scottishbastard

I'm wondering if any of you know if it's possible to get injections of depakote/valproate/valproic acid (whatever it's called) for bipolar disorder? Besides that I'd like to know if the intravaneous form is damaging to the liver.

Thanks.

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Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

tedkennedy

i dont know anything about it but it sounds like a bad idea. why do you want to know in the first place

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matthew munari

Mydriasis

First - Wrong forum(OH's is better for this...)
Second - Don't slam pills..
Third - Don't slam pills that don't get you high..

I mean I understand the desire to work a needle but just use your head...

Seeing as how the liver filters blood of impurities, I'd be willing to bet a couple dollars it isn't benign to inject anything into your body...

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my_scatterheart

Yes, it's possible.
I hope you're not talking about recreation, because that's really dumb.
But it's been used for IV and some treatments are administered by like (I think monthly? I guess it depends) injections. And to clarify it's also not the same as doing it up yourself. I wouldn't recommend doing it.

__________________
Be mindful even if your mind is full. -J. De La Vega

scottishbastard

No no, not recreational...I dont think it'd be a very good high anyways haha.

I was on depakote for a few years and I had to stop because I was drinking and doing some nasty drugs which really ate up my liver.

Also the musician daniel johnston almost died from kidney failure a few years back from lithium. Now Ive heard depakote is less dangerous, but I dont see the point of sanity if youre gonna die at 45.

I'm just wondering if you can get a doctor to give you daily(?) injections of the medicine, and if so, would this be harmful to your liver? If it is harmful, do you think it would be less harmful?

I'm just weighing my options. Ive been a little manic lately and should probably do the responsible thing and take the meds...So I wanna see if I can do it without destroying my vital organs.

__________________


Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

my_scatterheart

Yeah I hear that. The sad truth is that basically everything you can possibly be prescribed for your ailments is going to be bad for your liver. The other thing about the injection is that there is no way you're going to get an everyday injection, and to my knowledge it still contains the components that are harmful to your liver. Just the way it goes. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's still in there. Generally though, the injections will be given every other week intervals or greater lengths of time. It wont be a daily thing. Lithium is indeed your livers worst enemy, and I don't recommend ever taking it unless you want to be a zombie. It's a horrible horrible thing. And horrible horrible for you. I'm under the impression liver deterioration is going to happen no matter what you take, but I think the severe liver shit that happens from lithium isn't common from depakote. It's definitely less harmful.
I really say it depends on how bad your manic tendencies are. If you're anything like I have been in the past it's manageable with hard work and some lifestyle changes. If you don't think it's manageable go with medication, but understand that's not the responsible part. That shit sets you back to zero. It's your responsibility to overhaul your shit and work on whatever's misfiring and try to work towards some sanity. There's always the chance that down the road you don't really need to be taking anything.

__________________
Be mindful even if your mind is full. -J. De La Vega

stateofkane

That line is said a lot in circles of ppl taking psych meds. The truth is that they are extremely hard to come off of, and most people who take them for more than a few years never will stop. So don't kid yourself and anyone else.

my_scatterheart

I'm not. I took them for a long time and don't now. I no longer abuse prescription pills and I don't try to substitute it with hard drugs. Don't act like everyone has to be as hopeless as you might be. It's about will power. And the last thing people with absolutely no control over themselves need to do is to be thrown on pills that will be with them the rest of their lives. It's an easy fix. Enjoy yours.

__________________
Be mindful even if your mind is full. -J. De La Vega

stateofkane

I'm one of the few people who can say they did stop taking them. It's been almost 3 years completely prescription drug free. I take absolutely nothing.

You made it sound like you still take them.

When I was on those meds I didn't care about anything, not even my hygiene. Today I am actually accomplishing something. I'm getting a 3.5 full time in school majoring in the hardest subject: accounting.

my_scatterheart

...congratulations.

__________________
Be mindful even if your mind is full. -J. De La Vega

stateofkane

Thanks.

Rubix

lol

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myxomatosis

Granted it's just speculation, but Johnston is likely on a pretty high dose of lithium if not a combination of a few others. He's also not a very healthy individual otherwise I don't think. Depakote is indeed less dangerous than lithium.

The only way you'll be getting daily injections of psych meds is in the psych ward, and that isn't any fun. I don't see an injectable form being any better for your liver however. Like scatter said, to my knowledge Depakote injections are only done on an almost monthly basis.

Are you cycling on and off of your meds? That's probably worse for you than just riding shit out depending on how bad your episodes are. There are a decent amount of drugs geared towards treating mania but most of them are indeed pretty heavy shit and relatively zombifying. Best of luck though buddy.

You are an idiot, plain and simple.

Not only does psych meds cover such a wide variety of medications and ailments that a ridiculous blanket statement like that is just asinine, it's also just untrue. I've been on my fair share of such medicines over the years for a plethora of different shit and haven't been on any medication for a few years now and am doing well. Them being extremely hard to come off of also depends on if we're talking going cold turkey, dosage, depends on the medication and depends on what you were taking it for.

Kudos.

Accounting is the hardest subject in school? Why didn't anyone tell me?

__________________
oh sometimes the blues is just a passing bird
and why can't that always be
tossing aside from your birches crown
just enough dark to see
how you're the light over me

last.fm
blog deal (updated 12/22/11)

stateofkane

Psych meds do cover a wide variety of medications that are all brutal to the physical part of the body.

I would get lab tests done and my blood sugar, tryglycerides, cholesterol, blood pressure, were all in bad shape. Today I am healthier than 99% of the human population.

TooStoned

Depakote makes your hair fall out. I'd rather be manic than bald

scottishbastard

As far as Johnston go's I think he became unhealthy because of the lithium. As a young man he was skinny as hell like me. Then he went on lithium and started turning into a fat old man.

My symptoms go on and off. I will be totally normal for 8 months, then start to act really manic, then either slip into a short string of psychotic breaks and THEN slowly come back down, or if I'm lucky just get very manic and then normalize.

I write, and also write/play music so being on any psych meds is rough. It totally cuts out your soul.

Do the monthly injections cover you the whole month? I know depakote can be time released, but I didn't know for so long.

The reason I thought it may be better for the liver is because Ive heard that some people inject alcohol to bypass the liver. I really dont know if thats true or not though.

__________________


Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

Mydriasis

I'm sorry SB I thought you wanted to get high off of the stuff or something.

I know what you mean by med's stealing your soul as well. I'm off meds but there's times where I look back and think damnn I should be on them. Yeah Lithium works but it still can throw you for a loop and a half. Most med's do have weight gain or weight loss side-effects and I have no idea why.

Talk to your doctor about it.

That's really all I had to add.

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scottishbastard

Thanks for all the input guys. I know people on here often say questions like this arent good to ask to a forum of stoners, but Ive found that stoners and other drug users often have or know someone who has some kind of mental illness, AND stoners often spend a ton of time researching weird subjects like this.
While I would never use it in place of a doctor's opinion, it atleast gives me some kind of starting ground.
I've grown to think of manic depression as more of a gift than anything, but in this world of black and white, up and down, left and right, right and wrong it's a bit hard to function.

Everything Ive found on the net says that lithium doesnt metabolize in the liver thus rarely causing liver damage, but they say it does affect other things. Heres on thing I found:

Lithium is not usually known to cause liver damage, when taken
alone. Liver damage may occur if lithium is taken concurrently with
other drugs, which are outlined further down in the answer. Often,
liver and kidney function tests are drawn for baseline values before
therapy is started. The same tests will be repeated by your doctor,
periodically, and compared with the baseline results. Lithium, as a
salt and electrolyte, similar in structure to sodium and potassium, is
cleared by the kidneys. The organs most affected by lithium are the
kidneys, heart, thyroid, and the central nervous system (CNS).

__________________


Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

my_scatterheart

^Good in theory.
The problem is that the kidneys and the liver work hand in hand. And often, when one is feeling the pain of shit you're putting in your body, so is the other.
Lithium isn't a problem until you're in the high doses, to my knowledge. Which is becoming more common.
What's scary about lithium is the way it completely effects everything. polydipsia (sp?) / polyuria is excessive thirst / urination. When you are excessively thirsty and expel that without the ability for urine concentration, it's a problem. Things that we think are nothing (urine and bowel) are some of THE most important bodily functions, and imo, shouldn't be fucked with. Lithium is KNOWN to ruin kidney nephrons which is essentially what makes urine. While your kidneys may not FAIL you are killing off these nephrons which are key in making URINE. The lower your kidney function, the higher risk you have to develop other ailments that are going to have a harder time being repaired because your kidneys are FILTERS. The problem is that this decline seems to have been deduced as a gradual change. So to be on lithium for a long time is the real problem. In short high dose/long term = bad.

__________________
Be mindful even if your mind is full. -J. De La Vega

TooStoned

damn you guys are intelligent...and they say marijuana makes you stupid....as if