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The Gene Pool Strain and Seedbank Discussion - Grown a killer strain? Been conned by a seedbank? Had good service from a seedbank? Want to breed your own strain? All things strain and seedbank related should be posted here.

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Old 07-10-2013, 03:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Sea of Green

My first sea of green. 33 plants. A mix of high grade seeds. Durban poison, skunk #1, early California, ak 47, sour diesel, and my personal strain that I have worked on for 3 years now... Powerhouse Purple.

I predict a 15-20 pound harvest.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Oh em gee.... Fucking outstanding... You are one sexy bitch. I am assuming you sell most of that?
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Your assumptions are fairly accurate...

I love growing cannabis! I want to be a master grower/breeder!
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Those are some sexy pictures FH!!! Could you tell us more about your strain?

Also when the time comes I trim for cheap.

Thanks for posting your babies!
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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^With that crop he might have to hire some illegals.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Good show!

Normally SOG refers to a system where plants are put into flowering in waves so that there is a steady cyclical harvest every fortnight or so.

This is normally carried out indoors though it could be done outdoors close to the equator, or by tarping in the summer in other latitudes.

So I'm not sure what it should be called. LOG (lots of green)? YOG (yard of green)? SLOG (shit loads of green)?

Hope the Powerhouse Purple does what you want it to, what is the ancestry?
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by adventure View Post
I am assuming you sell most of that?
I assume that that is for percy and that no sales of any kind are taking place.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Good show!

Normally SOG refers to a system where plants are put into flowering in waves so that there is a steady cyclical harvest every fortnight or so.

This is normally carried out indoors though it could be done outdoors close to the equator, or by tarping in the summer in other latitudes.

So I'm not sure what it should be called. LOG (lots of green)? YOG (yard of green)? SLOG (shit loads of green)?

Hope the Powerhouse Purple does what you want it to, what is the ancestry?

Really? I thought SOG is a farming method that helps produce more THC. If I recall correctly, when large amounts of females are grown in a small area, they produce more THC because they sense they must compete with each other for any possible pollen. This is something I read online somewhere...

Powerhouse Purple comes from Purple Power+unknown indica male. This plant has shown great phenos. It has a large sativa structure, heavy yielding (16 to 20 ounces), responds great to topping, stony smoke, dense buds, purple hues in every other plant, great pest resistance, great root system, doesn't stink when flowering..... The only thing lacking is the taste! Im still struggling with this.

I just recently crossed a powerhouse purple male with a super lemon haze. I ONLY GOT 2 SEEDS! I will be very careful with these two seedlings. I want to harness the aroma of the silver haze...
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I wish we were neighbors!
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Old 07-13-2013, 04:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer's Hat View Post
Really? I thought SOG is a farming method that helps produce more THC. If I recall correctly, when large amounts of females are grown in a small area, they produce more THC because they sense they must compete with each other for any possible pollen.
As far as I know this is seldom the case. If female plants are crowded together, their strategy to reproduce may be to make male flowers, not to make extra female flowers.

Some strains can be stressed if not enough light reaches the lower leaves and buds.

Your plants don't look too crowded in the pics, though you might find you would yield more with the same number spread out more.

The theory behind SOG is to grow lots of small plants in waves so there is a steady harvest from clones with minimal veg time. It is one of those terms, like supercropping, which tends to be used in a vague manner.
Though at the end of the grow it doesn't matter how the method is described as long as the results are good.

Quote:
Powerhouse Purple comes from Purple Power+unknown indica male. This plant has shown great phenos. It has a large sativa structure, heavy yielding (16 to 20 ounces), responds great to topping, stony smoke, dense buds, purple hues in every other plant, great pest resistance, great root system, doesn't stink when flowering..... The only thing lacking is the taste! Im still struggling with this.

I just recently crossed a powerhouse purple male with a super lemon haze. I ONLY GOT 2 SEEDS! I will be very careful with these two seedlings. I want to harness the aroma of the silver haze...
Taste and aroma are pretty closely related so you may struggle to achieve great taste with limited aroma in flower.

Purple power is haze x skunk? Super lemon haze is (some skunk or other) x ((hazexnorthern lights)x(hazexSK1) so crossed with Hz x SK you are doubling or trebling up a lot of things.
Which may give unpredictable results in the long run.

But then again a good plant crossed with another good plant is not a bad place to start from in any case.

I would consider super silver haze or some other even more hazey plant to cross the PP with perhaps, if you can do the longer flowering times. If you make seeds and select the progeny the flowering times can be kept down.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:


Taste and aroma are pretty closely related so you may struggle to achieve great taste with limited aroma in flower.

Are you implying that the more aroma the better the taste?

What about nutes? And the curing process?
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I understand that the genes will get all screwy the more I tamper with them. I am confident that I will produce a strain that will match the name... Powerhouse Purple.
I want to breed an outstanding purple heavy yielding outdoor strain.
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer's Hat View Post
Are you implying that the more aroma the better the taste?

What about nutes? And the curing process?
Not necessarily better, but the smells and the tastes are closely related. Sometimes the smell and taste will be very similar, other times it will not translate exactly. But the smell is certainly an indicator as to the taste.

Nutes, curing and so on if done properly will certainly improve taste but only up to a point.
You can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear. If you have a plant whose buds naturally taste of burnt tires they will taste of burnt tires no matter how you look after it- the basic taste will be the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer's Hat View Post
I understand that the genes will get all screwy the more I tamper with them. I am confident that I will produce a strain that will match the name... Powerhouse Purple.
I want to breed an outstanding purple heavy yielding outdoor strain.
As far as breeding goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat, lol.
One thing though, is that the degree of relatedness (homogeneity) of the parents will have an effect on the consistency, and possibly the vigour, of the offspring.

So if I have parent plants from the same in bred line or from a landrace they should have very similar genes. The offspring should be very similar to the parents.
Vigour may be lacking though, as a result of inbreeding.


If I start off with two different IBL or landrace parents then the offspring would be termed F1's. The offspring should all be similar to each other but not necessarily similar to either parent. Of course it would be no surprise to see recognisable traits from either or both parents but the combination may result in something different to either. Or one parent may dominate.
It is likely that the F1 offspring would have more vigour than either parent, this is known as hybrid vigour.

Now if I take 2 of the F1 offspring and cross them, the next generation are known as F2's. The F2 offspring may differ substantially from each other and recessive traits may be expressed which were not expressed by the F1s or by the original parents.
The same can apply as to further F3, F4, and so on, generations.
But depending on which selections are made they might be stabilised, by choosing only plants with the desired traits and testing their offspring (progeny testing) so as to uncover recessive traits.
However as this selection goes on the offspring tend to become inbred and thus lose vigour.
One way that breeders avoid this lack of vigour is to breed parallel lines from the same parents, keeping the lines separate after the initial cross. Then crossing the lines at the end to produce (hopefully) offspring with the desired traits and vigour.
The theory of line breeding cannabis is basically the same as that for dogs or horses.


If you start off with two vaguely similar hybrids such as say purple power and super lemon haze, then the offspring will likely behave something like the F2's in the example above. The more times similar hybridisation has been made in the parents the less likely the results will be predictable and also they may not have hybrid vigour. The only way to know for sure is by trying.
By selecting offspring with traits you like and progeny testing you can breed a stable line but the results are not as predictable and there is likely more work than if you started off with with 2 separate true breeding lines.
IBL's and landraces are not that easy to come by, because the seed buying public (whether they realise it or not) generally want predictable traits in the offspring and as much vigour as possible. This is most easily produced by way of the breeder making F1's.


Generally the higher the numbers and the better at growing, selecting and testing the breeder is, the higher the chances of a good outcome in time.


TLDR- Having said all of that, there is nothing wrong with getting any two good plants and crossing them. This is known as pollen chucking.

There are some links and reading suggestions in the FAQs. There is no definitive text on cannabis breeding, the clandestine nature of the biz has resulted in a lot of misinformation.
There are a lot of other methods which I haven't mentioned here.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thank you for the info. The idea of keeping two lines separate sounds practical. I do label and keep track of the seeds. As far as my strain goes, I have a collection of f1 and f2. My next step was to cross an f1 with an f2. Would this produce an f3? If so, I would then cross an f3 female with an f1 male. My theory is that the gap between the f1and f3would help prevent loss of vigor due to inbreeding.

With this f4 I will split the line and gradually work the lemon haze genes into the strain. Once I have a plant from both lines that is close to what I want, then I will cross those two plants and create an f1.


What other methods do you know of?
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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For real tho holy moley
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer's Hat View Post
Thank you for the info. The idea of keeping two lines separate sounds practical. I do label and keep track of the seeds. As far as my strain goes, I have a collection of f1 and f2. My next step was to cross an f1 with an f2. Would this produce an f3? If so, I would then cross an f3 female with an f1 male. My theory is that the gap between the f1and f3would help prevent loss of vigor due to inbreeding.

With this f4 I will split the line and gradually work the lemon haze genes into the strain. Once I have a plant from both lines that is close to what I want, then I will cross those two plants and create an f1.


What other methods do you know of?
Good that you are labelling your seeds with the parentage. This is essential to a breeding project.

I wouldn't worry about lack of vigour until it occurs. For now you want to lock down desirable traits.

Try to be clear about your goals and how you intend to achieve them. Then even if it doesn't work out you can hopefully learn from what goes wrong.

2 seeds from the PP x SLH cross is not many. Really you want at least 10 to have some idea what the genes contain.
You could be unlucky and get two rubbish plants that don't express the potential of the cross.
Or you could get two plants which perform great but have recessive hermi genes or some such horror which will, unbeknownst to you, contaminate your breeding project.
If you have a good grip of seeds to grow out from a cross then you will be much better informed and increase the chances of finding excellent plants.

There are loads of breeding techs but first of all I'd make sure you thoroughly understand Mendelian inheritance and punnet squares. These are the basic tools.

Also be aware that Mendelian inheritance does not explain everything about breeding, so any way of understanding the genes is good.
I try to look at things from the plants' perspectives and empathise with their needs and goals as well as my own.
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Old 08-01-2013, 02:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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These ladies are getting tall...
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Old 08-01-2013, 02:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Wow looks great man!!!
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Looking good.
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Old 08-01-2013, 06:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Gorgeous pictures. And FG... have you ever considered writing down what you know about cannabis breeding? Could be the next big thing.
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