Qui-Bong Jinn

Well first of all it contradicts the Christian belief on free will, and seeing as an im an atheist, it doesn't make sense because God doesnt exist, how can you make a theory based on something that doesnt exist?

Waves

lol. your a real intellect.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

SageTree

No matter if that is an intellectual answer or not, I appriciate your honesty and willingness to open and share some more. Atheism isn't something I feel in touch with personally, although I understand it logically. You opinions are always welcome in my book and it's a time to learn for me. This is why i prompted further sharing.

A very scientific adaptation of Namaste', in this case ( My beliefs honour you right to beliefs )

Metta
SageTree

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SageTree

We aren't all so lucky as to all have it in words man I'd like to hear more about finding meaning or whatever is entailed in the life of Atheist's lives.

In kind
Sage

ps. I like the irony senior.....I couldn't let it go man You set em up, I knock em down Sorry man, I had to.

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Qui-Bong Jinn

Ok, Im gonna be more open-minded. How can you make a theory bases on something that isn't proven? Like I really don't see how this can be seen as a legitimate theory, its based on faith.

Qui-Bong Jinn

Like what is this guy trying to say, there is an equation that will calculate someones spirituality levels? come on

Waves

haha.... i type lazily. i know intellectually the difference between you're, your, im just so advanced that such petty semantically concerns are beneath me.

(lol.)

hey sage, have you read this book btw?

God's Debris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

Waves

According to this hypothesis, the God gene (VMAT2), is not an encoding for the belief in God itself but a physiological arrangement that produces the sensations associated, by some, with the presence of God or other mystic experiences, or more specifically spirituality as a state of mind. Based on research by psychologist Robert Cloninger, this tendency toward spirituality is quantified by the self-transendence scale, which is composed of three sub-sets: "self-forgetfulness" (as in the tendency to become totally absorbed in some activity, such as reading); "transpersonal identification" (a feeling of connectedness to a larger universe); and "mysticism" (an openness to believe things not literally provable, such as ESP). Cloninger suggests that taken together, these measurements are a reasonable way to quantify (make measurable) how spiritual someone is feeling.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

Qui-Bong Jinn

lol ya no shit, rhetorical question. What Im saying is that, that doesn't make sense. He is leaving a lot of things unanswerered, like he goes from losing yourself in an activity to feeling connected to a larger universe to believing in things that cannot be proven, no matter matter what, like are those the only 3 categories a person can be put into?

SageTree

The only thing I meant to ask from openmindedness, is to let us in on the provable facts that God or what have you doesn't exist. I personally agree that there doesn't seem to be a tangable way to measure God with the five sense, without making some loose conclusions.

We can for instance measure the physiology of a highly religious person. Like when Buddhist monks raise their temperature in certain focused meditations. Or perhaps the brain scan of a person emersed in deep meditation. We can look at what really happens in the brain during fasting, and talk about the beat of drums or chanting in regaurd to breathing and pulse of the waves created.

What we can't measure is how the person gets to the level of concentration/devotion in which these states take place. To me this is an interesting gap of unansweredness.

Is is possible that the popular science community doesn't have the consciousness to perceive a way to measure such things? And therefore is it possible that there are 'answers' that we have in this day and age that are based on the faith that our conscious minds can contrive ALL the variables. If not we could be missing an answer to a problem only because we can't think outside of the Scientific process, which could be called the doctrine of faith that these are the only ways to test something.

Perhaps like the 'scientist' of old ,who had many many answers for their societies, only to be proven wrong in later centuries, to ridiculous proportions, we too are creating 'certainties of explainations' which are founded in science. And might seem just as absurd in a thousand years? Which doesn't sound so different than some religions I know of.

Einstein said ,"That a problem can not be solved in the consciousness in which it was conceived". Sounds like some pretty untestable mystical words from a Father of Science.

I'm only saying what if man. I could be wrong, You could be wrong. I agree there is alot of misuse of religion, but I also think that science has brought us alot of guns and bombs that are used by the secular and religous alike. Where do ethics in science come from? Are they based on testable conclusions, human conclusions? The societal norms and mores? What are the norms and mores based on? I don't know for sure. But I think to simply detest something for lack of 'provable evidence' might not be consider all the possabilities either.

So I ask please cite examples if you can. I'd like to know what you believe as well. I totally respect you opinion. I only wished to share the depth of my thoughts and questions regaurding what we know and what we think we know and all the questions we haven't even thought of yet.

Doing good for the most amount of people is my highest aim, whatever gets us there, I am interested in hearing about it.

Please share man, please share.

In Loving Kindness,
SageTree


Waves, I never read it, but I'll look around for it and bookmark it for my list.

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SageTree

Hey Stoner Kid,

Not poking you with a stick or anything, but I found an article, Quntum Physics and Buddhism, I posted for further conversations in this forum. I am not a science expert, but I can give my thumbs up to the Buddhist philosophy parts.

Just thought you'd like to read it maybe. It's a tad long, but really makes sense for examples sake.

In Kind
Sage

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Waves

its on the net for free!

it goes well with this topic, its a fun little read.

http://nowscape.com/godsdebris.pdf

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

ProfessorMurder

You ever spent the weekend fasting one day,
tripping the next while listening to your record collection at full volume?

I'm not saying you'll spend eight (8) hours talking to dead relatives,
but if you're lucky and in the right mind set,
you do get a split second of "oneness" where everything is connected and full of meaning.

There were rumors and reports that certain hallucinogenic drugs triggered ESP in some.

I read in a drug encyclopedia that a drug called STP or DOM did just that.

I latter found out the government did experiment with this drug and others to prompt ESP.

The Stargate Conundrum

In 1955,Puharich heard from Gordon Wasson that a ritualistic mushroom cult
existed in Mexico. It had existed forhundreds of years, and was still practiced
in some remote parts of the country. Wasson wrote his own bookon
mushrooms in 1957, which is considered to be a landmark publication. It was
two years later that Puharich’sown book on “magic mushrooms” was
published. Shortly after the publication, in June 1960, Puharich himselfset out
for the village of Juquila in the state of Oaxaca, 200 miles south of Mexico
City. Four weeks later, oneteam member returned saying all others were ill,
but Puharich apparently crazy, as he had gone on alone

Puharich tested 35 “psychically ungifted” people, but none reported anything
out of the ordinary. But in thecase of Harry Stone, during a visit by Aldous
Huxley, Stone asked to have the mushroom administered.Rather than chew,
Stone applied the mushroom on his tongue and on the top of his head, in
ritualistic fashion.Five minutes later he woke up, and began to stagger
around as though he were heavily intoxicated withalcohol. At that point,
Puharich wanted to test whether Stone’s psychic abilities had enhanced. The
resultswere positive. In fact, they were not just positive, but perfect. Ten
out of ten. And not only that, but superfastas well.
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Page 9

Puharich quickly administered a large dose of atropine and removed the
remaining particles of the mushroomfrom his tongue. Within fifteen minutes,
Harry was ‘normal’again.This was, of course, a major revelation for Puharich
and the experiments were detailed in his book, TheSacred Mushroom. But
Puharich was not the only one to write about it.

It was only in the late 1950s, when writing The SacredMushroom, that
Puharich could once again set his mind in a logical order.And what he realised
was simple:Stone had shown the possibility that a psychic, when being
administered a hallucinogenic substance, will beable to get 100 percent
accurate information from “paranormal communication”

In September 1963, at the International Astronautic Congress in Paris,
NASA’s Bioastronautics directorEugene Konecci said that both the American
and Soviet Union Space Agencies were testing “non-electronicbiological
communication”. He believed that “thought transference” might be a
workable method of commu-nication through space


Another possible reason for this turnaround could therefore be that the truth
about Geller’s extra-ordinarypower, only displayed over a very short period of
time, could not be divulged. What if Geller was indeedpsychic, but that
his “super psychic” abilities had been “induced”, by a “psychic drug”? We
note that beforeGeller, Puharich had worked with other psychics, with whom
he had shown that the use of drugs – mush-
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Page 14

rooms – had made “psychics” into “super psychics”. Had Puharich and the
mind control projects stumbledupon “the psychic switch” and had they given
it to Geller – perhaps even without telling Geller himself? Hadthe US
Government discovered the key that made a normal person – but particularly
a psychic person – intoa superman? It may seem a preposterous question,
but any anthropologist will be able to list hundreds ofexamples of tribes in
which the shaman is believed to turn into a superman, able to access
another dimensionand bring back knowledge from that realm… after the
ingestion of a hallucinogenic substance – a psychicdrug

Let us now go back in time, before Puharich and 1952. In the middle of the
Second World War, in September1942, OSS director and Army Maj. Gen.
William “Wild Bill” Donovan thus begins his search for an effective“truth
serum” to be used on POWs and captured spies. Beginning with a budget of
$5,000 and the blessing ofPresident Franklin Roosevelt, he enlists the aid of a
few prominent physicians and psychiatrists like GeorgeEstabrooks and Harry
Murray, as well as former Prohibition agent and notorious Federal Bureau of
Narcot-ics (FBN) director Harry Anslinger.America at the time is not alone in
this search for the serum; the enemy, in Germany, is experimenting
withvarious hallucinogenic drugs. These are mainly performed at the Dachau
concentration camp, directed byDr. Hubertus Strughold, who would later be
honoured as “the father of aviation medicine”. His research isfollowed with
great interest in the USA, especially after an October 1945 Navy technical
mission to Dachaureports in detail on Strughold’s work. So great is their
interest, in fact, that when the OSS and its successor,the CIA, import 800
German scientists of various specialties under the auspices of the
infamous “ProjectPaperclip” during 1945-55, it makes sure to include Dr.
Strughold.Dr. Strughold’s “medical experiments”, for which his subordinates
were tried and convicted as war criminalsat Nuremburg, were nothing more
than a series of bizarre and unspeakably brutal tortures. Even so, helearned a
lot about human behaviour and a natural alkaloid in the peyote cactus called
mescaline. Intriguingly,the Navy tested mescaline as part of its 1947-53
Project CHATTER… and we are back to Puharich and thesearch for a psychic
drug.The remote viewing projects seem to have been largely ethical and
clean. But the same cannot be said ofother projects, such as MK-ULTRA…
which seemed to be more in line with the “ideology” of Strughold’sNazi
Germany. MK-ULTRA was set up in 1949 by Richard Helms under the direction
of Allen Dulles asProject ARTICHOKE, named after one of Dulles’s favourite
foods. It was renamed BLUEBIRD two yearslater and was termed MK-ULTRAin
1953, to finally become MK-SEARCH in 1965 until its “official termi-nation”
eight years later.
MK-ULTRA was directly responsible for the availability of

LSD, phencyclidine(PCP or “angel dust”), dimethyltryptamine (DMT),
dimethoxyphenylethyl amine (STP) and other powerfulsynthetic psychoactive
drugs… on the streets of America

__________________
"No contaban con mi astucia!"

ProfessorMurder

Just like Puharich had wanted to take parts of the project to the private sector, so had
Psi Tech, it seemed.“PSI TECH had its beginnings in the covert world of military
intelligence. The company was created in 1989by a few renegade officers in a top
secret military intelligence unit who risked their careers to transfer thisclassified
technology into the private sector. Those individuals knew that when the Defense
IntelligenceAgency’s Remote Viewing Operational Unit lost its funding that this ground
breaking technology would belost forever.”At the same time, they stated that they were
there to prepare the ground for others having to leave thisproject, making sure they had
a career outside of the military. Nothing essentially wrong with that.Any service provider
needs to market its capabilities, thus we can read: “In late 1991, during the Gulf
War,PSI TECH provided intelligence on Saddam Hussein to the National Security Council

These endeavors earned PSI TECH the atten-tion of the world press.
Currently, PSI TECH’s clients range from the leaders of Fortune 500
corporations, toacademics in science, medicine and law, as well as select
individuals from the private sector who undergo thefirm’s specialized training.

He was also the first to move theremote viewing promotion into the extra-terrestrial realm. *

He made various claims about UFOs, extra-terrestrials, etc., andgot invited
to international conferences, including Germany, where I saw him lecture in
1995. Dames’mis-sion, or interest, depending on which side of the mirror you
were looking at him, was to promote RemoteViewing as a tool that had
unravelled the mysteries of the world. Like Puharich, he was overshooting at
best.Dames’ allies included General Albert Stubblebine, the retired director of
Army Intelligence (INSCOM), aco-founder of Psi-Tech. Another co-founder
was David Morehouse. Dames and Morehouse were both atthe beginning of
the waterfall of books that would soon engulf the remote viewing project. In
short, here werethree people, two freely using their military title, to talk
about the remote viewing project, but equally arguingfor an extra-terrestrial
presence on Earth. Was this true… or disinformation? For even though they
spokefreely about remote viewing and thus preparing the public for the
revelation that such a project had existed

*I first read of this ESP&ET from Aleister Crowely's Wife who channeled aliens.
Transyuggothian Magic

Acheiving sexual trance while sodomizing a male child will transport you past Pluto to an even older God.

The Cult of the Fascinating Child.

THE BOOK OF LIES ------- Aliester Crowley
Book of Lies

"Shortly after publication, the O.H.O. (Outer
Head of the O.T.O.) came to me. (At that time I did
not realise that there was anything in the O.T.O.
beyond a convenient compendium of the more
important truths of Free Masonry.) He said that since
I was acquainted with the supreme secret of the
Order, I must be allowed the IX {degree} and obligated in
regard to it. I protested that I knew no such secret.
He said `But you have printed it in the plainest
language'. I said that I could not have done so
because I did not know it. He went to the book-
shelves; taking out a copy of THE BOOK OF LIES, he
pointed to a passage in the despised chapter. It
instantly flashed upon me. The entire symbolism not
only of Free Masonry but of many other traditions
blazed upon my spiritual vision. From that moment
the O.T.O. assumed its proper importance in my
mind. I understood that I held in my hands the key
to the future progress of humanity...." aka-Children&MindControl

The Commentary was written by Crowley prob-
ably around 1921. The student will find it very
helpful for the light it throws on many of its passages.

__________________
"No contaban con mi astucia!"

verklingen

just found this, very much along the lines of the articles professormurder and sage posted:

Are Spiritual Encounters All In Your Head? : NPR

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

ProfessorMurder

The God Helmet that produces the "sensed presence"

The helmet is supposed to stimulate my right temporal lobe with weak
magnetic fields, and create the illusion of God in my head. Well, not God
exactly, but a sensed presence, a feeling that another being is in the room.

Could be the same thing Carl Sagan called The Watcher in LSD trips.

Is the Watcher or sensed presence, god, subconscience, split brain disorder, or just really good LSD?

I have noticed "The Watcher" while I trip.

Is it me or god.

It felt so real like a waking lucid dream.
Everything safe Everything possible Everything meaningful


"What is the last illusion that we must overcome as a species?" he asks
theatrically. "That illusion is that God is an absolute that exists independent
of the human brain — that somehow we are in his or her care."

Why would anyone deny that wonderful feeling?

"But I'll tell you what the real bottom line is for me," says Schimmel,
who has taken up Buddhism to harness his spiritual life. "I don't care where it
comes from. I'm just a happier person, and I'm a more decent human being
because of it."

__________________
"No contaban con mi astucia!"

420smokeman

behind everything, is god what you are, all that exists, everything came from nothing. that nothing is god or pure consciousness/ pure awarness. everything is an illusion but that in reality, cause it all dies and reforms and changes, only that empty nothing behind everything that observes is real. and you are that

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cause there aint nothing else to do and any where i go i know im you and i keep coming back forward through to myself

SageTree

Le Verk...... Le sigh~~~~~~~ a tribute bump.....

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celestialpillow

well is we wise to say that energy and its lessers are a waste?

cosm, is lushness a failure? lose your're aura n shiite!!!

satanism will xchangeX?~
so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

weesey weaken mye spirits? so soon if hte enlighten' sweeps aroun?
yet, was a "souels wiccin sex"?

celestialpillow

sullen is a wonder. some questino, but lust is someting ye ye ye? BLaaaagggggggggggghh hhhhh~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~

yes unwise is yet to not exist in the image of some's perception, same goesn for my self???