j-wonder

this thread really shouldnt even become a discussion because I know that different people have vastly divergent views on the subject.

so ill put it to a poll....just out of curiousity i want to see what the readers on this board would say.

snapshot

i have no clue. and anyone that says otherwise doesn't have a clue either.


i don't even know what goes on in my own country, and I try to pay attention by actually watching whats going on (cspan1,2,3) instead of just what gets reported. but i watch and read what gets reported and I'm still not smart enough (or stupid enough, depending how you look at it) to act like i know wtf is really going.


but i prophesize that many will vote, few will leave this thread unscathed.

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We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Richard Dawkins

pullmeunder

yea it's a really complex situation that roots back thousands of years so i won't pretend to know any answers, but the one thing i feel safe in saying is that Israel always seems way too quick to use brutal unjustified force against the arabs, often killing many innocent people, as is the case right now.

I know Israel suffers many losses of innocent people at the hands of palestinian terrorists, but killing innocent people in return won't stop the muslim extremist groups. I don't know, it's just a fucked situation in general and i hope it will end.

Dex

They share the blame equally, but i want the jews to win.

snapshot

i always take the side of whoever is against israel because israel always has its rooters.

so for me israel just has an itchy trigger finger which it justifies by pointing a finger at the us.

if someone is going to win this war i really don't think it's going to be about who's got the bigger guns. i don't think you can do that with a civilian population that's waiting for reasons to become a militia.

me too.


but it's nothing to huffy over people. lets try to keep this civil.

__________________
We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Richard Dawkins

pullmeunder

Israel may have the guns but i don't think they can kill an ideology that is manifested in all kinds of extremist groups that permeate the entire region. It's really just an awful situation that i think is going to drag on forever until something really serious happens.

pullmeunder

I honestly could care less about either side winning, i think it's insane that two primitive religions are fighting each other over a piece of land. In a civilised world they'd be able to coexist in a relatively peaceful manner, but unfortunately i don't see that happening.

snapshot

i'd rather live in a whitebread jew world than a arab islamic world, and even thuogh human life is priority one among all those things, always, for vanity's sake i'd rather the jews just won and we wouldn't have to keep deciphering this shit.

__________________
We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Richard Dawkins

pullmeunder

well if you look at it that way i'd rather see them both gone, christians too, i'd love to live in a world without monotheism, or at least a world without it's huge impact on society, that would be nice.

The Rev

Everyone in the region needs to be bitch-slapped for a week, then forced to smoke a kilo of cheeb each, then bitch-slapped for another week for good measure. I mean, it's like they ENJOY being at war and experiencing atrocity, for as often as hatred is thrown around the middle east.

Dumb ass fuckers.



The Rev

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Canuck Wisdom

Dude its not about religions at all. Sure there are relgious lines that could be drawn but thats not what causes the fighting. Not by a long shot.

And I don't see why monotheism is a bad thing for society either. I believe in a single loving god and I'm going to do social studies and politics, do you think I would make a bad policy maker because I value compassion? Rhetorical.

I voted for both.

Foolishness all around. Clearly, bombing them a bunch is going to stop them from taking more people. Right. Excellent Logic. And kidnapping soldiers has been proven many times in the past to be an amazing way to 'reclaim' a country.

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-Knowitall A&P type-

Dr. Nick Nasty

Both.

Any time both sides believe God owes them the same piece of land, it's bad news.

and nobody wins in wars like this...because they will keep it up beleieving that at some point God will make his move for them.

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The true [classical] liberal, in pursuit of fixed principles, must never have fixed political alliances. They must change based on the ruling rationale of the moment.- Lew Rockwell

Canuck Wisdom

Ugh, why do you assume they think like that?

The governments have political reasoning for all of their actions, as do the militia groups.

The closest I could realistically see is at the lower ranked end of the militant groups (not government military) as religious reasons being used as a single aspect of a much broader doctrine of brainwashing.

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-Knowitall A&P type-

burn1down

Great piece of land they are fighting for!

Israel targets facilities. Some happen to be near civilians, such as yesterday when they attacked Hezbollah Headquarters and some civilians got killed. Or at the airport, where the runways were the target, not the civilians. Why do civilians sometimes get killed in these retaliatory strikes? Because Muslim terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and the PLO deliberately place their headquarters and facilities in civilain neighborhoods, using them as human shields. Israel long ago stopped worrying about that and simply targets the enemy. Civilians get caught in the crossfire. Such is the nature of warfare.

Contrast that to the Palestinians. They deliberately attack Israeli civilians. Women and children waiting for the bus. People attending Bar-matvahs. People out on the town at a discoteque, etc. There is no justification whatsoever for doing that. If they have a complaint then let's hear it. If their remedy to their complaint is to strap bombs to their bodies, cross the border, and kill Israeli civilians, then I really could care less what their complaint is.

Dr. Nick Nasty

i completely understand that. there are certainly other components to the warfare

the israeli government has interest in exapanding its hegemony in the region in ordert to gain access to resources (water is becoming increasingly scarce, as i hear it)

the militias want to form governments to procure these scare resources as well.

but the religious component is real---and it is what raises and perpetuates the foot soldiers who do the dirty work for both sides.

__________________

The true [classical] liberal, in pursuit of fixed principles, must never have fixed political alliances. They must change based on the ruling rationale of the moment.- Lew Rockwell

turmaline

I'm tired of seeing this shit on the news.

Dr. Nick Nasty

maybe...but are you also sick of high gas prices? because the shit going on their is going to have a big-time impact on it-oil just went to $77 a barrel today with the escalation of the war(s) over there.

it's all interconnected.

__________________

The true [classical] liberal, in pursuit of fixed principles, must never have fixed political alliances. They must change based on the ruling rationale of the moment.- Lew Rockwell

turmaline

I don't go anywhere, so no.

I could care less.

CANADA HAS OIL, SO WHY AREN'T WE USING IT?

i HAVE NO IDEA EITHER.

OOPS CAPS.

Governor

The Jews ruled that area before the Romans and until just recently they were easy targets for anyone that wanted to fuck with them, anywhere in the world.

The muslims are waging their "holy war" and the extremism that's being brainwashed into the minds of their children on up will result in jihad against any non-Muslim culture in the world. This war has been imminent since the writing of the Koran but the Jews are the the closest. Fundamentalists are a danger to all people outside their religions as exampled by the Christians and their Crusades.

Until we can force zealots into the closet and make them wash their hands after practicing their filth there will be religious wars.

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"Fuck the monkeys" Ken Gorman
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Roach

Israeli's are Arabs.

Silly Rabbit.




...and I agree with the Gov.