while older citizens embrace American exceptionalism in insisting our culture is inherently superior, younger voters do not. But the key finding as it relates to Paul’s candidacy has to do with blowback, which Paul frequently discusses on the campaign trail. As Pew reports (emphasis mine):

Two-thirds of Millennials (66 percent) say that relying too much on military force to defeat terrorism creates hatred that leads to more terrorism. A slim majority of Gen Xers (55 percent) agree with this sentiment, but less than half (46 percent) of Boomers agree and the number of Silents who share this view is 41 percent. A plurality of Silents (45 percent) believe that using overwhelming force is the best way to defeat terrorism and 43 percent of Boomers share that view.

These findings have been largely ignored by the media and political establishment. That’s predictable. These poll numbers undermine the dominant fairy tale that Americans universally support status-quo militarism — and so they are largely omitted from the media discussion of the presidential election. It’s the same thing for Paul’s foreign policy positions in general — they are either ignored or mocked by a political and media culture that is ideologically invested in marginalizing them.

Nonetheless, there are two good pieces of news in all this.

First, whereas in earlier eras such establishment hostility to a politician’s position could prevent that candidate from making a serious run for president, polls show Paul’s foreign-policy message is likely getting through to a key demographic, giving him a genuine shot at his party’s nomination.

Second, whether Paul eventually wins the GOP nomination or not, the trends embedded in his current electoral coalition will affect our politics long after his candidacy is over — and even if you don’t support Paul’s overall candidacy, that’s a decidedly positive development for those who favor a new foreign policy. (A brief side note: This article is in no way a personal endorsement of Paul’s overall campaign — I have serious problems with some of his economic positions.)

With the defense budget bankrupting our budget and with our imperialist foreign policy making us less safe, the younger generation’s rejection of hubris and hyper-militarism — and that generation’s willingness to support candidates in both parties who similarly reject that militarism — provides a rare ray of hope in these political dark ages. And not just a fleeting hope — but a long-term one.

As the Pew data show, the younger generation, whose foreign policy views were shaped not by World War II triumphalism but by grinding quagmires like Iraq and Afghanistan, has a far more realistic view of America’s role in the modern world. While that position may shift somewhat over the years, the numbers are striking enough to suggest an impending cultural break from the past. As the younger generation assumes more powerful positions in society and more electoral agency in our democracy, the possibility of such a break gives us reason to believe America can create a new foreign policy paradigm in our lifetime.

adventure · 12-08-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dhomnley

You aren't worth the time because you haven't looked up this yourself. RP is basically a libertarian, so google "libertarian".

Rolling Stone has global warming articles that are paranoid as hell. They are following the keystone pipeline and the last issue gave him credit for not going through with this.

He was going to though.

I was not looking for an exact answer. I was not looking to start a fight, I was looking to start a discussion. Under a Libertarian government I am very concerned about the environment. I firmly believe all national parks would get destroyed. These precious landmarks could not survive without tax dollars.

kamikazi89 · 12-08-2011, 12:37 PM

yea, but think of all the innocent people not being bombed and made homeless by never ending wars ..it's a give and take really

12-07-2011, 10:23 AM	#81 (permalink)
Snowmayne Hero of the Internet Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,740 Thanks: 494 Thanked 4,294,967,295 Times in 958 Posts	__________________ We women, we gain weight because we accumulate so much wisdom and knowledge that there isn't enough space in our heads, and it spreads all over our bodies. We are not fat, we are greatly cultivated. Every time I see my curves in the mirror, I tell myself: "How amazing am I ?! "

12-07-2011, 10:51 AM	#82 (permalink)
adventure Adventure its good Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 4,742 Thanks: 1,852 Thanked 1,467 Times in 1,093 Posts	5 pages and no one talks about the issues. I asked a question earlier on that got looked over.... Under a Ron Paul government how do you fund federal parks? __________________ Coming Full Range

12-07-2011, 02:09 PM	#88 (permalink)
Waves Duderino Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: chiburbs Posts: 15,405 Thanks: 991 Thanked 4,036 Times in 2,224 Posts	current federal agencies are a joke, no telling what the future will bring systems will evolve, but systems will always be in place government is simply our system for working together as a species government will evolve, but governments will always be in place i think the next step in the evolution of government is a shift away from established systems into maturity for us as a whole. I was listening to daniel pinchbeck and Joe Rogan talk about this on the podcast last night actually. Daniel made a very good point about how currently we all think democracy and capitalism is the end all be all, but really its an adolescent system. its full of angst and competition. Its the literal equivelent of a 16 year old kid who is still growing and learning about himself. Anyway they were talking about how the next step for humanity is to shift away from this adolescence we are currently experiencing and to mature. Our infancy stage was from the time we were in caves and shit, adolescence is our movement away from home while still being at home (capitalism), and maturity will hopefully bring with it new systems that will be more efficient and more integrated with ourselves and the planet as a whole. Thats what growing up is all about, learning who you are and how you fit in with the world. We're doing the same thing on a mass scale with our governments and our economies that we do on a micro scale with ourselves growing up. Which is how nature works, the macro IS the micro. Compare images of space to images of the inside of our brains. So i guess my optimism is pretty justified i guess. I think good things are in store for us. Growing up is uncomfortable and you have to change alot and it can be really chaotic but once you get there you find yourself in an actual place of harmony with yourself and the world around you. At least I have. And its not like there is ever and end-point, even people who are grown up and "mature" find themselves still learning and growing. its just different general stages of development. The point is though that we're still very young and we're still working out who we are and how we fit in. And our governments and societies reflect that. The only thing that makes logical sense to me is just accept it as it is and trust that everythings headed in the right direction. At least that way you arent a nervous fucking wreck. __________________ On this life that we call home The years go fast and the days go so slow Last edited by Waves; 12-07-2011 at 02:15 PM.*

12-07-2011, 02:12 PM	#89 (permalink)
Waves Duderino Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: chiburbs Posts: 15,405 Thanks: 991 Thanked 4,036 Times in 2,224 Posts	Heres the podcast if anyone is interested btw: PODCAST #136 « The Joe Rogan Experience They cover lots of topics, for a guy like me who idolizes Leary, Alpert and McKenna this stuff is absolute brain candy. __________________ On this life that we call home The years go fast and the days go so slow

12-07-2011, 07:37 PM	#93 (permalink)
Xil OD'ing on sobriety Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mizzura Posts: 3,334 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,037 Thanked 1,158 Times in 717 Posts	this land is their land __________________ "we'll show these fascists what a couple of hillbillies can do"

12-07-2011, 12:30 PM	#84 (permalink)
stoneric bougeman Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5,646 Thanks: 704 Thanked 1,512 Times in 1,067 Posts	Ron Paul wants to bring the empire building to an end. That's all that matters because that is more unsustainable than any of our "entitlements". Just for that reason he'd have my vote.

12-07-2011, 07:27 PM	#92 (permalink)
eldizle Love. Share it. Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Inside a Microgram Scale Posts: 5,207 Thanks: 978 Thanked 591 Times in 423 Posts	what national parks? i believe you're referring to my goddamned lumber. oil, coal and mountain lion farm. would you like to purchase a few tons?

12-07-2011, 08:56 PM	#97 (permalink)
Terry Hello Darkness Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Moscow, Idaho Posts: 8,538 Thanks: 2,130 Thanked 2,392 Times in 1,189 Posts	Rolling Stone is a fucking joke and Matt Taibbi is a goddamned idiot. __________________ I don't know but I've been told, If you never die you'll never grow old

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