Originally Posted by One-Of-The-Few

hey this is to frodo derexan and the rest of the ignorant fucks

GUess what it does and the worst abuse ....yeah freedom woot. now STFU watch and read

yeah you are right they dont do it, they have the corrections guards and wardens do it and then they pormote

Derexan you do realizse now that you have to go take out bush and bush and all those americans responsible for this...becasue you justified taking out saddam and his government for some of the same reasons. get going , you have a job to do, one that can actualy be justified.

Originally Posted by Parallax

i wanked while taking a shit once

Originally Posted by Parallax

i wanked while taking a shit once

Originally Posted by One-Of-The-Few

except that the video proves it. Watch it. Enjoy. you loose everytime you open your mouth. YOur idea of reality is skewed as you have nothing but hte inforemation passed onto you by the media and government. LEAVE AMERICA TRAVEL THE WORLD SEE THE NEWS ON AMERICA COMING OUT OF THOSE COUNTRIES.NOT BIASED JUST FACTUAL.

Originally Posted by Lord_Frodo

Even if you could prove that this is common practice, you can't prove that it's government policy - because it's not. Thanks, you lose.

Originally Posted by Stan Goff

In 1971, Stanford University Professor of Psychology Phillip Zimbardo designed an experiment that would come to be known as the Stanford Prison Experiment. Subjects were recruited and paid a modest stipend, whereupon they were separated into “prisoners” and “guards,” and placed in a mock prison built in a Stanford basement. The prisoners were stripped, deloused, shackled, and placed in prison clothes, while the guards were given authoritative uniforms, sunglasses, and batons. Long story short – within two days there was a near prison riot, psychosomatic illness began to break out, white middle-class kids in the role of guards became rapidly and progressively more sadistic and arbitrary, and the two-week experiment had to be abandoned after only six days… before someone was badly hurt or killed.

The experiment seemed to support the truism that “absolute power corrupts absolutely.” But that conclusion serves as a description, not an explanation. It describes what happens to the individual, but it fails to account for the role of rationalization that legitimates the domination, and it completely fails to account for institutional support of that domination.

When one uses the term “systemic,” she is saying that the source of this abuse is not individual moral failure, but a predictable expression of the system and its structures.

The abuses of detainees, by US troops, by CACI International and Titan Corporation mercenaries, and by the CIA in Iraq, was “systemic.”


...


We are being asked to believe that:

(1) The only abuse that occurred against anyone detained by American forces in Iraq was photographed and reported.

(2) No abuses occurred anywhere that were not photographed or reported.

(3) The one percent of US troops who are the “bad apples” all happen to serve together in the same unit… the unit that is the only one guilty, and that happened to get caught because of the photographs.

(4) The aggressive investigation now being proclaimed by everyone from George W. Bush to CENTCOM, about abuses that were already on record in the military (an internal investigation had already been launched in February by Major General Antonio M. Taguba, but was kept from the public), would have happened had the photographs and story not been aired on national television.

(5) The military was not attempting to cover up their own investigation, and that they would have informed the public of these abuses even had Seymour Hersh not put the whole miserable episode into print.

(6) The military did not cover anything up in the two weeks between the time CBS warned them that they were going to air an expose and when they actually did air it.

(7) No one in the chain of command above Brigadier General Janis Karpinski is responsible for the failure to halt these abuses, even though Lieutenant General Ricardo S. Sanchez was informed of the investigation of these abuses, complete with sworn statements and photographs, by General Taguba last February.


Other abuses and violations of the Geneva Conventions and Laws of Warfare are already on record, some with videos available on the web, such as:

(1) Shooting people who are clearly not armed and who are engaged in no threatening behavior.

(2) Shooting into ambulances.

(3) Shooting wounded people who are not armed.

(4) Shooting wounded people who are obviously no longer capable of fighting.

(5) Shooting into crowds.

There has never been a Stanford Military Occupation Experiment to complement the Stanford Prison Experiment, unless we just count the military occupations themselves. There is a structured, systemic antagonism between an occupying military and the people whose land they occupy. And there will be no investigations of any of it, because there never are, unless and until the American public is confronted with them.

The National Command Authority and its cheerleaders cannot say out loud… this is what we are doing, and it can’t get done unless we dehumanize the occupied. This reality, this system, will express itself in the thoughts and emotions of you, the troops who carry it out, because this military occupation is in a sense making a prison of Iraq and making you, the troops, its turnkeys.

It will only be those exceptional individuals in the military who refuse to surrender their humanity – no matter how little they may understand the big picture – and who will witness. Those who do break with the system and witness are very important people, important to history, because their refusal to surrender your own moral integrity to the system may lead to our collective salvation by ending this felonious occupation. The troops who filed reports about the abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison were such exceptions.

So were Tom Glen and Ron Ridenhour.

What these images of the Abu Ghraib humiliation and torture have done in the United States is collide with the “exalted image and the pseudo-event” of the Bush propaganda apparatus, just as the images of the My Lai massacre did in 1969. That collision between the reality and the real image of war startles civilians here in the La-La Land of wide screen TV and suburban SUV’s, and it shakes them out of their opiated shopper dream-state.

Originally Posted by Stan Goff

The State of Pennsylvania convicted Nicholas Yarris of rape and murder in 1981. Yarris was sentenced to die, but in 2003 – thankfully, after an appeals process had kept him off the execution table – DNA evidence was presented in the face of relentless opposition by the state that exonerated Yarris. Yarris was then released from Greene State Correctional Institution’s death row.

His story was a local scandal, but it quickly faded. What brought Yarris back into the limelight was his recollection of a prison guard at Greene State, named Charles Graner, Jr. If that name rings a bell, it is not ringing from Pennsylvania, but from Iraq.

Graner is one of the tiny handful of prison guards who have been indicted in the Abu Ghraib scandal, where as Specialist Graner – US Army Reserve – he was photographed grinning over the torture and humiliation of Iraqi detainees, most of whom were rounded up randomly on US military sweeps.

“I was just sickened by it because I know what he used to do. And I can only imagine without the restraint of any supervision over there, what he was doing,” Yarris told an interviewer in May. (Cable Network News, story at http://www.november.org/stayinfo/bre...buGharaib.html )

Yarris, who knew Graner for five years, said that there was nothing surprising about either Graner’s behavior or that of the other guards… at least not to anyone familiar with prison life in the United States.

“Charles was just filled with the glee of opportunity to go over there. Because he said as we were walking down the corridor, ‘I can’t wait to go kill some sand niggers,’” reported Yarris.

Yarris recalled how Graner would smile just as he had in the imfamous photos when guards spit in prisoners’ trays, how he would gratuitously humiliate prisoners during strip searches, and how he used to provoke prisoners into a rage for his own entertainment. As a matter of public record, Graner was accused of beating prisoners at Greene State and even of concealing razor blades in their food, though – as is almost always the case in all US prisons – he was exonerated of all charges.

While many will be quick to (rightly) indict Graner for his sexual sadism, it is also important to understand the institutional and systemic dynamics of prison to begin talking about what prisons are and where we are headed in terms of social control in the future.

I cannot help but refer back to the Stanford Prison Experiment here, but while this explains the subjective experience of prison, for both prisoners and guards, it sheds little light on the structural reasons for the cancerous growth of prisons in the US, for the expanded use of mass detentions as part of US military doctrine post-9/11, or the historical tendencies behind the latter-day expansion of prisons in conjunction with the massive militarization of US domestic police forces.

We have all heard about the alleged propensity of the Chinese to use incarceration as a means of social control.

But studies show that China has 1.51 million inmates with a gross population of 1.3 billion. The United States now has 2.03 million behind bars, which translates into 701 people out of every 100,000 in the US, while China is locking folks up at a measly rate of 117 per 100,000. The second highest rate is in Russia, at 606 per 100,000, and that is in the wake of a history of draconian barracks-socialism, followed by gangster-capitalism. George W. Bush keeps telling everyone that “terrorists” hate us because they “hate freedom.” If that were the case, using prison figures, these same freedom haters should be casting confetti over us.

We have not only 2.03 million locked up, but an additional 5 million under the supervision of the criminal justice system, that is, on probation or parole.

We should be asking the question why. Statistics don’t show crime rates rising, and in fact our crime rates are in some cases lower than countries with far lower rates of incarceration. The answers are hidden inside the general numbers and in history.

It is important to point out that all credible research indicates that the experience of prison renders an inmate more likely, not less likely, to commit more and more serious crimes. So we are not incarcerating to rehabilitate or to protect the public. The ex-convict is far more dangerous than the first offender who does not serve time. Research also indicates that it would cost less to educate than incarcerate young people, so there is no cost-benefit to society. If we are to understand the social rationale for prison, we first have to discard these intuitive answers and hypothesize other ones in their stead. Most social scientists who are outside the gravitational pull of officialdom posit three things: profit, population control, and surveillance.

These are also the motives that lie behind the systemic integration of domestic police doctrine and the developing doctrine of the US military overseas.

I need to point out before going any further that “motives” are not synonymous with some vast, totalizing conspiracy, but that they develop in response to contingencies. This is a point that – when confused – gets lost in a false dichotomy of conspiracy/system.

History is not engineered. It is a process – as Ian Malcom would tell us – that is in some sense deterministic even as it is paradoxically unpredictable. But it is being determined by long term secular trends that are both inertial and beyond the control of any individual, or institution for that matter.

Originally Posted by Lord_Frodo

Even if you could prove that this is common practice, you can't prove that it's government policy - because it's not. Thanks, you lose.

Originally Posted by Waves

I dont think Frodo understands what you're trying to tell him.

Originally Posted by Lord_Frodo

Just sick of arguing with people like OOTF who are so mired in their psychosis that they can no longer think clearly. Pitfall's insane, OOTF is angry and insane, you and Ego are just misguided because you let the bullshit get to you.

Anyway, you're all going on my ignore list, and it's unlikely you'll hear from me again after this post. Peace, and have fun creating your own twisted reality from random internet websites.

Originally Posted by Parallax

i wanked while taking a shit once