SageTree

I certainly don't mean to 'zap' FB and certainly isn't the tone or intention.... I didn't completely disagree with him, just on the 'meds' point... and that wasn't even a disagreement... I wanted to add balance to the comments about 'pills/meds' and share my own story.

In other words, I felt it was unfair to 'zap' options on his account too.

Follow my line of thinking?


I am advocating talking to someone FIRST... specifically a counselor. Because often times when we're stuck, a simple mediator between us and our thoughts does the trick. When I went to counseling I was not on meds at all.


I gave FB lots of un'zap'ped freedom to openly express himself... I was never trying to shoot him down...

And again... my point was to fight sigmas about mental health over all because not that fb did, but I see lots of people trashing counselors and psychiatrists.... the prior of which my Wife's professional life resides.



I understand what you are talking about ~1~, I'm not dummy and know that far too often Meds are the first step... however, to be fair... a lot people just go to their GP instead of a more specific mental health expert, a counselor... whom, if they feel the need or would benefit by and the patient agrees, will THEN be referred to talk to a Psychiatrist for meds and their review appointments... ALL the while, still seeing the Counselor.

GPs are the people who are to blame for the over medication of folks, imo... not as much other mental health professionals......

But again... believe me.. I understand what you are saying.

I'm also saying that meds aren't a life sentence if they are used as a tool and not the means for getting healthy....

I've heard lots of people saying, 'I wish I could just get a pill for this', And I think that IS sad that THAT is what people feel mental health means....

Like all health, it's a process not a 'get out of jail free' card when you take meds.



I don't really feel that it's fair to say 'us' and 'them' and to assume 'they' don't take or make things from nature to help calm the nerves or have doctors to help people live healthy lives. That certainly seems incorrect to my understanding of 'bush' culture.

And on that note.... 'We' are the ones living, imo, a far cry from out natural state. So mortality and such are looked upon differently with the Western mind, generally speaking.

I'm sorry for your friends being victims of an industry.... I hope that with the aid of a professional who is specialized in counseling or psychology, that they can talk through and process the things that are effecting them rather than wash it away with meds...

Because it takes a lot of meds to kill the pain... mental and physical...

Talking it out, isn't easy, but it's more holistic...

And THAT way of healing seems to be what you are touching on with your 'bush' theory.

Does that change the tone of what I said a little for ya', but cause I have no intention of a double irony of 'zapping' someones 'zap'

In kind
SageTree

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SageTree

In the several times I went to see a counselor for anger issues one thing I took away was not to trick myself into being more disgruntled than I actually needed to be.

The low level anger-frustration is where we trick ourselves into believing the world really is a way that it's not... or not completely, to be more correct.

That thing was that negative generalizations can make it easy to be pessimistic and lose hope, thus becomes a way of seeing life.

For me, Life is easier when I understand we all have different experiences and that there are most certainly good people out there.

As I read it, most things in life are both rather than either/or.

That is... it's usually a shade of colour, not black and white.


So thanks for reminding me of something cool I learned in counseling.

Lord knows I have to practice it, but a couple of years ago, I remember the night and the talk, when I literally went from half empty to half full.... And I've never looked back at it as a logical way of thinking, for me, again.

Cheers.

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mothernature

great posts Sage

Roach

dudes been to posting college.




These threads sometimes are like me trying to color inside the lines when I was three.

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לזיין את הקופים

SageTree

Thanks you two. I only hope to be clear and not be perceived as judgmental in those.


@Roach: I've got BS from somewhere That's for damned sure.

But don't worry about the lines man....
I don't take it you've fallen into to many of them in your trips around the sun
An by this stage of the game I think your a bonifide art-teest

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fenderbender

ahhhh IVE BEEN ZAPPED! noooooo



lol
i completely understand where you are coming from sage, but them being a logical possible sollution for Cerpins problem? not at all.

Re-reading it out he wasnt exactly pushing SSRIs, but as you can see i didnt even quote him or remember his name, let alone scroll up to re-read the post lol soooooooo my bad.

I just found it fucked up and hilarious at the same time, that cerpin lays out a problem that is affecting him, and effects a huge portion of young people today in the world, and the second post down is tellin him to see a doc and praising SSRIs.



While im sure those meds do some good at times, i believe the harm they do is on a far greater level. I also believe they are needlessly pushed FAR more then they are given out when actually needed, annnnd i also believe it is a completely corrupt money making market that needs to end.

Therefor i think it is much more fair in my generalization that he is a pill pushing zombie then Your generalizing that i demonize medications and psychiatrists and whatnot.

Do you deny that that is a huge problem within our society? The corruption of pharmacutical corps and the ignorant people that buy into it?
I doubt you deny this. Im not really asking you this question lol im just sayin...


Now i got no beef im just sayin...
I dont even have a problem with the ignorant zombie poster #2, he is just a poor lost soul.

and again my bad for jumpin on him when he wasnt actually pushing ssris just stating they worked for him.


and lol at me being everything that was wrong with society. shiiiit i wish.

__________________
Imagine there's no heaven,It's easy if you try

<3

SageTree

Werd man, first off, thanks for hearing me out.
Secondly, I'm not saying it's THE path to take, but I don't want to assume I know every about his situation, and didn't want an option squashed. He could be seriously suffering from capital "D" Depression... and that is a need to something, and my two cents was that it did help me through it, although I know now what it looks like etc... and can deal with in differently.

It's fair enough to assume that talking to some one would help him.

(sorry to talk like you aren't reading this Cerpin)

I'll give you that... it IS a funny two liner. Sincere or other wise, it was a little short to just shout 'meds' ...

Thanks for laying that out for me

I agree, but might add that the wrong types of meds are pushed, if they are need at all..

There are different kinds and for different needs.

There isn't a blanket for all people, that's for sure.

I do think that meds are prescribed by GPs for many people and then not really watched properly, which is why I cite the counselor/psychiatrist. They are a healthy part of using meds as a tool for a short time, or not really needing them at all.

I re-read that, and am not sure I said you were the demonizer... I think I took care of that myself with the GP talk

But I see where you could have picked that up, my apologies...

You didn't specifically address mental health professionals in any way.
I emphasized too harshly who you figured was giving them out. Since most scipts come from GPs I just assumed you figure that is who gave them out most often too.

I feel that GP ought to refer to counseling not just write a script for meds, and in that regard I think that is how A LOT of people get them. I DO think GP give them out MUCH too often to reiterate.

I can't deny that... in a later post down ,but rather up , the page now, I jest about how people think of meds as a 'get out of jail free card'.....

And in course, have NO work to do...

Basically I agree with the question you just presented. I'll answer anyways

Well... thanks for the reply again... hope mine was okay too.
I really think you should read what I wrote in the thread above this, I explain myself a little more clearly I think.

I wasn't trying to jump you, as much as add perspective, sorry if I made any example of you or you feel that way. Sorry. MY bad.

And lastly... I concur... If that was the ONLY problem we had, Thank God,
we'd be so lucky....


Thanks again so much for talking that out, so I could better understand what you meant... I apologize if I was overly critical or harsh in some places. Thanks for seeing my passion and talking to me instead of thwarting me to the ground or writing me off.

This talk has added GREAT balance to the thread, I thank you.

Love
SageTree

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fenderbender

lol sage its all good brudda.

i also just want to add that you are clearly putting more thought into this then i did lol.
Basically stop appologizing cause it is unneccasary. lol


and also, i have been generalzing like a motherfucker..just sayin.

i just have a problem with everyone i know being on these antidepressants when they SHOULDNT BE ON THEM.
I know thats just my opinion but seriously now...


Medications that fuck with your brain chemistry should be the LAST resort, not the first.



but hey its easy as fuck to take a pill, and it is quite hard to actually fix the problem...

fuck it lets all just take the easy way out.

The zombie apocalypse is coming guys, its just a different zombie then what we think.

__________________
Imagine there's no heaven,It's easy if you try

<3

SageTree

Werd fb... I just don't like to let it loom in the air, checking 100% so thanks for the 'All clear'

You stated everything very fenderish and I lol'd (like a motherfucker). Thanks for that.

I agree they shouldn't be first line answers in most cases... to generalize.

And they do tweak chems in the brain... but that is pretty much what our brain does... including all the God knows what we've eaten, snorted and put into our body to fix ourselves or have an adventure....

I think we can agree on responsible use of chemicals in the body, from the sounds of it?

Under all this I feel the heart man.... you just want what is best for people, to help them be the happiest and healthiest in the least harmful way.

That is admirable.

Cheers, I knew you were a lover and not a fighter

SageTree

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Cerpin Taxt

This mindset is starting to look almost alien to me, and although I'll attribute much of this to the cyclical nature of the goings on in life, I'll attribute much more to how I've changed the way I perceive my 'life' and who I am.

I'm glad to report that I am going back to school in the fall for a post-graduate course in Human Resources (I feel it compliments my Psych degree well), and I have a full time job starting on Monday. Normally, these things alone would give me the idea of having direction, knowing that I am 'going somewhere'... but it's something else which has really given me a fresh outlook. I still don't know the entire scope of what this means for me, but I've had enough of a glimpse to know it's what I need.

These last 7 months outside of any structure which gave me the illusion of direction, had left me with nothing more than a pattern of thinking I've cultivated over many years. My creation of this thread alone was the result of it nearing its boiling point; 3 major panic attacks in 2 months (having only 1, as a result of drugs, in my entire life) constant anxiety, and a growing depression (I think I cried more in the last 3 months than I have in the last 10 years)... What was this pattern of thinking?

I started a thread asking this ^ very question 5 years ago, and despite all of the thinking I'd done regarding it since then, I never really escaped that mindset.. until recently, when the culmination of these 7 months helped propel me towards the source of the problem.

BEING COMPLETELY STUCK IN MY OWN MIND. I've always lived in my head. Hell, it has even manifested as total obliviousness to my immediate surroundings on many occasions... I've always been completely entrenched in thought about what the past means for my hopeful future, or how the future will reflect my past, leaving me totally lost in the present.

It sounds insanely simple, and it really is.

I recently found myself able to successfully attempt not fighting or resisting my thoughts, but simply stepping back and letting them run their course while observing. I was shocked at not only how consistently my mind was running, but how much of what I thought to be my life was absolutely entrenched in it. This state of observation is not a state of being I can embody 24/7, as the habits of thinking have had more than a decade to solidify themselves, but it's a state of being I am striving to cultivate and embody more and more with each passing day.

The mind is an absolutely incredible tool, but I will no longer let it be my master.

I won't ramble any longer, but I am simply reporting to this thread with the good news I had hoped to return with. Oddly enough, it's been with me all along, and I was merely blinded to it by the veil of constant thought.

Thank you guys, so much. How major or minor the role you (and all of Yahooka, really) played in helping me get to this point is irrelevant, but the fact that you were all there when I needed you has helped me more than words can say.

__________________
Step Back. Evaluate. Recognize.

"All memory is really a form of regurgitation of undigested experience."
-Alan Watts

José

lol remember that one time you said welcome to life outside my own head to me and then took it back?

now that makes a lot more sense to me why you said that... I think it's kind of funny how you think you know me by the posts I make on yahooka. now I'm not going to pretend like I know myself as well as I think I do, because I know I don't. but I can see how you became obsessed with these types of thoughts. perhaps you had a little too much fun in college and not enough learning about yourself? I have a feeling there's a lot to the psychology behind self-worth and it's really hard for anyone to come to terms with our own perception of our self-worth. anyways I'm sure this is nothing new to you. I'm glad to hear you are becoming more comfortable in your own skin.

Cerpin Taxt

You are free to use my openness here however you'd like spanky.

__________________
Step Back. Evaluate. Recognize.

"All memory is really a form of regurgitation of undigested experience."
-Alan Watts

wellfleation

For god's sake, don't throw pills at a typical dilemma. This is a crossroads most people have to deal with at some point in their lives and have done so without meds they they don't need throughout history. Be a man.

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FIGHTPOWER

José

Alright I would appreciate it if I could actually get some serious feedback on this.

I was thinking about what you were saying about "living inside your own head."

Today in psychology we were reviewing the points of introversion vs. extroversion. My professor did mention how introversion is more of living inside your own head and that's the first time he actually put it in that sense and it made me think about what you were saying CT.

Do you think you are actually making a transition from introversion to extroversion? Because my professor did mention that is possible. I mean I'm just basing this off one thing you said so that's what I'm curious and asking you.

But also another thing, when you accused me of "living inside my own head," you made it seem like a bad thing. But is it really? I'm definitely an introverted person for the most part, but that doesn't mean I can't be extroverted in certain situations. Like my professor said, introverted people don't just go outside of their house to seek out situations where you are confronted by a social situation unlike extroverts.

So I'm curious if you actually think "living inside your own head," is actually a bad thing?

Because to me, there's nothing wrong with it. You can try to open your mind and put yourself in someone else's shoes but you will never actually feel what they are feeling. You can still be kind and a considerate person even though most of your thoughts are "inside your own head."

I know I've quoted my professor a lot in this post but he's the one that made me think about this. Like he said,"you aren't going to leave class today thinking about my life and what's happening in it or how I'm doing today, you're going to be thinking about you."

Not exactly sure what that has to do with what I'm saying but I feel like introverts and extroverts are the same in this way. No matter how much you want or think you are "living outside your own head," you still probably think about yourself more than you think about other people.

Cerpin Taxt

The difficult thing about putting into words the type of transition that I've gone through is that they are just words, they have a history, and they have certain attachments. I was trying to simplify what I really can't simplify, but I'll address what you're talking about.

When I mentioned I was 'living in my own head' in this thread's context, I was referring to my association and identification with the constant stream of noise and thought created by my mind, which is of course in my head. It's the stream of thought that is constant for the majority in the world, no matter the content, nor whether introverted or extroverted... introverted and extroverted are, more or less, the generalized manifestations of those thoughts. What I am talking about here is a detachment from that stream.

When I mentioned living in your head to you, the context of that statement was referring to the idea that you had a preconceived notion about how things should be (which resides in your head) and you were faced with a real life situation which disproved that notion (the situation you posted about) which lead to a kind of realization. My interpretation from what you posted at the time was that you were having a tough time coming to terms with that realization, which again led me to the opinion that you hadn't been faced with too many situations which would challenge your idea of how things 'should be'. My curt and 'cooly vague' assumption thusly, was that you hadn't run into enough real life situations to challenge the world in your head, and that you were perhaps... living in it .

Opinion, interpretation, assumption... all reflective of my stream of thought, which isn't who I really am, so don't take it personally.

(I understand the duality of my last statement... I told you it's not easy to simplify!)

__________________
Step Back. Evaluate. Recognize.

"All memory is really a form of regurgitation of undigested experience."
-Alan Watts

José

Good enough for me! Thanks for responding seriously, I do enjoy thinking about things like this. Like my professor also said today, we have laws for gravity and we can predict it. Unlike behavior, it's completely unpredictable at this point in time and we have a very limited understanding of it. Which is what makes it so mysterious and interesting to me.

Geeno

Nigga I work in a warehouse driving a big truck.

A dude that never went to college speaks to me like im a child.

It fucking sucks.

But whatever. I am still me and I will most likely get past this.

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Qui-Bong Jinn

Maybe you'll have any epiphany man, and just know what to do. I think I had one of those 2 nights ago, and now I'm trying to switch courses to what I took the first time I went to college (biotechnology) when I was 17.