Ego Tripping

............right.

So what you're saying is that Science will ultimately prove that Faith is required to find Meaning.

And that's not roundabout.

__________________

Waves

i dont see how it is.

nothing will ever be able to provide you with all the answers except YOURSELF.

that goes for religion, science, and whatever newfangled tool we create to replace science. We wouldnt need science or religion in the first place if we would choose to trust ourselves. But we dont. We need an outside source to tell us whats what.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

Waves

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

Frodo

No, it's not. And you have no authority to claim that it is.

Time may very well be an attribute of the way we perceive the universe, and nothing more. Don't act like you've got it nailed down, because no one does. I sure as hell don't. My version of events is what seems to be the most rational explanation for myself. Personal experience being what it is, some other people will undoubtedly come to different conclusions, but you mustn't brush aside someone else's viewpoint merely because you have a different notion about this or that aspect of the universe.

Waves

^Would it be fair to say that "anything which exists within our physical universe is subject to having a beginning?"

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

Frodo

I don't know.

If the universe is indeed infinitely old then it's plausible to say that the matter inside it is infinitely old as well. But then, I don't even know if a container is a good way of describing the universe.

To be fair to everyone else, I have to put forth that I've argued much more passionately for a certain viewpoint than I ever intended to. Frankly, I'm not entirely sure how we got here and that suits me just fine. The most rational explanation, in my view, is that we're a product of many millions of years of slow, subtle changes and that the universe is cyclic, with no beginning or end.

Azriel

The thought of God or eternity is far too complex for any of us to understand.
As for my belief in god, yes i believe there is a god but not the sense that most people think of god. I see god as more of a force than a being. I don't see some great and omnipotent being that watches over us all and see's who's sinning and who's obeying. I see god as the lifeforce of nature and the energy that runs through us all. Who started all of this? Who really cares? Even if i found out the answer i couldn't do damn thing about, why not live life to the fullist and when i die see if the answer comes then?

__________________
Death is inevitable, and inevitablity is irrelavent

Ego Tripping

Don't confuse that word...

__________________

Waves

whats the difference?

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

snapshot

a whole other dimension.

__________________
We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Richard Dawkins

Waves

to me, a circle is just another example of the golden ratio.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

jkrane

No, God does not exist.

I believe man must take responsiblity for their own actions instead of relying on God or some higher being for approval or to dictate our actions.

In primitive societies, any kind of God or religion was invented by rulers in order to dominate their ignorant subjects. Fear of God meant fear of government.

If God existed, why can't he just come out and say. "Hey! It's God, How's it goin'?" Is that so much to ask of an "all-powerful" being?

__________________
Maximize efficiency, maximize your high.

There'll be swingin' and swayin', reefers blazin', smoking in the street. Way down in L.A., everyday, smoking in the street.

Ego Tripping

Both have same range of motion, but a spiral makes progress.

__________________

Ego Tripping

God doesn't state he/she/it dictates our actions as much as it says it "judges" you for them, which IMO is just saying 'you get what you give.'

__________________

ziplock

God's no longer an adequate term imo. There needs to be different labels for different understandings. This thread demonstrates pretty well the semantic chaos this term can cause. In this thread, I wouldn't even introduce the term God, simply "Source." God's just such a loaded term it's impractical in any sort of conversation outside of a circle of people with shared beliefs.

Oh yeah, science and religion are the same. Religion 2.0 as waves said.

__________________
Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.

verklingen

In order for us to study something, it must first exist. Someone can draw for us a circle, and we are then free to study its characteristics, but never before the circle has been drawn. So for the universe to be cyclic is one thing, but to claim it has no beginning is absurd. Someone had to "draw" this cyclic nature, describing the nature of the cycle in his own terms, before we can consider the essence of its constitution.

Throughout history many people have claimed to have produced a perpetual motion machine. Whether or not this is even possible, the machine must be put into motion by the inventor before its perpetuity can be manifested and be analyzed by other inventors. Why is it so egregiously difficult to accept that this very simple metaphor can be applied to our own perpetual existence?

__________________

“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

verklingen

This might apply particularly to the YaHookans who grew up in America, but its a pretty intriguing thought:

I think that both people's misguided conception and wholesale denial of God is due in no small part to our childhood belief in Santa Claus.

Now let that sink in for a second before you draw any conclusions. We are told that Santa Claus is a mystical personage who is omniscient. He has a strict sense of morality, and he analyzes all children's actions through this morality: keeping a list of naughty and nice. The nice are rewarded for their good behaviour with gifts and presents, and the naughty are punished for their misconduct with a lump of coal.

Around Christmas time, I will often hear parents scolding their children while I am shopping: "you better stop doing that. Santa Claus is watching!" This empty threat keeps the children in line because they have faith that if they are misbehaving, Santa will deprive them of the gifts they so eagerly want. So after so many years of living their life this way, they eventually are either told or come to realize that there is no Santa Claus. How betrayed the child must feel, putting so much stock in an imaginary character!

Now it is interesting to note that the mainstream Christian's conception of God and a child's conception of Santa Claus are not all that different. If a child was raised under such a Christian belief and then comes to find that Santa Claus is a fabrication, it would not be at all suprising if he applied the same realization to God and considered Him to also be a fabrication. Having already gone through this betrayal and desiring to not be taken for a loop ever again, it would be unserstandable for him to indiscriminately deny any concept which makes assumptions similar to those he made in his belief of Santa Claus. This is only natural.

This also explains the enthusiasm many have about science and their vehement (and often blind) attitude about accepting what science tells them about reality. Because mainstream science claims to be based on the thoroughly physical and makes no assumptions, they feel safe giving the scientists their faith. But science is full of just as many assumptions, so they are being equally deceived!

It's a very slippery slope, but this is the best way I can explain why some people just cannot accept the possibility of a creator, whatever name we give Him.

__________________

“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

Kishar

Man is not the dreams of God, God is the dreams of Man

I just heard that one today and that makes more sense than all the other posts in this thread bongsmilie

__________________
So, if a stranger walked up to you and poured pebble like seeds into your hand and then said, plant them and your harvest can be made into rope cloth or paper, it could help the sick or intoxicate. What would you say?

Would you keep the seeds or chuck them away?

RollREDRoll

verklingen

^
Care to expound a bit?

__________________

“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

JcPizwink

If man created the concept of God then Mankind IS God.

There has to be a source. Even if it is ourselves.