old_mans_child

ok....now give your veiw on it

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TyroneJenkins

God is the only thing that has just always been, he's existed from time indefinite to time indefinite!!

Here's a couple illustration that helps me realize that there is indeed a Creator:

Illustration A: Say your walking through a wilderness and you stumble across a huge building that had amazing architectural detail... it was simply a peace of artwork! Would you reason "oh this must've just come about by chance, through corrosion and such"? Ofcourse not! That building obviously had an intelligent creator! Now think how much more complicated the human body is, the human brain... scientists to this day do no fully understand the inner workings of our brain or body! Also we're born with 5 senses, why? to enjoy life... we don't need 5 senses to exist, to survive! I can't imagine evolution coming up with this, cause its all about evolving inorder for survival, not enjoyment

Illustration B: Say your walking through another baren desert where barely anything can survive and you come across this nice house... you go inside to find that it's fully stocked with plenty of food, a variety infact. Has water, even things to entertain yourself... everything you need really to sustain yourself. Did this house come about by chance? It couldn't have!

This house represents Earth, and theres even less a chance that earth could've come about by chance!

Jus something to ponder on,

Peace

snapshot

That's just because you either aren't smart enough or haven't seen the evidence for yourself.

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We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Richard Dawkins

bongload

Evolution gave you five senses to survive... a long with a complicated brain for deeper thinking and reasoning. Your body is so complicated in order to meet all your necessary processes, without some of it you would die. Those humans who didn't have a body able to survive ended up dying, and now you're left with us and our bodies.

JcP

If you knew, you'd get bored pretty quickly I think.

I'm becoming more and more of a convert to the concept of a sort of "sleep" period followed by a completely new awakening as a new lifeform, this universe or other, without any remembrance of where I came from. Each death you reaffirm your infinite self and experience a new story.

It's probably why we all love television and theater so much. It's like "mass living" of human story.

Waves

how about "mass expression?" millions and millions of people all creating this one event, this one expression all filtered through their individual minds and beliefs to create even more variety which in turn spawns more things we cant even comprehend...i definitly agree. it allows for the spread of ideas and thoughts and beliefs to a wide range of people. haha, i mean its more an "expression" than a spread, but to us it would seem that this one object causes a spread of ideas.

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On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

TyroneJenkins

I understand the illustrations are just too simple for you, and you feel there needs to be some complex answer to things inorder for you to feel like there is no higher power for you to answer to...

Really tho, so you're telling me that if you were to walk in the middle of nowhere and see a building like the Empire State Building or maybe one just like this:

http://www.oundle.gov.uk/images/B&W-Talbot.jpg

You would conclude that "oh this building must've just came about from the effects of time... wind, the elements, ect"? No, nobody in their right mind would think that!

Our bodies, heck every animal and insect on this PLANET (even plant life) is more complicated and detailed than anything mankind has EVER created!

Just as it would be ridiculous to think that the Empire State Building came about "on its own" without anybody creating it, so it is also ridiculous to think that our life, and every other living thing on this planet came about by chance...

I'm sure all you who believe life came about by chance will continue to argue this to death with your complex theories that will never lead you anywhere, except more theories... why?

I'm sure the reason is different for everybody, but mostly because some people just don't want to accept the fact that yes we do have to answer to a higher power... sorry bud!

Peace Out

espiex

I think people choose to believe in a higher power because they can't accept there isn't one. Your building analogy is poor, and you clearly do not understand the concept of evolution. Go and study it before you pass judgement on it.

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-=|=-

JcP

evolution has NOTHING TO DO with whether life began through an act of a divine source.

Evolution has to do with the EVOLUTION of an already present life form. Evolution does not answer "where did life come from in the first place."

Please.

TyroneJenkins

My bad on that... I realize some people who believe in evolution also believe in a creator... I should've said "for those of you that believe life came about by chance" instead of "evolutionist".

Peace

old_mans_child

^^isnt that intelligent design?(evolution with a some kind of super creator, but not the well known "god"

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JcP

Yes, but when most people refer to intelligent design then are talking about the closed-minded stupid fucks who think humans have only been on earth for like 3000 years and that evolution didn't happen at all.

Ego Tripping

I disagree. I choose to believe in a higher power because I CAN accept there isn't one.

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TyroneJenkins

To bad evolution didn't exist... we're all still exactly like we were created... and no i'm not close minded at all, I've done my research... I don't think you quite know the huge combination of COINCIDENCES that had to have happened inorder for the "life to just come out of some 'prebiotic soup'" story even remotely be some kind of possibility... scientists to this day can't figure out how living matter could have come from non-living matter...

JcP

Tyrone, tisk tisk. You're smarter than that.

In the infinity of space...in the trillions upon trillions upon trillions of planets, those coincidences only had to happen once. You're thinking of this from where you are. But if we were on the planet Zenu and had yet to make contact with other races, you'd be saying the same thing "too many coincidences."

If you understand that there are infinite planets that could support life, out of all of those, only one had to evolve like ours has to be having this conversation.

Your research is only assuming this planet is the only canvas. As in "everything everywhere had to be perfect for this to happen." When in reality it's only 1 out of everything that did.

Evolution is real buddy. You can see it plain as day in present day society. The human race has gained an average of 3 inches in height in the past 100 years. That's mutation to fit the environment, buddy.

littlehey5

here's a quote from a book i like called "blue like jazz"

"sooner or later, you just figure out that there are some guys who dont believe in God and they can prove he doesnt exist, and some other guys who do believe in God and they can prove he does exist, and the argument stopped being about God a long time ago and now its about who is smarter, and honestly i dont care."

personally i beleive in a power greater than myself, just due to things that have happened in my life, and i will never be reasoned away from that belief. if i do abandon that belief, it will because of circumstances beyond my control.

whether or not you beleive, i will respect that.

JcP

Are there any atheists here? I really am interested in knowing how you can justify not believing in some sort of divine source?

Something had to come out of nothing at one time or another. Even in the big-bang theory, there is no explaination of where the "ball of stuff" that exploded came from?

This isn't rhetorical guys, I'm seriously curious as to how someone can justify their belief in a lack of divinity.

As far as I can tell, something came out of nothing. And that's the very definition of a divine occurance. The only other answer is that it's always been there. If that's the case, you agree that this universe is infinite. Therefore, if something never ends, and you are part of something that never ends, then by basic associative logic, you never end. If you never end, you are divine yourself.

Anyone able to help me out?

TyroneJenkins

wow, i thought you were atheist from your posts... I can't help you out on this tho, cause I too don't know how anybody can explain how something came from nothing in the first place without some sort of intelligent being making it come about!

Another sign that the universe did have a beginning though is that its been proven that the universe is infact constantly expanding... so it had to have come from one source at one point.

JahBohl

I justify my lack of god belief the same as I justify my lack of belief in Santa, in invisble dragons, ass gnomes, pink unicorns, etc..... there just isn't credible evidence.

For this unanswerable question of god I choose the answer of "I don't know" while theists prefer the "god did it" answer. I choose to error on the side of not wanting to accept a belief that may be false.

Do you believe in a god that has it's hands in the everyday affairs of people, the omniscient, omnipresent overseer of everything, or the god that just made everything and then went away to puff some bowls never to be seen again?

Maybe this post (Why I'm an Atheist) will give you some more insight.

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"If you know what life is worth, then you would look for yours right here on Earth" ~Peter Tosh

I'm in favor of it as long as it's multiple choice. ~Kurt Rambis, on drug testing

JcP

JahBohl, thanks for replying.

I appreciate your post, but it's irrelevant in terms of what I was asking.

It's not about faith or lack of faith, whether I believe in a man with a big white beard and lightning bolts or some "lightsource" or a giant spider in the sky.

What I don't understand is how some people believe there's NO type of "God."

I TOTALLY understand (and agree with) "I don't know" but I don't understand "there isn't."

Does that make it clearer? It's not about faith, it's about observation. Something, at some time, came out of nothing OR everything always has been.

But either way, in order for there to be infinity, there has to be a creator of that infinity. You know? It's hard to explain in words...look at it like this...shouldn't it be an infinity of nothing? Why is this universe an infinity of everything?