Ego Tripping

I never said that people are going to act un-selfishly just because they have a belief in an Afterlife (or lackthereof). Your example simply furthers my point...what you believe will happen after (or won't happen) determines your actions here and now. Those that believe they will 'get what they give' are the ones that are trying to make the world a better place for future generations. Those that believe Death is "blinking out of existance" will feel free to do as they wish without fear of consequence. Those that believe they will truly be "saved" for blowing themselves up and taking the "heathens" lives will explode accordingly, etc..

All the world's problems from Day 1, stem from people not knowing what lies beyond Death. The entire History of the World's trauma stems from this alone. We're all afraid of the unknown and Death is the ultimate Unknown that we ALL must face, no exceptions for anybody.

I choose to use that as my guide and envision my Death on a daily basis. Since I feel that I will truly 'get what i give' (scientifically speaking: if I was not here, the reactions from my actions would not have occured, so I will recieve the result of all my actions starting from my first Breath...no judgement, simply just a review of the results of my actions that I performed in my Physical body) I try and live in accordance to what I want to see when I receive this review.

__________________

Waves

So whats the difference between using death as a guide and using eyesight as a guide for people who are not blind?

And what about my example with food?

If you do not eat food you will die, so is this not just as true as the fact that you will die someday?
Bingo. And thats what we should focus on, not death. We should use our conversations and our experiences as our guides, not some event that doesnt mean anything past exiting the physical universe That is focusing on the future, when in fact you should be focusing on the NOW. The future will happen, we dont have to worry about that, we will all die. So why spend any time at all contemplating it? Just accept that it is going to happen and go about your day, i say.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

JcPizwink

First of all, no.

If you believe in some grand heavenly afterlife that DOESN'T have anything to do with how you live this life, then yes you're right. But that's not what ANY religion that I heard of suggests...

You're using a really bad example to justify a generalized opinion about all religions. Are there people who do dumb and terrible shit in the name of God? Yes. But, in my opinion, that's misguided not the truth about what the respective religions preach.

JahBohl, I respect your right to be an atheist and I definately think there is an argument for atheism. But your reasoning above is way off base.

JcPizwink

question 1: eyesight is not universal to all humankind. Some have it, some don't. Death is not only universal for all humankind, but all life. That's the difference I think...

Not sure if anyone is suggesting death should be our compass. However death certainly is the only thing we know will happen in the future for each of us. There's something profound about being sure of an event that has yet to happen. That's all.

Waves

I still dont see why food isnt a truth just as much as death.

Eating food is universal to mankind. We all need to eat, or we will "die."

This is just as much a truth as the fact that we all "die" someday correct?

There are many more "truths" in life than we realize, but the only thing we should be using to guide ourselves is ourselves. All these "truths" are just beliefs in desguise.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

JcPizwink

We're getting into semantics a bit here, but no...you can "not" eat. You have free will to eat or not eat. Of course there are consequences, but that's not universal. You can't choose to not die.

Waves

There is no rule that says we MUST die. It is a belief construct that HEAVILY INFLUENCES ALL of us. There is no rule that says you MUST EAT. There are just heavily influencing constructs. And so it is for everything else in life.

None of these things are guides, imo.

If you are born you will die, and if you do not eat you will die. These are all CHOICES. Thats what i am trying to get across

You can choose to not die. Dont be born and you will not die.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

JcPizwink

There is indeed a rule saying we must die. You might think we come back/are eternal/reincarnate/etc. but this life ends with death. Whatever death is, it's inevitable.

The difference waves is in that last sentence (at least what I'm getting at).

Being born is not a choice (or a choice we remember making). Eating or not eating is.

This is such a weird tangent I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. I just know there is a difference in inevitability between death and everything else in this life.

Ego Tripping

Ok Waves, I want you to believe as much as you can that you won't die.

Then I'll see your stupid ass on the other side.

As far as Eyesight goes: Everyone has different eyesight. Some people are colorblind. Some people are completely blind. Some people are far sighted. Some are nearsighted (btw none of these were CHOICES, its how they were incarnated...unless you believe you planned all this before incarnating but thats not within the realm of provables so we cannot use that as a guide either). This is not something we can all agree on and use as a Guide because it varies too greatly.

Death comes to ALL of us, no matter who it is. Doesn't matter what fashion and its not a choice, you simply will die no matter how much you care for the body or "turly believe" you won't. Its the only thing we all agree will occur in our lives. There's nobody that can challenege this...if you're trying to, you're on the losing end already.

__________________

Ego Tripping

You got it down pat, dude. This is exactly what I am saying. So if its the only thing you know is on the way, why not live your life by it?

__________________

JcPizwink

I don't know. Now that I think about it a little more, living your life for death seems anti-productive. If death is inevitable should you live your life for it or live it in spite of it? IE, since it's going to happen anyways, why think about it?

Ego Tripping

I think it does. Why not? Its like seeing the train coming down the tunnel as you sit on the tracks having tea and saying "well, its not really important, we'll just concern ourseves with it later." Nothing is inevitable in this Life except Death so it must be special and important.

__________________

Ego Tripping

My trust in Death enables me to truly Live. Thinking about it everyday doesn't mean I mope around. It means I ensure that everyday is truly LIVED. Its when you don't think about it that your life becomes mundane and dull because you've forgotten how precious it truly is.

It's a double edged sword man...It goes back to the old saying, does the Truth enslave you or set you free?

THATS the Choice. bongsmilie

__________________

Waves

Why would anyone want to believe that?
All choices. You need to accept that every waking moment of every waking day is a choice. Every little tiny thing that catches your attention is a creation of YOU. Someone may decide to be born colorblind to attain a specific purpose, someone may decide to be born with no legs for another purpose. its all choice. you decided to be born where you are in the timeperiod you did for a specific reason. you are now deciding to be on yahooka engaging in this discussion for a specific reason. And on it goes.
I think we as a race are challenging this already. Have you researched the average life-span of the human being? We have realized that death is simply another construct and we are now challenging that construct en masse. We are saying to ourselves "if we are just dying and coming back, why not stay here a little longer and finish a little more?"

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

JcPizwink

Ego Tripping

You are focusing too much on this other-worldly force that you have not harnassed. You seem to feel you are not subject to the world around you...you shall be humbled, you're not a God yet (at least a fully realized one). But don't think for a second that I don't know what you mean...I do see how this physical experience is all a choice...I can demonstrate that with a simple picture....

__________________

Waves

subject to the world around me?

i AM the world around me

YOU are the world around YOU.

You choose to focus on death. I choose not to. etc etc.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

JcPizwink

Then why are we here together?

Ego Tripping

Man, you're on target everytime. Waves keeps forgetting this a shared experience even if it is comprised of individual ones.

__________________

Netochka

i'm not being retarded - if i was that post would have read: "nuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh hhhhh gaaarrrghhh mmmiiilllkk???"

that's just my opinion ok? I don't believe in proof, you obviously do. That's no reason to start throwing mental disabilities at me.

__________________
If God didn't want people to burn, he wouldn't have made them flamable.