Kat_IV

I've begun to realize from my discussion with people about their views, that people are somewhat hypocritical. I know I am sometimes. I tell others that they should have an open mind, and yet I find myself shutting things out sometimes.
All right, I suppose I don't think it has so much to do with shutting out new views and opinions as much as it is someone weighing what they already know against what they learn thats new. But, that's my right as a person to be hypocritical if I choose to do so. In this society, we all have the right to have our own opinions, and take our own actions, even if it is hypocritical. And because of this, we all speak our mind about things we believe in. The more I talk to people, the more I begin to see both sides of issues. I see that both sides have thier pros and cons. If I start believing one side, I look at the other, and start thinking "well, they're crazy." And then I look at the otherside, and see they also have a point, so I go over there. Then I look at the one I was just looking at, and think "well, they're crazy too." And then pretty soon, I'm crazy myself, and I just don't know what to believe in anymore.

Because people all believe so strongly in something, they all start leaking out their own individual truths. They leak out these truths, and then withdraw into their own little gated community, afraid of a larger forum. People all have their points, and they are allowed to say what they believe. Is it so wrong to believe in something that many other people don't? Of course not, that is a person's own right to believe what they believe. Just because someones doesn't take someone elses opposing opinion on a subject doesn't mean they're wrong. It simply means they see things differently. So nobody is invalidated, but at the same times, nobody is right. And this realization makes it so much harder to have something of my very own to believe in, because I know on some level, it is probably wrong.


So the question is, taking all this into account, how does a person hold their own truth, when so much of the structure of our society and our beliefs, are very grey, and left to personal interpretation?

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"So tell me. Did Venus blow your mind?" bongsmilie

verklingen

Defining truth infringes upon Free Will. Very interesting that you create this thread now, because I just made a very relevent post in another thread which I think fits in here quite nicely:

If one cannot find truth in the Bible, I fail to see how he can find truth anywhere else. Or to go further: if one cannot find truth someplace, he ought not claim to have found it any place else. For what is truth but a belief, and what is belief but a choice? To deny the merit of another's choice is to deny the merit of one's own choice.

No belief has any more or less merit than any other, and to believe differently gives one a sense of superiority: a sense from which springs our entire history of religious turmoil. For myself, I choose to see the merit in all things.

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

Waves

Truth itself is a concept, a belief that we all possess different variations upon. But truth is an absolute as well because you will always be experiencing something and that something is always "true."

in a wider sense, there is no truth besides the meaning we put behind a word we created to explain the unexplainable, basically. Right now we are questioning our truths en masse. Many people are going to go through much conflict in this process, but nonetheless its a choice we have all made, to participate in this action of questioning truths and addressing beliefs that we all hold.

how many people here on yahooka can honestly say they hold the same truths as 3 or 4 years ago? Maybe even 1 year ago? I know mine have changed dramatically and they continue to as well. we're in for a big change folks

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On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

kRad

go by your own beliefs and believe whatever the hell you want because its your experience

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Are you in the know?

Beyonder

This form of thesis>antithesis analysis is unproductive if you want to investigate the world, as you also have discovered. The ancient sceptics dealed with the problem, but they had a rather specific goal, namely 'attaraxia', or tranquility of mind. They suspended judgement on all things to actually have no impulse for inquiry. Unless you also want this attaraxia, my suggestion would be not to take that route. It's one of the ways (tropes) sceptics used to suspend their judgement.

If nobody is invalidated, and nobody is right, you have the classic case of Socrates and Protagoras, and I can say "Well, if what you say applies to everyone, it allso applies to everything I say. And I say you are plainly incorrect" (I'm not knocking on your views, this arguement is along the lines of what Plato has written in the 'Protagoras'). This is called 'turning the tables', and is possible because epistemological relativism (saying that everyone and no one is right) is self-referentially inconsistent, since it's arguement is self-defeating.

?
By doing philosophy?

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He who lets the world, or his own portion of it, choose his plan of life for him, has no need of any other faculty than the ape-like one of imitation. He who chooses his plan for himself, employs all his faculties.

-John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create.

-William Blake

Porcelain

You don't have to hold on to Truth. I don't see why so many people measure your success in life with the time you spend being consistent in your beliefs. Consistancy is not the desire of your soul. Your soul desires experience. Experience forces you to evolve and so, your Truth will evolve with it.

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reverie

In relation to the individual:
Truth is measured by experience

In relation to phenomenon:
Truth is the true or actual state of a matter.

Imo anyway...

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dissolve popular detachment

Kat_IV

True, but that is exactly the point. It is possible that the logic is supposed to be self-defeating. Because if the logic of cultural relativism in itself can be wrong, then it may further supprt itself. (confusing, I know.)

But after some more thinking, I think I have come up with an answer to my own question:

society is composed of so many people with such different views that to create and hold on to one's personal belief system can be a daunting task at best; which is why so many people choose to believe in something and not let any other opinions in. In my opinion, if you can't justify what you believe in to yourself, then you have no right to advocate it. Sticking to what you know to be true is also something that I strongly suggest, however this can also be somewhat difficult when one considers that not even everyone agrees that gravity or physics themselves even exists. Thinking to much into an issue will inevitably cause someone to become undecisive; so, sometimes, it may be of more use to you to rule out what you know to be false before moving on to trying to decide to yourself what is true. In the end, it all boils down to what your' experiences in life have led you to believe is true, because no one has the answers to what is really true or not. Until someone does come along with said answers, there is little that we as a society can do but to speculate at various possibilities and puzzle over the enigmas that life offers us. All that I can really say on the issue is to neither ignore the half truths and lies nor become obsessed with them.

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"So tell me. Did Venus blow your mind?" bongsmilie

C_ka

know to be true / believe to be true

the only thing i KNOW to be true is my "self"
What anyone including my self Believes to be true, is irrelivent imho, because they are not 'true' truths. only beleifs.

Basicly the only thing anyone can Know from their experience, imho, is fact of existance at an individual level. all the rest might well be a dream.

But none the less, the Experience happen/s/d for the Individual. (i.e, the only thing i truely KNOW is my experience/existance.

Cause you can always call bullshit.

Whic leads myself to an interesting question, death. Two options as i see it, i either cease to exist, which i can deal with. or i continue to exist. If i do, do i have memory? or is just like a memory/existance reset point? im gonna think on it.

Good post kat.

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"yes i smoke shit straight off the roach clip.."
- Cypress Hill

"Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living things, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on the earth. I said then and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free."
— Eugene V. Debs

bizong

there is one truth, that there is no such thing as truth.

Governor

There are as many truths as there are minds to explore them.

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Waves

isnt that a truth!?!?

lol...

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

The Rev

Truth is a difficult thing for me. Once I get a hold of a piece, I start to question it, and soon, there's only doubt there.

Who knows, maybe Doubt is the only real Truth.



The Rev

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donniedope

Descart also said what bizong said. So waves, are you telling me descartes has no idea what hes talking about?

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-God made the mobile hotbox for a reason, but some dumbass renamed it the car
-i wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself.
-Yeah I called her up, she gave me a bunch of crap about me not listening to her, or something, I don't know, I wasn't really paying attention.
-A gay guy upon seeing a bunch of girls in a room: It smells like pussy in here.....I think.
-its not until we've lost everything that we are free to do anything

verklingen

Descartes had no more or no less an idea of what he was talking about than any of us do.

EDIT: Truth is as universal or local as you choose to apply it. In an infinite existence, all things are equal.

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

donniedope

thats why hes so famous for his ideas right? And if your so smart where the fuck did i put my phone charger?

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-God made the mobile hotbox for a reason, but some dumbass renamed it the car
-i wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself.
-Yeah I called her up, she gave me a bunch of crap about me not listening to her, or something, I don't know, I wasn't really paying attention.
-A gay guy upon seeing a bunch of girls in a room: It smells like pussy in here.....I think.
-its not until we've lost everything that we are free to do anything

verklingen

No.

And,

I don't know.

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

donniedope

Then why is Descartes famous is his philosphy sucks? I couldve sworn that was why he is recognized.

__________________
-God made the mobile hotbox for a reason, but some dumbass renamed it the car
-i wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself.
-Yeah I called her up, she gave me a bunch of crap about me not listening to her, or something, I don't know, I wasn't really paying attention.
-A gay guy upon seeing a bunch of girls in a room: It smells like pussy in here.....I think.
-its not until we've lost everything that we are free to do anything

Beyonder

Yeah, Descartes. He is considered the father of 'modern' philosophy, since there is a major shift in how philosophy is done after his works. Descartes marked the end of the scholastic period.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/descartes-works/

__________________
He who lets the world, or his own portion of it, choose his plan of life for him, has no need of any other faculty than the ape-like one of imitation. He who chooses his plan for himself, employs all his faculties.

-John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create.

-William Blake

ziplock

Truth is a relative quality. So far my best method of testing for this quality is reflective of evolution, applying ideas to environments and seeing how well they adapt and survive. Even then, the truth is relative to the environment.

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Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.