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Old 07-24-2004, 03:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Should American Citizens Pay Taxes...

...If they do not reside in the United States?


In my opinion they should continue to pay taxes as long as they receive services of the US government.


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Old 07-24-2004, 06:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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who gives a fuck? you're not a very honest person corona! i don't think ANY citizens of america should pay taxes. same with aus. maybe if our governments treated us with alot more respect we could give them 5 dollars a week for taxes
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:18 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitfall
who gives a fuck? you're not a very honest person corona! i don't think ANY citizens of america should pay taxes. same with aus. maybe if our governments treated us with alot more respect we could give them 5 dollars a week for taxes

bitch I aint got 5 bucks...

where the fuck imma get 5 bucks from???

fuck that noise...the fact I dont go assasinatin' govt officals everyday is payment enough to those fucks...
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:19 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitfall
who gives a fuck? you're not a very honest person corona! i don't think ANY citizens of america should pay taxes. same with aus. maybe if our governments treated us with alot more respect we could give them 5 dollars a week for taxes


That didn't make any sense but I appreciate your opinion.
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
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why doesnt it make any sense? still in fucking 5th grade yeah?? this is what i meant: NOBODY THAT'S CONTROLLED BY A FASCIST SYSTEM SHOULD PAY TAXES. BUT IF WE HAD MUCH BETTER GOVERNMENTS WE COULD HELP THEM OUT A TINY BIT. WHATEVER WE THINK THEY DESERVE. JUST HAVE IT SO IT'S "EQUAL" AND MORE FAIR.
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:33 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I was refering to the "honest" part.



No matter how anarchist you are you still must acknowledge that your government provides you services. The roads you drive on, the fire men who save your house and outside of America your health care.


All these things need payed for. Now the debate over where are money should go is an entirely different thread.
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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i'd assasinate bush for 5 dollars (in theory )
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:46 AM   #8 (permalink)
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well then, yeah! but we should be able to decide where our own personal taxes go! i dont want it all spent on military etc. i would be glad to give money to places that need it, hospitals etc! i'm not an anarchist, i just want fairness! i dont give a shit if the government provides public transport etc, any NEW government could do this. but yeah, we're talking about the current situation. it doesnt matter how bad the government get, theyre still KINDA looking out for us. you're not honest. you never get into deep conversation or anything. all i see you do is slander most of the time. the most honest indepth humane posts i've seen from you have all been political.
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Old 07-24-2004, 07:07 AM   #9 (permalink)
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well stand up or shut up ron. somebody should seriouslly kill him. there's got to be 1 person in america that has nothing to lose.
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Old 07-24-2004, 09:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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^ *laughs*

And once upon a time I helped to service people like that. I tell ya, tax, and tax avoidance are BIG business and a lot of people make a lot of money on both sides of the coin, customers and service providers.

But that's a different issue.

Tax payable for those using the USGs what precisely Corona? As an embassy? What are such people domicile situation? How long do they spend in each nation etc etc. Tax payable as to where you were born or raised seems a little harsh. OK so you may have some virtual debts in the sense that you have used gov services whilst still in the US.... but then your continued service use abroad must also be paid for, you're not at the end of the day using, say, the US' street lighting.

Tax and tax payment is a contentious issue.

Idealists (I'm looking at Pitdall here ) always say yeah but I don't use this that and the other service but usually fail to recognise just how many national/local government sourced services they actually unwittingly use, the aforementioned streetlighting is a good example.

If we CHOSE where I tax was going there would be huge over provision on services WE think WE will use (education, general health, roads, certain parts of crime and justice etc) and huge underprovision for those services which are more holistic and less easily accountable to personal well being (certain parts of crime and justice, "dull" service (streetlight, gritting, power), localised service (tidal protection, specific environmental projects), the list goes on).

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Old 07-24-2004, 10:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Pitfall
i dont want it all spent on military etc. i would be glad to give money to places that need it, hospitals etc!

You live is australia. How much money really gets diverted to the military superpower that is the austrailian army?

As to the topic of the thread at hand, while we do recieve untold benefits from tax-funded ventures. However, whose to make the determination of just what services people are recieving from said government, i.e. would a U.S. citizen living in angola be subject to the same taxes as one living in arkansas?

How would you account for differences in revenue? Someone in guatamala is sure to be making less than say, a web designer in california.

It's plausible, but has it's flaws.
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Old 07-26-2004, 02:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Shutup fuckhead!! Australia is geographically the size of America and shit, so can people please stop looking at Australia as some tiny island full of kangaroos or whatever. The Australian army is pretty big! And may I add that it’s one of the best armies and the only REAL army that are helping out in the iraq war with the Americans. Being that we’re on that bullshit “coalition of the willing.” Not all of the money goes directly to them. They’re buying all kinds of silly devices for anti-terrorism and we’ve already given something like 56 billion to America for THEIR anti-terrorism plans. If you guys ever did get that “star wars” system going, I bet you we’d be next! I know what you’re saying sureshot, but who are the governments to say that they own electricity, nature etc. They may think they’re gods, but they’re far from it. And please don’t label me things like “idealist.” I’m not one of those. I may write a bunch of new ideas for songs or whatever everyday, but that’s different.  I just know that all governments are corrupt to an extent, who doesn’t?
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Old 07-26-2004, 03:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
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There are several armies that are "actually" in Iraq. Besides the point.


Granted that you don't use the same services that someone from the States uses. Maybe we could have a lower tax bracket for these people. I mean you're still using things like consular services which are numerous much like the street lighting example.


It's an interesting topic of which I'm going to have to deal with in about 2 months.
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Old 07-26-2004, 04:06 AM   #14 (permalink)
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@Real Corona - The average ex pat will use the consulate rarely, and again, usage will be largely depending on precisely what their domicile state is (there is a big difference between a working 6 months abroad with an intention to return or full emigration with no intention to return).

The theoretical arguments are there, just, for a non domestic tax but in practise it is entirely unworkable, for example, who enforces the tax collection? Whilst out of the US they cannot be made subject to US laws, it would have to be voluntary or internationally regulated, neither of which would EVER happen. Harmonisation, harmonisation my arse.

@Pitfall -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitfall
I know what you?re saying sureshot, but who are the governments to say that they own electricity, nature etc. They may think they?re gods, but they?re far from it.
They don't say they own it. The government (theoretically) is there not to own resources but to manage OUR resources on behalf or US on a holistic NATIONAL (or whatever government we are talking about) level. So who to say it? Well we are...

We simply can't individually micro-manage our own environments.

It is not feasible.

A government, ANY government (or means of governance) is ultimately nothing more than a compromise. There will always be those MORE and LESS happy with their outcomes.

That's life, no one ever said life was supposed to be fair and contrary to popular belief we don't have an automatic right to comfort and enjoyment, no one does, no one ever has, and no one ever will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitfall
And please don?t label me things like ?idealist.? I?m not one of those. I may write a bunch of new ideas for songs or whatever everyday, but that?s different. ? I just know that all governments are corrupt to an extent, who doesn?t?
I will label you what I please, with all due respect you begin your post with labelling someone as a "fuckhead", a least my labels have some meaning and are not simply insults. I'll give you the respect you give others. You almost constantly berate people, telling them how wrong they are for not agreeing with you, this in itself if labelling. And labelling at it's very worst, it would take a lot for me to label someone as blanketly WRONG.

Do unto others etc etc.

Now onto the point I don't label you as an idealist because you "write songs" I label you in the main part an idealist NOT because of your views per se but rather the way in which you present them. You have NO FLEXIBILITY and the inability to grasp anyones point of view apart from those that support your initial stand.

That's not to say that some of your views don't verge on the idealistic themselves.

Do you really really want to know why all our governments are corrupt?

Yes?

Well I'll tell you.

The reason governments are corrupt is because they are human.

They are inherently self serving and equalliy easily fallible just like you me.

Governments represent people, not represent them as in do their bidding, but represent them as in reflect their views.

We have bigotted, unfair, unmoralled, theiving, self centred, racist, power mongers in power because **DUM DUM DAAAAAAAA** WE are in the main bigotted, unfair, unmoralled, theiving, self centred, racist powermongers.

The infamous "They" just have a bigger stage on which to scheme.

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Old 07-26-2004, 04:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
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You do realize that this is a reality?

The US government now requires its citizens who live outside the country to pay taxes on their income.
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Old 07-26-2004, 04:50 AM   #16 (permalink)
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^ Again, you just say "US citizens living outside the country", those on temporary secondments abroad will have some tax liability, I'm talking about permanent ex patriots.

Now if there is a tax for them, I would LOVE to see the paperwork.

If I left the US permanently, which luckily I don't have to do as I'm already gone, they could whistle for their money as far as I'm concerned, how precisely are they going to enforce my payment?

[EDIT - You're talking about US passport holders rather than people who intend to change nationality, in which case yes pub.54 covers all the rules you need, if you hold a US passport and intend to return eventually then some tax liability is fair.]

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Old 07-27-2004, 09:10 AM   #17 (permalink)
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no worries sureshot. but they do think they own everything. they dont let people sell stuff on the streets, they charge people for water etc. governments are human, but that isnt the only reasons that they are so corrupt. i'm human, i dont want to fuck people over in more ways than one. that soldier that died on fahrenheit 9/11 died 5 days before his tax or whatever. because he wasnt alive to be able to pay for those days the us government sent his family that extra bill. sureshot seems to like taking it up the arse. i'm not against ORDER, but it's way out of hand and is getting worse! the government will tell me what toilet paper to use next!
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Old 07-27-2004, 11:53 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Oh lordy, I don't have the enrgy for this but you really deserve it...

You of course realise you are:

a) a hypocrite;
b) stupid;
c) the same, if not worse, than Bush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitfall
no worries sureshot. but they do think they own everything. they dont let people sell stuff on the streets, they charge people for water etc.
This is just an utterly retarded statement that I can't figure any meaning into...

They don't let people sell things in the street? They don't allow unlicensed street vending , that's a slightly different thing. Frankly I'm glad you can walk down a street and not get surrounded by 25 hawks trying to sell you the latest ripped of DVD. And for fucks sake, what kind of a big deal is that, for small producers there is THOUSANDS of opportunities to sell your goods THOUSANDS. A couple I know recently sold up their shop front store and started to do stalls at the travelling fairs and shows and they make a far better living anyway, the opportunities are there for an entreprenorial character to make money "selling".

They charge people for water?

No, THEY CHARGE YOU FOR THE CONVENIANCE OF HAVING IT COME DIRECTLY TO YOUR HOUSE... you know, so you don't have to go down to the nearest river to wash your clothes, clean your body and drink your fill... ooh and don't forget to boil out (do you mind paying for electricity or do you want to go make a fire?) all the nasty impurities so you don't die of some water born bacterial disease.

Come back and tell me free plumbed water is feasible once you've built a nationwide delivery system and then maintained it for awhile, it ain't cheap brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitfall
governments are human, but that isnt the only reasons that they are so corrupt. i'm human, i dont want to fuck people over in more ways than one.
No?

You treat everyone with equal respect and fairness regardless of whether they agree or disagree with you? You consider all sides of a decision before making it? You don't allow personal bias to affect your judgement ever?
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So how come in your last two repliess you've called Ellis D a "fuckhead" and implied in a derogatory way that I'm homosexual. Now if that's not ignorant,and showing extreme bias I frankly don't know what is. Certainly isn't in the spirit of political debate now is it?

"Y'all gays anyhow".

I hate it that homosexuality is an insult, who gives a fuck about my sexuality. I could fuck horses and it wouldn't affect my brain until a particularly frisky one kicked......

...shhhh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitfall
that soldier that died on fahrenheit 9/11....
I don't accept propoganda at face value, Bushist or Moorist.

The core of your argument that the nanny state is getting worse is true, and I agree entirely, but frankly I don't buy the grand conspiracy theory.

The world is fucked up because HUMANS, almost ALL humans, ARE GREEDY, NOT because a small number of people are controlling the rest. This greed leads to corruption but this corruption is just a larger scale manifestation of corruption that is present in all our lives.

There is a Serbian proverb...

A greedy father has thieving sons.

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Old 07-27-2004, 01:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I hate it that homosexuality is an insult, who gives a fuck about my sexuality. I could fuck horses and it wouldn't affect my brain until a particularly frisky one kicked......
SS

i beg to differ, i think if you were fucking horses, you would have deep phsycological problems. but im not a doctor........

i live in the US, and i dont pay income tax, i havent in years. this isnt due to any political belief, im just an outlaw. i could go off and say its because i hate the government and dont want my money bieng used for war, but that simply would not be true. the truth is, i just dont care. i think others should adopt my philosophy.
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Old 07-27-2004, 01:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
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sureshot

that was rather....unobtuse.. .

hopefully effective...

it takes a great deal to hold back, in my case blathering invective, when
one user only throws insults in any political debate...one thing to disagree..
even angrily...another to throw insults..

... constantly...

I've never read another poster who constantly pushes me to take positions
to the right of where I feel I should be...but the constant arsefucking, and
not even refering to insults towards me, time and time again is a mystery..

..and ironic when it comes from someone who claims to understand karma
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