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Old 02-25-2003, 08:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Arrow DO YOU WANT THIS WAR ?

After just reading the new issue of time magazine I for the first time am getting the horrible feeling of YOUR life is not in your own hands anymore. I am sure many of you reading this feel the same way. say whatever cruel joke you want I will not die for this country. I do not respect our leader(?) nor his policies and decisions. as the French president said "war is a failure" and I agree with that.

as of right now US, Britain, Spain, and Bulgaria are the only nations for war they need 9 UN votes to approve of military action.

I realize this message is choppy, forgive me, there is too much I want to say but could not possibly take the time.

I am also nervous because being of selective service age I am looking for a way out (I do not need to hear any coward remarks I am not, I will die on my own terms or of some higher powers not "america") I want to know if there are any other war objectors, not CO's that is very hard to prove to a board (and yes you have to go in front of a board and state why you object and how you came to these beliefs and must present a portfolio along with it)

but if there are other ways out such as national guard, Canada, saying your gay, I don't know I looking for helpful suggestions or other supportive decent replies.

Thank you.
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Old 02-25-2003, 08:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I hate what our country has become, and I hate Bush, I hate the lies, and I hate his lust for Oil. So no. I'm as anti-war as they come.
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Old 02-25-2003, 08:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree 100% with you.


I have no problem in dying to fight for my beliefs, just as many before me have, although I dont ever believe violence is truly the answer.


America has gone too far, america cannot run the world, and needs to stop flexing it's muscles before they pull em, and find themselves on the ground.


This whole conflict is a perfect example of the US having too much power, too much voice, and too much hate. If anyother country tried to start this little conflict, and the US didnt support it, the case would have been dismissed the same month it came to be.


If I am forced to fight in the war, so be it. But hear this, it will not be on the side of the terrorists (USA). I will stand and fight up against the giant, simply because I am not afraid. I do not fear america, or the threat it presents.

Just think, this country is only about 225 years old, and its already trying to run this whole world. So far on the hitlist of america: North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq.....whos next? Will it be china?


Call me whatever you like, I still burn the american flag, and I will never respect a country that has failed to respect me, and the people of it.


After I say this, I usually get either one of two speechs.

"If you dont like the country, get the hell out" - my response? Give me 5 years, its not as easy as you think.


"If you think america is so bad, try living somewhere else" - Ignorance is bliss, and as long as you believe america is truly one of the greatest places to live, so be it. But dont cry to me when martial law kicks in, minorities are sent to "temporary placement areas" for the safety of the country, and survelliance continually increases while terrorist attacks become the norm.
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Old 02-25-2003, 08:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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[quote]Originally posted by supermarket:
<strong>I agree 100% with you.


I have no problem in dying to fight for my beliefs, just as many before me have, although I dont ever believe violence is truly the answer.


America has gone too far, america cannot run the world, and needs to stop flexing it's muscles before they pull em, and find themselves on the ground.


This whole conflict is a perfect example of the US having too much power, too much voice, and too much hate. If anyother country tried to start this little conflict, and the US didnt support it, the case would have been dismissed the same month it came to be.


If I am forced to fight in the war, so be it. But hear this, it will not be on the side of the terrorists (USA). I will stand and fight up against the giant, simply because I am not afraid. I do not fear america, or the threat it presents.

Just think, this country is only about 225 years old, and its already trying to run this whole world. So far on the hitlist of america: North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq.....whos next? Will it be china?


Call me whatever you like, I still burn the american flag, and I will never respect a country that has failed to respect me, and the people of it.


After I say this, I usually get either one of two speechs.

"If you dont like the country, get the hell out" - my response? Give me 5 years, its not as easy as you think.


"If you think america is so bad, try living somewhere else" - Ignorance is bliss, and as long as you believe america is truly one of the greatest places to live, so be it. But dont cry to me when martial law kicks in, minorities are sent to "temporary placement areas" for the safety of the country, and survelliance continually increases while terrorist attacks become the norm.</strong><hr></blockquote>

This soooo much applies to me. All same views with your first half of post and the second part... I get those same replies sooo much that they even say the same exact words you typed. Everyone in my little hick school is pro-American and when I start saying what stuff about America they say those things to me and call me a Nazi. I just tell them to gimme a couple thousand bucks and maybe I will move. And the Nazi part makes no sense when actually they are Nazis. They even go as far as stereotipicalize Canada n shit. Its so annoying but some of them are still cool kids so I still hang with 'em. I just don't like bringing up my beliefs unless its very necessary infront of them or they will turn all stupid on me. I burn flags too, Infact I have two in my dresser from today (The Army visits our lunch and haves them out for us) lined up for some scorching.
Another line they have is "Would you rather live in Iraq, terrorist?" As if Iraq is the only other country in the world, and just because I don't like Amerikka Im a terrorist.
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Old 02-25-2003, 09:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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This whole conflict is a perfect example of the US having too much power, too much voice, and too much hate. If anyother country tried to start this little conflict, and the US didnt support it, the case would have been dismissed the same month it came to be.

That is a very good observation. if the Eiffel tower was blown away with bombs by the taliban what would weapon of mass destruction would the USA whip out then, RATIONALIZATION
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Old 02-25-2003, 09:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Damn kids, Listen to yourself. "it's all about what people can and cannot do for me....

me, me, me....."
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Old 02-25-2003, 09:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The US probably wouldn't give a shit until they found out a beloved American on vacation was on the Eifelle tower when it happened. No one cares about the dead 142 dead consisting of French and some british vacationers. But whem that one American is found..... WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! HOW CRUEL YOU TERRORISTS BE! WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
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Old 02-25-2003, 09:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I used to think the human race were parasites, then I realized it was just the american population, in general.
From the government, to many of the people, parasites. They suck the resources out of the world, find ways to suck the resources more effeciantly, charge you for the resources they suck out. and of course you want the resources, beacuse for the passed few hundred years, its been trendy to buy and buy and buy.


Its a shame many societies are flowing with the american one, but I can almost feel a turn of events approaching. I dont think the world will continue this horrible lifestyle for much longer. You can see people slowly awakening to the world in which we live, and this is changing many things.
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Old 02-25-2003, 09:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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from the way it sounds right now the u.s. is going to go to war weather it has u.n. approval or not.
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Old 02-25-2003, 10:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Super,

I've been feeling like a change similar to that is on its way too. Awakening is a good way to put it.

I've only ever been interested in wealth so far as being in a position where I wouldn't have to worry about it, wouldn't have to live paycheck to paycheck. I suppose that's mostly a function of my distaste for consumerist society, yet partly because I'm also immersed in it. My personal ideology longs for a society free of internal power struggles and centrist authority - not anarchy, but populism at its finest and least authoritative. I suppose that's an impossibility, but I sure think it'd be a good direction to move in.

My views on this war have been pretty well spelled out, and I feel for those of you who may be caught up in conscription south of the border. No one in their right mind would consider Saddam a just, fair, or pious man, but the threat he poses has been infinitely overstated. Moreover, you can't force regime change onto another region and make it work for the long term, unless the people of that region are ready and crying out for it already. There's far too many militant fringe groups existing alongside Saddam in and outside Iraq's borders for it to be sustained long term by the people there, anyways. Afghanistan has taught Bush et al that lesson already, which is further proof this isn't about freeing the Iraqi people from a sinister Saddam Hussein. Let's just hope the world's voice becomes too overwhelming for Bush to deny.

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Old 02-25-2003, 10:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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A lot of people are sensing a change thats too come. Now Im not one to jump to conclusions, I usually like to experience something and know Ive experienced it before I claim I know it, but I believe I'm experiencing it.


For one, emotions are getting stronger, and less controllable. People are getting MUCH more upset over smaller things, much more angry, but also experiencing periods of love to extremes. Our emotions seem to be going haywire.

Secondly, our perception as a whole of the world is , or is about to change. Mine already has, but I see many more people awakening to our world.

Some examples:

- we are starting to see animals as equals, and realizing certain animals (dolphins, etc) might even match us, or come close intellectually. We are understanding they communicate in complex ways, as well, and share many emotions we do. They even have their own societies.

- We are realizing much of mainstream products, music, news, etc is weak. By weak, for example - many products are false, almost all of the food from fast food industries is HORRIBLE for your body, the news is extremely bias, religion has been manipulated or watered down, mainsteam music is fake, and just for money usually.

50 years ago, although times were much different, we saw things MUCH differently. We are also awakening to the damage being done to our planet, and realizing (remember that paper addressed to the UN with something like 1600 world scientists saying if we dont change our ways of living COMPELTELY destruction of our planet is inevitable?)


Also, humanity supposively, according to NASA, doubles its information every four years, and they believe that will change to every two years very soon. They are actually 5 years behind in entering all the data we learn. That means less than half of the information we know has really been analyzed and recorded.


Weather changes are of course apparent, have you noticed how ALL governments seen to be really upset, and unsure of whats going on? Think its just because of war? I dont, I think they know we humans are about to take a step up in evolution, and dont know how to keep control.


If you think a lot of what I said is nonsense, perphaps it is, but I double checked most of this information by experiencing it myself, directly from within.


Sorry to get off topic, but then again this war might just be a way to take our minds off of the real "current events"
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Old 02-26-2003, 03:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Fuck off. I'm not American, but I'd rather have the US in charge of everything like it is now, than fucked up fundamentalist middle-eastern countries. Anti-Americanism is such a bullshit trendy thing at the moment. People are happy to take food and aid and occasional belated military assistance from the US when they need it.
[quote]as the French president said "war is a failure" and I agree with that.<hr></blockquote>
What the hell would he know. The first sign that there's a decent war on is that France has surrendered/been invaded.
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Old 02-26-2003, 08:26 AM   #13 (permalink)
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[quote]Originally posted by espiex:
<strong>Fuck off. I'm not American, but I'd rather have the US in charge of everything like it is now, than fucked up fundamentalist middle-eastern countries. Anti-Americanism is such a bullshit trendy thing at the moment. People are happy to take food and aid and occasional belated military assistance from the US when they need it.

What the hell would he know. The first sign that there's a decent war on is that France has surrendered/been invaded.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ignorance is bliss.
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Old 02-26-2003, 11:04 AM   #14 (permalink)
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That really is all that needs to be said.

Well put, Super.

RoD
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Old 02-26-2003, 04:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 02-26-2003, 04:46 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Wow, now aren't those posters some prime examples of fact distortion at its finest.

Yeah, real convincing argument.

Only the ignorant would buy or purport those "war benefit" claims as the whole truth. Give your head a shake.

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Old 02-26-2003, 10:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Arrow

i thought it was funny
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Old 02-27-2003, 07:31 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The US has no acceptable reason to invade Iraq. Saying that Iraq as a country is a threat to the US is a joke. They have practically no army, no long range weapons capability, and probably no intent to attack the US. Now the UN is telling them to disarm as 200,000 US troops are poised to attack them. Basicly they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, do they disarm and run the risk of having no defences against a US attack? Or do they keep thier arms and face certain attack. The whole thing now seems to be over some missiles that can fly a mere 15 miles above the UN specified range, but still cannot even reach anything ouside of the country. Unfortunately for them, this will probably be the go ahead for the looming war. It's pretty obvious to me that Bush wants this war, whatever his reasons are, you can see the anxiousness in his face, he is practically salivating to attack.
The worst part is that this will probably increase the threat of US based terror attacks by tenfold. The more disorder and volatility that is created by war, the more the threat of terrorism. Further instability in the Mid-East will just create a larger breeding ground for terrorism. Now North Korea is getting fingers pointed at it. Seems to me that Bush likes to make enemies, but if he was truly concerned about homeland security, would he be going around threatining multiple countries, and stretching his military to the max? I think not.

The US, and in fact all of the 'free world' seems to run more smoothly when there is a common enemey, it makes people not notice the wrong or immorral things that happen in ones own country; lets people believe that they are the 'good guys'. Problem was that for the past ten years prior to 9/11 there was none. The USSR had fallen apart, China had become a land of commerce, Japan and Germany were held in high regard as thier cars were purchased in record numbers. There was no one to call the enemy.And people needed an 'evil' to be able to see themselves as being 'good' Even after the evemts of 9/11, people were confused, they did not understand terrorism, and could not accept the concept of having a threat that did not have a country's name attached to it. This is the reason, in my opinion, for this war.
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:53 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Hey Bud, I like your theory. Quite plausible.

Anyways, just a quick note about those missiles. Apparently they are capable of flying like 160km right now (like you said), but they are empty husks with no weaponry in them. Iraq contends with explosive arsenal loaded on them and tracking systems, they fall under the requirement. Not saying it's true, but I don't think empty metal cannisters that fly 10 km past the maximum range pose too much of a threat to anyone.

RoD
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Old 02-27-2003, 01:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Your right there as well Rector, that range was calculated with an empty missile.
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