The Muslim Jesus - Page 2

**SageTree** · 07-05-2009, 07:25 AM

Thanks for sharing that I10HaulR. I can really relate to how you felt as a Christian growing up. I was really involved in my church growing up. I sat on boards, involved in services, was president of the youth group and led alot of Bible Studies for my peeres. All the while, however, I was never fully accepting of the Trinity and I even questioned if Jesus was ever cruxified in the first place. What I felt was important was God. Truth be told the holy spirit is the only other part I could really get into of the Trinity. I think it more as the verbness of God or the creative force the energy. When I was 16 I stopped going to church all at once and never went back to a Christian church.

For some years I too sat alone in my personal time and sounds like I did what you did as well. I was however reading the Bible and doing daily lessons....while smoking a joint. One evening as I sat reading by candle light, I thought that 'I should close my eyes and sit here with my thoughts' Little did I know this was the night I entered on my new path. I started reading about meditation and Buddhist meditation is the one that made the most sense to me and felt like the lessons of Jesus embodied without all the questions of miracles and all the historical knowledge of how the Bible was kept.

I think from that day forward all my religious comparative studies still held firm in the 4 noble truths and could easily see how each religion explained an 8 fold path if not to enlightenment, to be the path after acceptance of the willing of said religions God.

One of the first places I explored or branched was to look at Hinduism and how that related to Buddha and the Jains as well. This was all interesting to me, but i quickly found myself reading more about the gnostic gospels and looking more at the books that were left out of the Bible. This led me to looking at Quakers as mystic christians, because I felt that God was speaking to me and it was an A-B situation where I didn't have want for a mediator.

Reading about mystics in religions led me to start reading about Sufis and there beautiful ways of looking at the world. This is how I began to get onto reading about Islam. I went and bought a Quran, after checking out a couple at the library, which was the Abdullah Yusef Ali, translation, which is as beautiful on the page as in the word. I saw that it was marked out in manazils that I could approach atleast half of one of these in a day, thus reading it in 2 months, which I did.

It was amazing to read stories I knew, but in such a new light. Also intersting was the direct manner in which things are laid out. Simple and easy to read, it was a handbook for living, I could see the social structure and historical prevailance of why something were happening. There are ofcourse parts that contain violent passages, and even though some are in regaurd to bring justice to those who have broken the pact with Muhammed(PBUH), I thought most of it seemed pretty familiar Old Testament Allah I was familiar with, except there was a more personal feeling there with that relationship. I also liked how I was responsible for acting as a good Muslim, atleast as it's laid out. Largely I liked reading the Sufi stances on Allah and how it was described in poems and writing. The feeling of letting go and living was what really spoke to me. And spoke to my sense of Self desolvement into One, Allah. I even began timing my meditations with the five daily prayers, albiet in a way I understood. It also really brought to lite substance use and how it really largely has a bad impact of society. It's nice to have drinks and whatnot, but what if there wasn't much drinking or any drinking? How much different would the society function? Just thoughts.

Well as my compartive studies led me, I began to study Muslim and Hindu relations on the India/Afghan boarder. Which ofcourse could only read to Sikhism, a dharma religion. I didn't spend alot of time there reading, and quickly after years of reading came back to examine Hinduism with more a critical eye, an embacing eye. There are many things I like about the Hindu view of God or Ulitmate existance and in reading about Sages overcoming bodily death, I found a beautiful and logical, to my beliefs, way or looking at the Cruxifiction story, thinking of Christ as a consciousness, were in we realize what we are a part of and can detach from the body, in the sense of selflessness, which is certainly what Jesus embraced. Years before that I was told by a Buddhist monk a story about a man who went to India to become a monk and the Master told the new comer, first he must understand his first religon, which really stuck me and made me mad at first. Although through the years I finally made it happen and was at peace with my connection to the larger universiality of many religions at this point. They had all taught me or helped me consider how I'm living and what for.

Buddhism is still the deepest worn path in my wonderings and have taken refuge there as a basis for living, however I have learned I have many brothers and sisters all over the world who are trying to be happy and end suffering, just as I am, each in our own way, which brings me back to the Sufi readings about letting go and being absorbed in ecstacy of love and compassion.

I see that is a bit around the bend way of telling you how I have connected with Islam, but just wanted to share how I have integrated many ways of knowing into my own and that Islam has been a major part of that for me in understanding the faith I grew up in and learning to look to a larger connection, of which sigular people speak of.

Kompressor · 07-05-2009, 01:49 PM

Just wanna say how elated I am knowing this thread exists.

**SageTree** · 07-05-2009, 09:43 PM

^ I couldn't agree more. A non-christo-centric vantage point of Jesus is just what we need for sure.

hijabihippie · 07-06-2009, 07:29 AM

One word: Amen!
Thanks to all.
I am stoked no end that this thread is here.

I10HaulR · 07-06-2009, 07:45 PM

Nice journey Sage!

Here's my opinion on Islam and Jesus(PBUH). It says in the Qu'ran that God is the Greatest of Planners, which is one of my favorite names they attribute to Him. Who doesn't love it when a plan comes together.(Shameless A-Team reference lol)

It all starts with Adam and Eve(PBUT) and their creation. God asked the angels to prostrate before them, all did but Iblees(Satan) God throws him out of heaven, but gives him respite until The Day of Judgment. Thus creating Good and Evil. The Chest game starts.

I know most know the main Characters of the Abrahamic religions so I won't go into too much detail. This is how I see it.

After Adam and Eve(PBUT) after a period of time the people loose the way.
God sends Noah(PBUH) and warns them, follow the way, or I fear a terrible scourge will fall on you. They didn't listen, here comes the water. Leaving the Non-believers and saving the believers.

Hud(PBUH) Warned his people, because they were worshiping deities and other gods, they wouldn't listen...God sends a sand storm to wipe them out(PBUH)

Lot(PBUH) Warned his people, because they were basically homosexual. He asked them to change their way even offering up his daughters, or face a scourge, they said bring it on...God destroys them with earthquakes.

There are more stories similar to these, same protocol different sins, scourges. But the point is made, Follow the Prophet, worship one God, or after your nation transgresses to a certain point, God destroys it. Even Moses(PBUH) warned the Pharaoh, he didn't listen and was swallowed up in the Red Sea.

So this is where it gets interesting. After Moses(PBUH) the people were left to follow the Torah...and after they had started to transgress, and change the word of God (Torah in it's original form) God sent Jesus(PBUH) to teach the word of God. The transgressors, knew and believed, but didn't want to conform, so they decided to do something nobody else had done...kill the prophet. So God being the All Knowing, allows this,(or made it appear as if they had indeed killed him) and lets them go on with life for an appointed time.

Now imagine you just killed a Prophet of God...they were probably scared shitless thinking surely something bad was going to happen to them...but nothing did, and two hundred years later The Bible was fabricated/rewritten to hide and lead people away from the truth.

So God being the best planner, says OK people, I'll let you spread that, but I'm going to send my message to Muhammad(PBUH) and make sure he's so strict in his way of life, and teachings, that God's word will eventually "travel" to a time where Jesus(PBUH) will read them, recognize them, and destroy the cross, and the kill the swine.

Then everyone that has ever walked the Earth will have to attest for the role they played in "The Greatest Story of All Time." If you believed and did good deeds, you get paradise, if you denied and caused mischief you get hell.

That's the way I interpret it.

**SageTree** · 07-06-2009, 08:53 PM

Thanks for sharing. This thread is making me feel like taking my Quran off the shelf and reading it again.

kamikazi89 · 07-15-2009, 08:42 AM

they love them some Mary too..do not doubt that for a minute

hijabihippie · 07-15-2009, 10:30 AM

Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) is referred to in the Qu'ran as Jesus son of Mary. Also in Qu'ran is a Surah (chapter) about her, called Surat Maryam.
If my memory serves me, a few years back, a mosque somewhere was named after Mary (peace be upon her).

kamikazi89 · 07-15-2009, 10:37 AM

Mary actually is held in higher regard then jesus..and not just amongst muslims either

**SageTree** · 07-16-2009, 06:03 AM

The alagory of a universal loving mother certain speaks to many of us who have ever had a Mom

hijabihippie · 07-16-2009, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageTree

The alagory of a universal loving mother certain speaks to many of us who have ever had a Mom

And to many of us who never had a mother.

**SageTree** · 07-16-2009, 07:21 AM

So true.

kamikazi89 · 07-17-2009, 01:43 PM

there's some things even GoD can't do

hijabihippie · 08-20-2009, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageTree

Thanks for sharing. This thread is making me feel like taking my Quran off the shelf and reading it again.

Check out Laleh Bakhtiar's translation, The Sublime Qu'ran. It's the first translation done by a woman.

hijabihippie · 08-20-2009, 07:02 AM

I didn't know where else to post this, but I wanted to wish
Ramadan Mubarak to all.

**SageTree** · 08-20-2009, 07:16 AM

Happy celebration. you'll be in my thoughts.

**SageTree** · 08-20-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hijabihippie

I didn't know where else to post this, but I wanted to wish
Ramadan Mubarak to all.

It's possible that there isn't a thread about Ramadan on Yahooka. It would be great to start one and tell about your personal reflections.

While I don't fast, contemplate the precepts and practices durning the month, and think how they apply to healthy living. Perhaps I'll eat earlier in the morning before dawn as well and see how long it takes for my hunger to set in during the day, and will observe the rise and fall of that feeling.

I pray/meditate before dawn each day as it is, so I'll incorperate a juz into that practice as well for the month.

That is my Ramadan commitment. One Juz a day.

kamikazi89 · 08-27-2009, 08:57 AM

no madonna = no jesus
Jesus: Miriam's Child, Sophia's Prophet: Critical Issues in Feminist Christology. - National Catholic Reporter | Encyclopedia.com

07-05-2009, 07:25 AM	#21 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,767 Times in 4,664 Posts	Thanks for sharing that I10HaulR. I can really relate to how you felt as a Christian growing up. I was really involved in my church growing up. I sat on boards, involved in services, was president of the youth group and led alot of Bible Studies for my peeres. All the while, however, I was never fully accepting of the Trinity and I even questioned if Jesus was ever cruxified in the first place. What I felt was important was God. Truth be told the holy spirit is the only other part I could really get into of the Trinity. I think it more as the verbness of God or the creative force the energy. When I was 16 I stopped going to church all at once and never went back to a Christian church. For some years I too sat alone in my personal time and sounds like I did what you did as well. I was however reading the Bible and doing daily lessons....while smoking a joint. One evening as I sat reading by candle light, I thought that 'I should close my eyes and sit here with my thoughts' Little did I know this was the night I entered on my new path. I started reading about meditation and Buddhist meditation is the one that made the most sense to me and felt like the lessons of Jesus embodied without all the questions of miracles and all the historical knowledge of how the Bible was kept. I think from that day forward all my religious comparative studies still held firm in the 4 noble truths and could easily see how each religion explained an 8 fold path if not to enlightenment, to be the path after acceptance of the willing of said religions God. One of the first places I explored or branched was to look at Hinduism and how that related to Buddha and the Jains as well. This was all interesting to me, but i quickly found myself reading more about the gnostic gospels and looking more at the books that were left out of the Bible. This led me to looking at Quakers as mystic christians, because I felt that God was speaking to me and it was an A-B situation where I didn't have want for a mediator. Reading about mystics in religions led me to start reading about Sufis and there beautiful ways of looking at the world. This is how I began to get onto reading about Islam. I went and bought a Quran, after checking out a couple at the library, which was the Abdullah Yusef Ali, translation, which is as beautiful on the page as in the word. I saw that it was marked out in manazils that I could approach atleast half of one of these in a day, thus reading it in 2 months, which I did. It was amazing to read stories I knew, but in such a new light. Also intersting was the direct manner in which things are laid out. Simple and easy to read, it was a handbook for living, I could see the social structure and historical prevailance of why something were happening. There are ofcourse parts that contain violent passages, and even though some are in regaurd to bring justice to those who have broken the pact with Muhammed(PBUH), I thought most of it seemed pretty familiar Old Testament Allah I was familiar with, except there was a more personal feeling there with that relationship. I also liked how I was responsible for acting as a good Muslim, atleast as it's laid out. Largely I liked reading the Sufi stances on Allah and how it was described in poems and writing. The feeling of letting go and living was what really spoke to me. And spoke to my sense of Self desolvement into One, Allah. I even began timing my meditations with the five daily prayers, albiet in a way I understood. It also really brought to lite substance use and how it really largely has a bad impact of society. It's nice to have drinks and whatnot, but what if there wasn't much drinking or any drinking? How much different would the society function? Just thoughts. Well as my compartive studies led me, I began to study Muslim and Hindu relations on the India/Afghan boarder. Which ofcourse could only read to Sikhism, a dharma religion. I didn't spend alot of time there reading, and quickly after years of reading came back to examine Hinduism with more a critical eye, an embacing eye. There are many things I like about the Hindu view of God or Ulitmate existance and in reading about Sages overcoming bodily death, I found a beautiful and logical, to my beliefs, way or looking at the Cruxifiction story, thinking of Christ as a consciousness, were in we realize what we are a part of and can detach from the body, in the sense of selflessness, which is certainly what Jesus embraced. Years before that I was told by a Buddhist monk a story about a man who went to India to become a monk and the Master told the new comer, first he must understand his first religon, which really stuck me and made me mad at first. Although through the years I finally made it happen and was at peace with my connection to the larger universiality of many religions at this point. They had all taught me or helped me consider how I'm living and what for. Buddhism is still the deepest worn path in my wonderings and have taken refuge there as a basis for living, however I have learned I have many brothers and sisters all over the world who are trying to be happy and end suffering, just as I am, each in our own way, which brings me back to the Sufi readings about letting go and being absorbed in ecstacy of love and compassion. I see that is a bit around the bend way of telling you how I have connected with Islam, but just wanted to share how I have integrated many ways of knowing into my own and that Islam has been a major part of that for me in understanding the faith I grew up in and learning to look to a larger connection, of which sigular people speak of. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

07-05-2009, 01:49 PM	#22 (permalink)
Kompressor Voice of Reason Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 8,361 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3,068 Times in 1,634 Posts	Just wanna say how elated I am knowing this thread exists. __________________ Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -H. Bergson

07-05-2009, 09:43 PM	#23 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,767 Times in 4,664 Posts	^ I couldn't agree more. A non-christo-centric vantage point of Jesus is just what we need for sure. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

07-06-2009, 08:53 PM	#26 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,767 Times in 4,664 Posts	Thanks for sharing. This thread is making me feel like taking my Quran off the shelf and reading it again. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

07-16-2009, 06:03 AM	#30 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,767 Times in 4,664 Posts	The alagory of a universal loving mother certain speaks to many of us who have ever had a Mom __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

07-06-2009, 07:29 AM	#24 (permalink)
hijabihippie YaHookan Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,481 Thanks: 1,152 Thanked 655 Times in 515 Posts	One word: Amen! Thanks to all. I am stoked no end that this thread is here.

07-06-2009, 07:45 PM	#25 (permalink)
I10HaulR YaHookan Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 289 Thanks: 112 Thanked 117 Times in 71 Posts	Nice journey Sage! Here's my opinion on Islam and Jesus(PBUH). It says in the Qu'ran that God is the Greatest of Planners, which is one of my favorite names they attribute to Him. Who doesn't love it when a plan comes together.(Shameless A-Team reference lol) It all starts with Adam and Eve(PBUT) and their creation. God asked the angels to prostrate before them, all did but Iblees(Satan) God throws him out of heaven, but gives him respite until The Day of Judgment. Thus creating Good and Evil. The Chest game starts. I know most know the main Characters of the Abrahamic religions so I won't go into too much detail. This is how I see it. After Adam and Eve(PBUT) after a period of time the people loose the way. God sends Noah(PBUH) and warns them, follow the way, or I fear a terrible scourge will fall on you. They didn't listen, here comes the water. Leaving the Non-believers and saving the believers. Hud(PBUH) Warned his people, because they were worshiping deities and other gods, they wouldn't listen...God sends a sand storm to wipe them out(PBUH) Lot(PBUH) Warned his people, because they were basically homosexual. He asked them to change their way even offering up his daughters, or face a scourge, they said bring it on...God destroys them with earthquakes. There are more stories similar to these, same protocol different sins, scourges. But the point is made, Follow the Prophet, worship one God, or after your nation transgresses to a certain point, God destroys it. Even Moses(PBUH) warned the Pharaoh, he didn't listen and was swallowed up in the Red Sea. So this is where it gets interesting. After Moses(PBUH) the people were left to follow the Torah...and after they had started to transgress, and change the word of God (Torah in it's original form) God sent Jesus(PBUH) to teach the word of God. The transgressors, knew and believed, but didn't want to conform, so they decided to do something nobody else had done...kill the prophet. So God being the All Knowing, allows this,(or made it appear as if they had indeed killed him) and lets them go on with life for an appointed time. Now imagine you just killed a Prophet of God...they were probably scared shitless thinking surely something bad was going to happen to them...but nothing did, and two hundred years later The Bible was fabricated/rewritten to hide and lead people away from the truth. So God being the best planner, says OK people, I'll let you spread that, but I'm going to send my message to Muhammad(PBUH) and make sure he's so strict in his way of life, and teachings, that God's word will eventually "travel" to a time where Jesus(PBUH) will read them, recognize them, and destroy the cross, and the kill the swine. Then everyone that has ever walked the Earth will have to attest for the role they played in "The Greatest Story of All Time." If you believed and did good deeds, you get paradise, if you denied and caused mischief you get hell. That's the way I interpret it.

07-15-2009, 10:30 AM	#28 (permalink)
hijabihippie YaHookan Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,481 Thanks: 1,152 Thanked 655 Times in 515 Posts	Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) is referred to in the Qu'ran as Jesus son of Mary. Also in Qu'ran is a Surah (chapter) about her, called Surat Maryam. If my memory serves me, a few years back, a mosque somewhere was named after Mary (peace be upon her).

07-16-2009, 07:21 AM	#32 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,767 Times in 4,664 Posts	So true. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

08-20-2009, 07:02 AM	#35 (permalink)
hijabihippie YaHookan Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,481 Thanks: 1,152 Thanked 655 Times in 515 Posts	I didn't know where else to post this, but I wanted to wish Ramadan Mubarak to all.

08-20-2009, 07:16 AM	#36 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,767 Times in 4,664 Posts	Happy celebration. you'll be in my thoughts. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

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