seaflo

I have problems keeping cool. I have to control heat and power consumption; next all solar & wind powered grows. Also need to do more research on LEDs. Thanks Stoneric & Capt Cannabis & all who view or comment.

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Thepizzaguy

Fem Seeds sounds like a great idea but, I think they are better for the seller rather than the buyer. For the seller they offer a higher resale value, more profit. For the Buyer, we're looking at convenience of not getting males. I've never bought fem seeds, and used to think it might be worth an investment as a buyer. But after buying, breeding and growing standard seeds, fem seeds will only hold back the buyer.

With fem seeds, the buyer grows out their 10 pack get 7 females and three seeds that just didn't germinate. The buyer, now grower grows them out, harvests a 1/2 pound. He now has to make another purchase because he's out of seeds. A more experienced gardener may make some clones and manage 2-3 harvests from the same investment. Eventually, the buyer, now grower, is out of seeds and clones and has to make another purchase.

The buyer of standard seeds should have a different set of goals. This guy should have the goal and expectation of getting 1 female and 1 male. The goal is to mate the male and female and produce a batch of seeds. If done successfully, the buyer's investment returns 2-3 hundred seeds saving the need to make a new purchase every time he wants to grow out some Cannabis Cup Winner.

The heavy dope to produce seedless buds further holds back the medical grower or personal use specialist. He's now buying seeds and removing all the males and has to make a seed buy every time he wants to grow some buds. By removing the males and refusing to let reproduction occur, the buyer of standard seeds is cutting down the potential harvest(s) of the store bought seeds.

While my examples are for the newish growers, they stand up to the results of the average grower. If you are going to invest in seeds, either standard or female, it's in the buyer's interest to get the most out of his or her purchase by reproducing more seeds for the first run of any breeder pack.

Female Seeds is just not worth the investment for most people.

farmergiles

Haha mega posts Koshiva.

Good skunkiness is probably a survival trait. Nomadic humans would choose the best weed to harvest and carry round with them thereby spreading the most desirable strains just by discarding the seeds.

I`ve wondered about the possibility of cryogenics and clones. Keeping the keepers for keeps.

Frankenstein? No more so than garden apples like you said.

Mind you I suppose nature has taken care of all this neatly and inexpensively with the normal method of seed propagation.

I wouldn`t be surprised if you froze a hundred seeds and kept them frozen you`d get a fair few that would germ a hundred years later.

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Cerebro

the liquid within the seed expands and bursts cells, but not all seeds would contain as much moisture, so? I dont know.
What we should be focusing our scientific brains on is developing/genetically engineering an apple that has high thc in the fruit. That would be good stealth.

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seaflo

I would hope we can just leave mother nature to do the bio engineering and change the governments perception of cannabis. It is just in the last 80 years that it has become the evil weed. Before that it was widely known for its medicinal uses. I am growing more and more skeptical about man's ability, yet alone right, to alter things to his own benefit. I want what everyone else wants, the very best. But at some point we have to consider the question of not questioning the natural development of species.
So I guess I will have to keep fucking with having males to deal with. My 2p.

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stoneric

So are we fem seed users going to be ostracized?

Cerebro

You're already ostrasized for smoking; no need to push you further away mate.

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Dandaweedman

Nopers. No chance of that.
Feminized have thier place and you are proof of that. Heck we still chat with people who grow lowryder

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Cerebro

lmao

it's true, even they.

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farmergiles

I accidentally knocked the temperature control on the fridge once. Froze my seeds stash box (not very hard, probably only about -1 or -2 celcius). I noticed and thawed everything out. The seeds still germed.

I`m sure freezing would kill a few but there`s plenty of strains that grow in places where it gets mighty cold in winter. For sure a lot of seeds would be insulated by fallen leaf matter and stuff but I think cannabis seeds are pretty durable.

THC apples? Hows about THC grapefruit? That would be best to combat dry mouth .

Yep, all this messing around with clones and feminization isn`t doing cannabis breeding any favours. But that is largely due to prohibition IMO, the clandestine reproduction of cannabis sativa in (most of) Europe and the USA doesn`t lend itself to large scale breeding ops or to transparency of breeding techniques being employed.

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Peace seeker

:d

mothernature

This is not quite on topic, but I just gotta respond....

koshiva, you said this about clones,
"eventually lose genetic material or other wise weaken and lose vitalility through age"

I was originally going to use the Dwarf Alberta Spruce as my example. That plant was discovered in 1904 and every one of those plants in the landscape today are clones off the original one. No sign of weakening or lose of vitality.

The following is a much better example,

"Determining that King’s holly is indeed the oldest living plant reads like a detective story. In 1937, an odd-ball hermit, bushman, miner, scientific collector, and generally neat guy, named Deny King discovered the plant while mining tin by hand in the remote southwest of Tasmania. The plant was named in King’s honor.

Tasmania’s best botanist, Winifred Curtis, described the plant in 1967 and had a hunch it was old. Scientists searched hard for other individuals but didn’t find any.

The sole remaining individual straggles out in a line of 500 clone bushes, nearly a mile long (1.2 km). It reproduces itself by dropping branch pieces that take root. In the cold wet gloom of Tasmanian gullies, such propagation is slow. The shiny-leaf plant bears pink flowers but neither fruit nor seeds. It can only reproduce itself by cloning genetically identical bushes.

The plant has no choice. It must produce clones instead of seed since it has three sets of chromosomes (a triploid) instead of the normal two and is, therefore, sterile. When an old bush falls down, the individual lives on through its clones.

Investigators found fossil leaf fragments identical to the living bush 5.3 miles (8.5 km) away. University of Tasmania scientists carbon dated the fossils as 43,600 years old. The fossil cell structure and shape are the same as the living plant’s, which can only mean the ancient plant was triploid also.

Moreover, triploidy is so rare that it’s unlikely the trait occurred twice in the same species. Thus, the fossil remnants came from the same individual as the plant living now. Over 43,000 years ago (about the time Homo sapiens displaced Neanderthal man), the ancient Tasmanian shrub suckered new shrubs that eventually suckered the oldest living plant."

I have to throw this in as well,

As long as plant breeders are breeding for one thing and nothing else (the buzz factor), then that is all they will get. If you want vigorous, resistant plants, breed for those qualities as well.

Dandaweedman

Kind of an apples to oranges thing this is.
The tasmanian thing makes clones naturally and the trees can be raised in large enough numbers to assure the future.
When sticking to clones and at a normal indoor growers numbers game there is a large chance that disease and pestilence (do I sound biblish? ) will take it's toll and the clone you have will lose potency and vigor. And as I well know a small clone stock is so easily lost to a disease that would not have near as much chance of large kills if it were outdoors.

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Dandaweedman

Wow, gotta read that in a bit, need my reading attitude . I will say this...
Seeds drop off the plants and freeze before the next years growth all the time, canna included.
Cmon people, you think nature would screw up? LOL They just have to be dry.

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seaflo

Stoneric, thanks and you nor anyone else I speak with will ever be criticized for using fems, I am also doing it. My point is that, while doing my other research I find that there is a storm of controversy brewing all over the world regarding bio-engineering. I grew up on a ranch and farm and have been taught that using what nature provides is the best way and it is our responsibility cherish that gift. As a consumer I have found that food grown via bio-engineering methods are inferior to naturally produced foods, especially organically grown produce. As I get older the issue of only putting things in my family's and my body have to be the best possible. As I travel I have experienced, first-hand, that naturally grown foods just taste better than those produced through bio-engineering (America's food found in most of its' grocery stores is non-consumable to me; too many unnatural products used in its' production). I guess this ideology has permeated my love for the cannabis plant as well. I applaud those for striving to make things better. Without them there is little progress. But I have seen progress run the earth into a sad condition. Next I am going to be getting rid, as soon as they are consumed, of all my non-organic nutes and additives. There is a growing contingency of growers that only use natural products produced through making teas, to provide the nutes necessary for growth; my next task. So Stoneric, there is no way I will ever lay criticism upon anyone wanting to make their plants better. I am just trying an alternative method. I started this thread not knowing much about femming and I still feel I do not know that much, even after over a 100 hours of research. My 2p.

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mothernature

Wow...
I'm getting overwhelmed....
but I'm loving it....
gets the little gray cells working again....
thank you, thank you, thank you.

Ok,

Dan, I think I maybe wasn't clear in what I was trying to say. The Tasmanian bush just happened to have the characteristics to enable itself to clone itself. After 46,000 years, it had not lost the ability to survive. The fact that it is a triploid may have something to do with that, I don't know.
I do tend to equate survival with vigor, but as I think on it more, they don't necessarily have to go hand in hand.

Playing my own devil's advocate, I will say that, just because it survived that long does not mean that DNA degradation or mutations have not taken place. Just not in the areas that allow the bush to survive.

As far as canna goes, I would like to think that as an individual became more experienced, there would be no more disease and pestilence to deal with (I mean for the indoor grower). Maybe that is too idealistic. When growing outside, the real Mother Nature takes care of most things. The best an indoor grower can do is to mimic her, and she's a hard act to follow.

And yep, if you can grow apples, you can grow oranges.

Dan, you have so much grow knowledge. I just love talking to you.