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Old 09-28-2004, 09:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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What really freaks me out about people who truly support this 'war on terrorism' is how quickly we forget history. People refer to the 'Iraqi war' like it's the end, rather than the beginning. Already we're short Troops in Iraq (by their own admittance) yet we're maintaining a 4 year minumum occupation now. And already Iran is getting the evil eye from us, and Isreal has their gloves on. The Bush Administration, if they win, have 4 more years to get done what they need to get done. Terrorism will somehow become a huge focus in America (even despite the lack of apparent terrorism) and Security will 'need to be increased for safety.' A poll recently claimed 50% of America is willing to give up rights for increased Security.

It seems people keep forgetting we're in the first 1-2 years of this 'war on terrorism.' We've only begun to start.
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Old 09-28-2004, 09:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Those willing to give up rights for security deserve neither. And once you give up one , you WILL lose the other.
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Old 09-28-2004, 10:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I predict (or hope) that the GOP will find a more moderate candidate for 08 - whether Bush wins or not.

Either way, i imagine there will be a growing movement towards civil liberties by way of democrats and liberals....which will be followed again, by the conservative years after those.

see the last couple centuries for more insight....
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Old 09-28-2004, 11:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ego Tripping
A poll recently claimed 50% of America is willing to give up rights for increased Security.

Can you post a link?


I really don't think that with every terrorist attack that a 'new patriot act' will be made until we become 'Nazi America'. If that does happen, then a lot of people including me will get very angry. That's not a very smart way of going about obtaining power, which most of you should know for those that think Bush is in some huge conspiracy.

Who thinks the Iraq war is 'the end'? That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard.
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Old 09-29-2004, 12:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
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That's not a very smart way of going about obtaining power, which most of you should know for those that think Bush is in some huge conspiracy.

No its not smart. ITS FUCKING BRILLIANT. its the same way Hitler took power. And so far even though he was a horrible fuck, history still holds him as one of the greatest strategists who ever lived. By having people burn down the reishtag and then blaminmg it ont he opposition and jews. SO THERE GOES your little argument. and BUSH IS NOT PART OF A CONIPRACY. HE IS PART OF AN AGENDA, for which to succed, certain people have to consipre to do certain things.

UM the USA IS ALREADY A POLICE STATE. The patriot ACT 1 and 2 have pretty much abolished your rights. Ascroft has said he will not bring back the constitution or bill of rights.....THATS RIGHT YOU FOOLS you havent had a constitution since the great depression (***1929***). Who ever the cheif was back then abolished it under the war and emergencies act, and no president since then has signed it back into power. - THats on paper at least.....


COURTS
In lousiana the courts have abolished the 4th amendment, which i beleive means the pigs and fed no longer need a warrant to search you. According to the courrts rulings, an officer of the peace must only feel threatened to search you, and that search will stand up in court.
AND WHEN I SAY SEARCH YOU ... that includes your Homes, Cars, and anyting you own(including your asshole)

Now personal

HAVING CURFEWS FOR CHILDREN IS IN NO WAY HAVING A FREE SOCIETY. AS A TOURIST I WAS ARRESTED 7 NIGHTS IN A ROW IN MICHINGAN(CLINTON TOWNSHIP) FOR BEING OUTSIDE AFTER 9(I WAS 16 AT THE TIME). I WAS WITH MY COUSIN WHO WAS 20 AND I DID HAVE MY PARENTS PERMISON TO BE WITH HIM. DID ABSOLUTLY NOTHING WRONG. WE WERE IN HIS TRUCK DRIVING HOME EACH NIGHT FROM HIS GIRLFRIENDS, AND EACH TIME B4 MIDNIGHT. EVERY TIME THE STATE POLICE STOPED US, CUFFED US AND FIRST DROVE US TO THE LOCAL "GESTAPO HOUSE", PROCCSED US THEN DROVE US HOME. IM SORRY BUT THATS TOTAL BULLSHIT. I CAN UNDERSTAND GIVING A CURFEW TO A TEEN WANNA BE TUG(THUG) WHO LOITERS AROUND IN FRONT OF KRISPY KREME OR SOME MALL AND STARTS FIGHTS...BUT TO BE TAKEN OUT OF A TRUCK, AND CUFFED AFTER NOTIFING THE PIGS OF THE SITUATION AND THAT I WAS A CANDIAN CICITZEN IS NOTHING LESS THEN BEING IN THE NEW NAZI HOMELAND SO FUCK YOU AND FUCK ALL THE OTHERs WHO THINK THAT THE US IS AT ALL A FREE COUNTRY AND NOT A POLICE STATE
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttd010101
UM the USA IS ALREADY A POLICE STATE. The patriot ACT 1 and 2 have pretty much abolished your rights. Ascroft has said he will not bring back the constitution or bill of rights.....THATS RIGHT YOU FOOLS you havent had a constitution since the great depression (***1929***). Who ever the cheif was back then abolished it under the war and emergencies act, and no president since then has signed it back into power. - THats on paper at least.....
I don't believe that the Patriot Act II has really been passed. There may have been some bullshit provisions passed attached to other bills that some have claimed are the Patriot Act II, but as far as I know it has NOT been passed. I HAVE seen sites claiming it was, but I believe that they are just calling some things the Patriot Act II which actually aren't it. We DO have a Constitition. Saying we don't is a myth. The War and Emergencies Act is only in effect in a state of emergency and legislation in 1976 closed the loophole that would allow the 1933 W&A act to remain open: "In 1976 Congress passed the National Emergencies Termination Act, which specified that any national emergency not extended by the President on an annual basis will be automatically terminated." This means that you posted bullshit and misinformation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ttd010101
COURTS
In lousiana the courts have abolished the 4th amendment, which i beleive means the pigs and fed no longer need a warrant to search you. According to the courrts rulings, an officer of the peace must only feel threatened to search you, and that search will stand up in court.
You're talking about ONE ruling in ONE case in ONE state. I actually had evidence thrown out against me in New Orleans because of an illegal search. This was before the ruling though. The suspect in this case actually consented to a search anyway. "The officers asked for and received Gould's consent to search the home, with Gould signing a waiver of search warrant."


Quote:
Originally Posted by ttd010101
HAVING CURFEWS FOR CHILDREN IS IN NO WAY HAVING A FREE SOCIETY. AS A TOURIST I WAS ARRESTED 7 NIGHTS IN A ROW IN MICHINGAN(CLINTON TOWNSHIP) FOR BEING OUTSIDE AFTER 9(I WAS 16 AT THE TIME). I WAS WITH MY COUSIN WHO WAS 20 AND I DID HAVE MY PARENTS PERMISON TO BE WITH HIM. DID ABSOLUTLY NOTHING WRONG. WE WERE IN HIS TRUCK DRIVING HOME EACH NIGHT FROM HIS GIRLFRIENDS, AND EACH TIME B4 MIDNIGHT. EVERY TIME THE STATE POLICE STOPED US, CUFFED US AND FIRST DROVE US TO THE LOCAL "GESTAPO HOUSE", PROCCSED US THEN DROVE US HOME. IM SORRY BUT THATS TOTAL BULLSHIT. I CAN UNDERSTAND GIVING A CURFEW TO A TEEN WANNA BE TUG(THUG) WHO LOITERS AROUND IN FRONT OF KRISPY KREME OR SOME MALL AND STARTS FIGHTS...BUT TO BE TAKEN OUT OF A TRUCK, AND CUFFED AFTER NOTIFING THE PIGS OF THE SITUATION AND THAT I WAS A CANDIAN CICITZEN IS NOTHING LESS THEN BEING IN THE NEW COLOR=Blue]ND[/COLOR][/B][/U] SO FUCK YOU AND FUCK ALL THE OTHERs WHO THINK THAT THE US IS AT ALL A FREE COUNTRY AND NOT A POLICE STATE
You were arrested 7 nights in a row for being out after 9? Something sounds like complete bullshit to me here? Can you post the curfew laws for Clinton township? And we all know that the US is not at all a free country. If I burn a flag or publicly talk shit about public officials I will go down. I know this and so do all US citizens. Why do you think we all live in constant fear of the man?

btw-What happened to leaving Yahooka for good?
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Old 09-29-2004, 02:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
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OK i never said i was leaving Yahooka. Just the one thread. ...sorry for the confussion

and according to what the state pigs told us anyone under 18 is not alowed outside after 9 without his or her LEGAL guardian. My cousin was also charged for corrupting a minor. I wouldnt know what the full details were, i never went to the court hearing, never do plan on going ot the U(wish i could put a swatika here)A. according to what they told my cousin who's charges were dropped after a year and no set court date, is that i was suppose to do 50 hours of community service for each violation. i dont know the law to the word but i do know that over 130 regions of the US(counties, townships,cities) have curfews, and each region has different sets of laws. In some places you are not allowed to drive after midnight on weekend,11 on weeknights if you are under 21. ALso i know that in clinton it was against the law for anyone under 16 to go into the mall or step on to mall property without a legal guardian present. They also have a daytime curfew where anyone under 18 is not allowed to be walking the streets during school time, although i was there during christmas break so i dont know if they and how they enforce that one

anyways if u want more info on country wide curfew regions and laws check this site out http://www.curfew.org/


and all you need is ONE court rulling to set a precedent(spell???)

and sorry for the misinfo did not know that the 1976 legislation took care of that or that it existed. Patriot act2 recieved a lot of heat so the most draconian sections were split up and passed as seperate "unrelated" bills.. The patriot Act 1 would have come in either way, had 9/11 happened or not as it was originally proposed by Gore, just under a different name and with a few less sections.



im confused on this one BUt what exactly doeas ASScroft mean then , when talking to reporters when he says no i wont reinstate the constitution and bill of rights....iv gone trough the patriot acts, and neither one actually states that either the bill of rights or constituton are gone, but when you examine section for section the laws that are in the acts sound like they could only be applied to people with out rights and a constitution...someo ne help withthis one please<------------
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Old 09-29-2004, 11:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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"and all you need is ONE court rulling to set a precedent"

not if its directly unconstitutional (such as denying the 4th amendmen is).

have u ever read a supreme court ruling before? they are like modern day moral philosophy and i think if u had a firm understanding of the way the US actually worked(not a propoganda fascist regime that u seem to think it is) you would be pleasantly surprised to find the worlds single power deserves the title.
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Old 09-29-2004, 11:12 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I like how US citizens (or half of them) are willing to give up their rights for greater security. Like you guys are so unsafe! Plus it will or will not happen regardless of what the American public think. Thats whats so great about the Bush regime.
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Old 09-29-2004, 12:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal lies
If I burn a flag or publicly talk shit about public officials I will go down. I know this and so do all US citizens. Why do you think we all live in constant fear of the man?
You've just shown how we've become more of a police state. Technically flag buring is protected by the first amendment. It's called symbolic speach. But nowadays if you did it I bet you'd be arrested.

IMO we have become more of a police state than ever before. Nothing like Nazi Germany, but if we don't learn from the mistakes of the past...
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle harry
Can you post a link?
I'll try and find it, but it was a poll I saw on CNN a few months ago, I don't know if it'll be cached. If not, oh well.

Quote:
I really don't think that with every terrorist attack that a 'new patriot act' will be made until we become 'Nazi America'. If that does happen, then a lot of people including me will get very angry.
And you'll do what? Revolt? Then that's civil war.

Quote:
That's not a very smart way of going about obtaining power, which most of you should know for those that think Bush is in some huge conspiracy.
Why, it's worked in the past...

Quote:
Who thinks the Iraq war is 'the end'? That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard.
Many people don't realize that we're in for the long haul. Hell, most people thought we'd be done after Saddam fell.
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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in for the long haul....!

not, end of the world....or decline of america....
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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ahahahahaha...yup... butwho don't believe that??...google asymmetrical warfare (onlyspell it right) and come across some nice reading from the
millitary alliancecollege thinktank...they knew in dec 2003 that it would be a long haul,was allready callin anbar aloss, er drawback...occupatio n??hahahaha...yea... security forever...and forever expanding..



want the link...ill get back to ya
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron
they knew in dec 2003 that it would be a long haul
The CIA warned BushCo 2 months before the Iraq invasion that a long, potentially unwinable guerilla war was the likely outcome.
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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there's been a history of...lets say filtering of information...

toss away what doesn't suite the ends....or at least heavy editing.

like to the point of completely change meaning...

and dick cheney was 2nd in command???


hahahahahaha....fief and wolf and the rest...turned the whole security

community into thier fiefdom, yes? now they're being undermined on a daily basis..

thing is...it still doesn't matter.

the talk here is next to none...and from the stories i remember..

awefully familiar
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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J-wonder. TAKE OFF YOUR BLINDERS. GET OUT OF THE USA AND TAKE A LOOK AT IT FROM THE OUTSIDE. WITH the ACTUAL facts. NOT THE SHIT THAT HTE MEDIA FEEEDS YOU....yah yah yah i know you use the internet for iunformation but by reading your posts i can tell that you read the internet media and then varify it by listening to mainstream media. Your problem is that you like the taste of shit the government and the military/prison industrial complex feed you, so all you do is look for sources that taste the same.

YOU DONT KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE PLACE THAT YOU LIVE IN.
YOU LET THE GOVERNMENT AND MEDIA TELL LIES TO YOUR CHILDREN


no you dont know jack shit about history. you know whats been indoctrinated upon you.

IF ANYONE HERE CAN TELL ME WHO ACTUALLY DECIDES AND SETS WHAT GOES ON CURRICULUMS OF ALL THE PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEMS OF THE WEST ILL STOP TYPING IN CAPS....and no its not your government...they only sign on to it.
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttd010101
J-wonder. TAKE OFF YOUR BLINDERS. GET OUT OF THE USA AND TAKE A LOOK AT IT FROM THE OUTSIDE. WITH the ACTUAL facts. NOT THE SHIT THAT HTE MEDIA FEEEDS YOU....yah yah yah i know you use the internet for iunformation but by reading your posts i can tell that you read the internet media and then varify it by listening to mainstream media. Your problem is that you like the taste of shit the government and the military/prison industrial complex feed you, so all you do is look for sources that taste the same.

YOU DONT KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE PLACE THAT YOU LIVE IN.
YOU LET THE GOVERNMENT AND MEDIA TELL LIES TO YOUR CHILDREN


no you dont know jack shit about history. you know whats been indoctrinated upon you.

IF ANYONE HERE CAN TELL ME WHO ACTUALLY DECIDES AND SETS WHAT GOES ON CURRICULUMS OF ALL THE PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEMS OF THE WEST ILL STOP TYPING IN CAPS....and no its not your government...they only sign on to it.
gee man,

i thought that the countless volumes of supreme court rulings writen verbatim from what the individual jusitices wrote were a bit more than "indoctrination" ....

have u ever read them? do u have any idea HOW the supreme court works?

are u familiar with the term legal-rational systems?

: they are based on a general assumtion that laws will be rational and RATIONALLY EXPLAINED AND UNDERSTOOD - THIS is what gives legitimacy to government.

its hardly a US notion- John Locke, Rosseau, Smith....countless others....perhaps its a WESTERN notion that LAWS SHOULD BE RATIONALLY JUSTIFIEd....

heres the key: if u are unbiased or at least dont let your bias cloud your judgement you will see that these cases (and the laws they rescind/uphold) are based in logic.....whether you necesarrily agree with the logic is a moot point (NO ONE AGRESS WITH EVERYTHING....THATS COMMUNISM....NO ONE EVEN SHOULD AGREE ON EVERYTHING....IT WOULDNT MAKE SENSE, IT WOULD MEAN EVERYONE HAS THE SAME GOALS/DESIRES AS YOU).....

the point is that our laws are not based on arbitrary notions of fascism or as you put it "THE SHIT THAT HTE MEDIA FEEEDS YOU" ...they are based on legal-rational principles that MaKE SeNSE. and that are far more sophisticated than most undereducated people belive.

in my 7 years of post seccondary education ive had professors who were extremely liberal -to the point of even sounding like some of the lefties on here...and ive had professors who are hard line right wing....in america THERE IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH (please dont post things to "disprove" this , i will just illustrate why they are individual cases which DO NOT match the overall pattern )....why do u think im able to respond to your rants about the evil of US free democracy....because ITS ALLOWEd.

political discourse is allowed and encouraged.

and if you think its worse than before, ask yourself.

how often did u see MAINSTREAM POLITICAL PARTIES endorsing the pacifist notions of the youth during vitenam....if anything, the last few years have seen a great INCREASE in people's abilities to coordinate ala grassroots campaigns....

we havent yet moved to a 3+ party system....
and the logic of american politics do not currently support one,
but people are questioning things more than ever before....and this is the best way to eventuate change....

....tell me again how im ignorant and need to stop eating gov't rhetoric...but im just curious....when did the government last say that George Bush made a mistake by going into Iraq without the approval of the UN ? (i just did).
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j-wonder
we havent yet moved to a 3+ party system....
and the logic of american politics do not currently support one,
but people are questioning things more than ever before....and this is the best way to eventuate change....
Ahahahahahhahahahaha hhaha......First this...

Quote:

....tell me again how im ignorant and need to stop eating gov't rhetoric...
Then this. I love it.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:05 PM   #19 (permalink)
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ego through your response you illustrate and PROVE my point....

its great that people like you disagree with me...

not to be cliche but "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

people like you are proof that people are questioning things more than ever before.

now if we couple that with the fact that sometimes UNPLEASANT COMPROMISES (to some party) must be made (in the supreme court)..we begin to see how such a polarized society is not frozen into inaction.

always changing, increasing public actually being "aware" and having an opinioin (pro or con).

if each american had ONE worthwhile thing to add to the discourse( just 1).

then we'd have 280 million worthwile facts to help guide our decisions.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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JWONDER EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABOUTTHE SUPREME COURTS MIGHT BE TRUE. I WAST TALKING ABOUT THAT. NOR AM I GOING TO BOTHER READING A DOCUMENT OF THE AMERICAN UNJUST "JUSTICE" SYSTEM. IF YOU WERE TO HAVE READ MY POST I WAS TALKING ABOUT YOUR POSTS IN GENERAL. MAINSTREAM MEDIA PRISON/MILITARY COMPLEX BULL SHIT IS ALL THAT YOU KNOW. IS ALL THAT 99% PERCENT OF YOUR COUNTRY KNOWS. PERIOD.


IF ANYONE HERE CAN TELL ME WHO ACTUALLY DECIDES AND SETS WHAT GOES ON CURRICULUMS OF ALL THE PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEMS OF THE WEST ILL STOP TYPING IN CAPS....and no its not your government...they only sign on to it.


YOU AS WELL AS MOST AMERICANS, MOST PEOPLE OF WESTERN SOCIETY DONT KNOW ANYTHING EXCEPT FOR WHAT YOUV BEEN TOLD TO KNOW.
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