are there any absolute universal truths?

krangs_androidbody · 07-11-2003, 12:51 AM

what i'm really wondering is how can you trust someone if you don't know if they are serious or not. i guess, that's the root. but i mean, obiously people don't feel things the same way. but is there anything that everyone can agree on as reality? as anything?

so_thirsty · 07-11-2003, 01:47 AM

the one truth is god, every

SweetSativa · 07-11-2003, 04:38 AM

I AM

TJBUNDY · 07-11-2003, 05:23 AM

i guess when it comes down to it, there is no way to ever know if there are any absolute truths...but hey then that fact must be the only absolute truth! maybe?

ZenSkin · 07-11-2003, 06:28 AM

"I know nothing"

krangs_androidbody · 07-11-2003, 09:18 AM

it's funny to say things like that.
the only thing i can guarantee is that i can't guarntee anything? but if you make that guarantee than that is obviouslly a flawed statement. because one gurantee is certainly something.

but i just mean, are all of our notions of good and bad completey abstract? is there anything that is unconditioned? instinct?

do people just deny this?

blah blah blah?

blah blah?

blah.

TJBUNDY · 07-11-2003, 10:34 AM

i don't believe in good or bad, right or wrong, just human nature.

sput·nik · 07-11-2003, 10:44 AM

everything i feel, think, see, is energy.

i am energy.

you are energy.

god is energy.

we are god.

and of course, oj did it.

The Rev · 07-11-2003, 11:18 AM

[quote]Originally posted by krangs_androidbody:
<strong>what i'm really wondering is how can you trust someone if you don't know if they are serious or not. i guess, that's the root. but i mean, obiously people don't feel things the same way. but is there anything that everyone can agree on as reality? as anything?</strong><hr></blockquote>

All facts of reality factor down to assumptions which cannot be proven. That is, with all things real, it boils down to "existence exists." That's self-evident, but unprovable in any logical sense.

However, we have experience, brought to us by sifting sensory data through the belief systems we've developed through a lifetime's previous experience, and which proves out often enough to be reliable. "Sticking my hand in the fire hurts" being an example of such a belief. We add to that what we deduce to be true (thinking about and evaluating those beliefs in the face of new experiences; applying logic to that which is "known") and we have a pretty good set of tools for seeing reality in a human context.

How can we know that those basic assumtions on which our reality relies won't change? Like knowing the sun will come up tomorrow, we can't know for sure, theoretically, but we still seem to be able to treat it as a fact.

I wrote a thread on faith, which discusses the idea that a person must have faith in himself to bridge the gap between the need to take action (to survive, at least) and the human inability to know absolutely all the facts necessary to make a 100% sure decision. Perhaps this is the answer about indisputable truths you seek.

There are none, because we cannot know everything about everything. However, there are 99.99% sure things, and we must bridge the gap of .01% with faith that we will be right.

Perhaps the first Universal Truth is this: No risk, no reward.

The Rev

Logik[] · 07-13-2003, 01:05 AM

mathematics is the only universal truth

ZenSkin · 07-13-2003, 03:48 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Logik[]:
<strong>mathematic s is the only universal truth

</strong><hr></blockquote>

I take it you are not familiar with Gödel's incompleteness theorem ...

<a href="http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Godel.html" target="_blank">http ://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Godel.html</a>

choketoke · 07-13-2003, 01:44 PM

the only guarentee in life is death

07-11-2003, 12:51 AM	#1 (permalink)
krangs_androidbody Decade Yahookan Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,349 Thanks: 42 Thanked 67 Times in 52 Posts	are there any absolute universal truths? what i'm really wondering is how can you trust someone if you don't know if they are serious or not. i guess, that's the root. but i mean, obiously people don't feel things the same way. but is there anything that everyone can agree on as reality? as anything?

07-11-2003, 04:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,935 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	I AM __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

07-11-2003, 05:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
TJBUNDY Old School Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i guess when it comes down to it, there is no way to ever know if there are any absolute truths...but hey then that fact must be the only absolute truth! maybe? __________________ ...without her we are lifeless satellites drifting...

07-11-2003, 06:28 AM	#5 (permalink)
ZenSkin Admin Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 3,466 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	"I know nothing" __________________ Honk if you don't exist

07-11-2003, 10:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
TJBUNDY Old School Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i don't believe in good or bad, right or wrong, just human nature. __________________ ...without her we are lifeless satellites drifting...

07-11-2003, 01:47 AM	#2 (permalink)
so_thirsty Old School Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	the one truth is god, every

07-11-2003, 09:18 AM	#6 (permalink)
krangs_androidbody Decade Yahookan Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,349 Thanks: 42 Thanked 67 Times in 52 Posts	it's funny to say things like that. the only thing i can guarantee is that i can't guarntee anything? but if you make that guarantee than that is obviouslly a flawed statement. because one gurantee is certainly something. but i just mean, are all of our notions of good and bad completey abstract? is there anything that is unconditioned? instinct? do people just deny this? blah blah blah? blah blah? blah.

07-11-2003, 10:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
sput·nik denizen Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: the blackest lodge Posts: 4,080 Thanks: 142 Thanked 129 Times in 99 Posts	everything i feel, think, see, is energy. i am energy. you are energy. god is energy. we are god. and of course, oj did it. __________________ and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music . . .

07-11-2003, 11:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
The Rev Adorable Idiot Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: There's no one here. Posts: 22,079 Thanks: 6,142 Thanked 7,252 Times in 3,648 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by krangs_androidbody: <strong>what i'm really wondering is how can you trust someone if you don't know if they are serious or not. i guess, that's the root. but i mean, obiously people don't feel things the same way. but is there anything that everyone can agree on as reality? as anything?</strong><hr></blockquote> All facts of reality factor down to assumptions which cannot be proven. That is, with all things real, it boils down to "existence exists." That's self-evident, but unprovable in any logical sense. However, we have experience, brought to us by sifting sensory data through the belief systems we've developed through a lifetime's previous experience, and which proves out often enough to be reliable. "Sticking my hand in the fire hurts" being an example of such a belief. We add to that what we deduce to be true (thinking about and evaluating those beliefs in the face of new experiences; applying logic to that which is "known") and we have a pretty good set of tools for seeing reality in a human context. How can we know that those basic assumtions on which our reality relies won't change? Like knowing the sun will come up tomorrow, we can't know for sure, theoretically, but we still seem to be able to treat it as a fact. I wrote a thread on faith, which discusses the idea that a person must have faith in himself to bridge the gap between the need to take action (to survive, at least) and the human inability to know absolutely all the facts necessary to make a 100% sure decision. Perhaps this is the answer about indisputable truths you seek. There are none, because we cannot know everything about everything. However, there are 99.99% sure things, and we must bridge the gap of .01% with faith that we will be right. Perhaps the first Universal Truth is this: No risk, no reward. The Rev __________________ Budforce - My Friend August 29, 1973- May 25, 2012

07-13-2003, 01:05 AM	#10 (permalink)
Logik[] Old School Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	mathematics is the only universal truth

07-13-2003, 03:48 AM	#11 (permalink)
ZenSkin Admin Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 3,466 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	[quote]Originally posted by Logik[]: <strong>mathematic s is the only universal truth </strong><hr></blockquote> I take it you are not familiar with Gödel's incompleteness theorem ... <a href="http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Godel.html" target="_blank">http ://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Godel.html</a> __________________ Honk if you don't exist

07-13-2003, 01:44 PM	#12 (permalink)
choketoke Old School Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: victoria bc Posts: 248 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	the only guarentee in life is death __________________ drugs made me crazy

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