stoneric

I've planted directly(seed) into my large pot almost exclusively. The times I have re-potted, I only did 1 re-pot. I didn't notice any difference in yield. I don't want to hijack the big guy's thread but I have always been curious as to why the necessity to re-pot. At the end of my grow I turn my pot upside down, give it a few taps and I have one big rootball the size of my pot sitting on the newspaper I put underneath the pot. I'm certainly not an expert but am I wrong for assuming that with the right watering techniques one doesn't have to re-pot?

Peace seeker

Its not necessarily "wrong" to put the plants in big pots right away, if you re using coco or some other medium. But imho, in soil its a no-no.

Your rootball will be less well formed and more stretched out through the compost. This means less yeld than could be had.

You also risk souring the compost, particularly through the early stages.
There is a reason why just about all gardeners, nurserymen and plantsmen pot on in small stages - it works better.

I used to plant my seeds out in 15L buckets, no potting up. The results werent "bad". Then recently, I learned about incremental potting up. Never looked back, the results spoke for themselves.

In a small plant/big pot combo, the soil holds too much water and the roots dont get enough oxygen. Then in a couple of days after you water, your top layer soil dries out quickly, while the lower layer is soaked. At this stage, you have a problem waiting to happen. You cant water again because you ll have overwatering problems and your wet/dry cycle is messed up.

With the correct size pot the 'dry out time' matches the size of the plant.

Heres what an experienced grower had to say about repoting, when i asked the same question a while back :

farmergiles

I`ve observed somewhat disappointing results before when potting straight up to big pots, this explains why, cheers Peace seeker.

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Peace seeker

I totally agree mate^^

and the dissapointing results arent so much on the final size of the plants, but rather on the final yeild

I couldnt get 18" outdoor plants to yeild more than an ounce and every harvest i kept wondering..."what am i doing wrong..?"


From my (small) experience, small plants in big pots, do eventually explode in growth (after they develop a descent root ball) around week 3-4.

But, by that time, their properly repoted cousins, could be 30-40% larger in size and with much thicker stems and healthy branching. Not to mention a much stronger root system

Of course -as we all know- other variables play an equally important role for a good root system like good draining soil, proper watering, complete wet/dry cycles, root stimulators, pot/root temps, etc.

Jesus H. Christ

That soundeth eerily familiar. From what you have described above, the Lord can only conclude that you hath been snooping around the Lord's Holy Groweth room. TRESPASSER! The Lord is calleth the sheriff on your ass! Wait... Oh. Never mind.

The Lord is leaving this morning on a trip that may last into next week. For this reason, (and because the Lord's dear wifey doth sayeth, "fuck yer stupid plants, jackass - I'm not watering yer Goddamn dope,") the Lord didst thoroughly water his already half-soaked children yesterday evening. About 1 liter/pot, no nutes; enough to soak all layers of soil, and create standing water in the catch trays, (which was of course removeth after ascertaining soakage was complete.)

Unhappy and wilteth though they'll be for the next few days, there was simply no choice. As the plants are (finally) into halfass decent veg growth and the roots are (finally) showeth at the pot bottoms, the Lord felt the time was right to break the evil cycle of top dry/bottom swamped.

Listen to the wisdom of He who Seeketh Peace, lovely mortals: He is not full of shit, (at least on this subject, anyway(eth).

So sayeth the Lord!

Peace & Love
J.H.C.

Jesus H. Christ

The Lord believeth there is wisdom also to be gained from the Prophet, Stoneric: in particular, the words "right watering techniques."

The Lord doth seeth this problem of too much water in too much container for too little planteth, as being not so much about the plant and the pot, but more about the basic physical concept of one not being able to remove excess water once it's in the soil.

With "right watering techniques," as in starting with slightly moistened soil as opposed to completely soaked, and as only miniscule amounts would be added in close proximity to the seedling itself, the Lord believeth one would do just fine.

Peace & Love
J.H.C.

Dandaweedman

I have gone away for a week and a half at a time and did what you did, soak the beggars down.
Worked great.

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Peace seeker

LOL

you re a trip JHC

btw, you girls will be fine. But you should convince the wife to keep an eye on them every now and then while your away

stoneric

Thanks man. Again, I don't want to hijack the lord's thread but I have some questions. How often do you pot up? Do you use the same soil mixture throughout? How long do you veg once your plant has reached its final destination? It would seem nutes would be unnecessary until flower, no?

Jesus H. Christ

This is only the Lord's 4th grow, so I don't have any standard practices set in stone as to any of the above. For what it's worth, though:

1) I'm of two minds on the subject of progressively re-potting or starting seedlings in one start-to-finish container. Veg growth speed would seem to be optimized by re-potting, and the Holy Prophet, Peace Seeker, doth testify of higher yields as well. However; There is a major benefit to single pot-up grows that the Lord only thought of this morning: Low maintenance.

The Lord travels for a living, (in fact, he writeth from the despised, evil confines of Hotel Hell this very evening,) so there are often times when his children are not able to receive the doting care they deserve. Children in small containers can go dry very quickly, and of course, require re-potting as they outgrow their pots - but seedlings in big pots can be safely left for up to two weeks without any attention at all.

2) The Lord has had problems in the past with flowering ladies having to be tied every which way in order to keep them from burning against the lamp, which is 6' above the floor. The last grows were put into 12/12 light upon seeing evidence of pre-flowering, when the plants were 2-3' ft tall.

I plan this time to start 12/12 when they hit 24", pre-flowers or not... I think? Shit, I don't know. Advice is most welcome.

3) Nutes... Jesus Christ, so hard to figure out, whether veg or flower. The ONLY thing the Lord knoweth absolutely, is that's it's always possible to correct a nutrient deficiency; but especially with seedlings in big pots - where whatever you've fed them is going to take weeks to clear - you can really blast your own nuts off (Plaxico Burress style!) by even a minor fraction of an overfeed.

I'm of the school of no nutes at pot-up, and no nutes all through veg unless there's a deficiency that needs correction.

So sayeth the Lord (until he completely changes his mind on everything he just sayeth.)

Peace & Love
J.H.C.

Jesus H. Christ

Day 31

P&L
J.H.C.

Attached Images

 

Dandaweedman

24" is fine with that kind of head room. I am wondering if you allow the plants to chase the lights?
I ran a strain which got to about 6' tall with a big cola on the top but not much else.
I kept worrying about the light burning the plant so I kept raising it and allowing the plant to keep stretching all through flower LOL

I wonder if I still have those pics?

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Sugar420

dear savior,

if low maintenance is thy goal, i recommend automated hydro growing, especially since you seem to enjoy building stuff.

you will deff get a better yield flowering a lot of small plants early than from tall plants. i hate those little stemmy popcorn buds that form in the shady underside of tall plants.

no nutes during veg? plants need NPK to grow, if you rely on soil alone without amendments, growth is slowed unless you grow in compost /mushroom manure something like that

Jesus H. Christ

I think hydro would have been a real good fit for the Lord, but I should have gone that route from the start. I don't want to spend any money on new equipment at this point.

Maybe somewhere down the line I'll try a micro set-up... probably get hooked like a fish.

By "no nutes" I meant none additional than what's already in the soil unless there's a deficiency noted.

P&L
J.H.C.

(Damn. Now I'm all excited thinking about making a mini hydro setup. Damn!)

Peace seeker

JHC, the plants look great (i mean it). In a few days they ll start exploding in growth. Just hold the water for a few days, so they start growing more roots to reach it deeper. A root stimulator (Rhizotonic, root juice, etc) would also help.



How often do you pot up?

Seedlings stay apprx 2 weeks in their first (germinating) pots. Transplant into 2nd stage pots, with the same soil (i use allmix which is preferted and works fine) and leave for another two weeks. By now they should have filled the 2nd pots nicely.

Transplant into your final pots and leave for another 2 weeks or until they have filled the new pots (6 weeks total veggin time). Switch to 12/12 when roots are showing on the bottom holes.

Do you use the same soil mixture throughout?

Absolutelly. choose a soil that drains well.

It would seem nutes would be unnecessary until flower, no?

exactly. When u switch to 12/12, then u start feeding grow and bloom nutes at half dose.

farmergiles

Some great posts here folks!

Yeah JHC they be looking good!

One thing I`ve found is that if you give a few light feeds during veg it seems to acclimatize them so you can get away with more bloom nutes later.

Also the amount of nutes they can take depends on the strain- the NL specials I`ve got at the moment seem to be able to take as much as I can give them, earlier grows have been a lot more sensitive.

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Peace seeker

exactly^^

Certain strains (NL being one of them) do like their ferts even at early stages.

You can do pretty much anything to NL's and they wont complain

What a lovely strain and such enjoyable smoke.

stoneric

What size difference between the final 2 pots would you recommend? And I'm confused as to starting 12/12 when roots are showing through the holes at the bottom of the pot. Don't the roots need room to continue to grow throughout the flowering stage?

Peace seeker

thats one great tip man!

stoneric

What is coco?