Question: Who has more Freedom??

**Pharm Girl** · 05-05-2009, 05:17 AM

Man or Wild Animals??

I was asked this Q by a student taking a philosophy course!

My answer is the Animals....

Cerebro · 05-05-2009, 05:53 AM

wild animals have nothing but freedom
we do too, but we choose to relenquish some of those freedoms
wild animals probably make similar choices

Lloydy · 05-05-2009, 06:28 AM

depends on the animal

Bodhisattva · 05-05-2009, 06:52 AM

does man on average have more freedom than the tiger or the bird? YES

man has the most freedom. regardless of circumstance, with his mind, and its many restrictions, inhibitions, and the many slavish inclinations

man has the freedom TO WILL in a degree and capacity that no animal can come close too

man is also always the most courageous animal, with the heavy load and the awkward footing

freedom demands courage

free to do as one wants free to do as another wants, these our freedoms, these may not be real..

but free to be so inclined, that man alone has

a dancing star, that is freedom, only the chaos of man has been that

the butterfly might trump all that, i cant be sure

mothernature · 05-05-2009, 06:57 AM

I thought this would be an easy one, but the more I thought about it, the more complex it became.

My gut reaction was also to say the wild animals.

But, what does freedom really mean?

Free to do what is our nature to do? What we want to do? To make our own choices?

If a wild deer were to forage for food in a human's garden, the human is free to shoot and eat the deer. If a human were to forage food from their neighbor's garden, there might be a small fine.

Just as humans are subject to man's law, so are alot of wild animals. If humans pollute the water, the animals would be forced to move or die, thus removing their freedom to live where they want.

The same with us humans. If someone tells us what we can or cannot do, we are free to move to a place where there are no other people, to live or die by nature's laws.

And then I got to thinking about domesticated animals. What about them? A pet cat, with a door to the outside, might be considered the most free of all.

So yeah, I'm giving a firm, strong, decisive vote for, 'not sure'.

zerodown · 05-05-2009, 08:02 AM

Humans are more free, wild animals are only as free as we allow them to be. We hunt them, destroy their habitats, capture them for all kinds of reasons. Wild animals are only free within the domain(forests, deserts, etc...) that we haven't destroyed yet, their freedom depends on our judgment.

Its a complicated question because we do the same thing to ourselves, we take freedoms from ourselves.

The Rev · 05-05-2009, 04:43 PM

A human is only free until his life becomes about something besides living it, such as his/her job. Most of us are slaves to our jobs, because of our possessions, debts, and the power structure behind our money.

The Rev

msicidron · 05-05-2009, 07:54 PM

certainly wild animals are far freer than your average human.

not that humans dont have the same potential for freedom

**SageTree** · 05-05-2009, 08:26 PM

I feel animals are bound to freedom in a sense, which really doesn't make it as much of a choice as a programme. They are geared to survive and even what seems like play is learning something to living better. To me this seems like suffering ulitmatly in the end. Life is scarey when you are just trying to stay alive as a sole goal, which I suppose could be said for the person who is chained to a desk, 'fighting for 'survival' in the material means of sucess.

We can choose to cut most chains and work hard on over coming the rest, free for this cycle and living mindfully of our 'Self'. Animals are no doubt equal to me in life form, however I feel that human intellect has infinate chances to free us as much as it is allow to enslave us. Choosing what 'survival' means on this plane.

Animals seem to have intellegence, but humans seem to have more ability to cast ourselves or what we believe to be into a future.

Only my opinion, I don't study animal consciousness professionally, nor humans for that matter.

I just want to through it out there that my level of respect for animals has lead to my following a path of non-violence to them, and becoming vegetarian. Which is bring the level of violence to sentient beings down to a low level, which is right for me.

In kind,
SageTree

NorcalCarl · 05-06-2009, 01:56 AM

We are both free. Animals were my first thought but as I thought about it more thats because they take risks with out realizing it.
For instance a lion in africa lives in a game park where it is realatively safe from poachers and other man made dangers. The lion is free to leave the park and will do so.
A human in a similar situation won't leave a safe area. I could go out right now and go to Hunters point, a bad part of the city. I have the freedom to do so but I will not do it. Our consciousness limits our freedoms.

Center · 05-06-2009, 03:41 AM

Quote:

certainly wild animals are far freer than your average human.

not that humans dont have the same potential for freedom

Is not that potential for being free the same as having the option of being more free. If that is the case then the greater freedom is alloted to ourselves.

Does a desire for freedom naturally indicate a lack of that option? Or does it simply show a lack of intellect to find it? Is the desire for freedom something that every human has? I think not. I look to Nietzchie to show the callous touch of the master ranks to the slaves. One human who is of the highest of ranks--the noble among the unnoble--has no desire for freedom because he doesn't know of that idea. That man is truely free. Man that is, not animal, therefor freedom as a better than is alloted to humanity and it's unfortunate majority who is not free....in which case are free to choose death! The nobelest of choices in the eye of a wise man. For our world is made of deciet and image. YET! wisdom is generally found is those who have risen into the highest ranks!

Cerebro · 05-06-2009, 03:45 AM

but the lion is the same, so are dogs, birds etc.
they stay out of other peoples territory
they dont go to badass point either, coz that's where the badass's are
they make just as many conscious thoughts as we do
they do more than just survive, they try to enjoy themselves along the way
our environment is not as dangerous, so our 'instinct' to survive is not highly active, this allows our thought to wander
animals (humans, or any other) will be driven towards survival in dangerous environments

SweetSativa · 05-06-2009, 05:32 AM

I voted animals.

I guess the first animal that came to mind was the Eagle. The Eagle seems to represent freedom (plus it's against the law to shoot one

).

I guess a species of animal is more likely to become extinct (usually at the hand of man). I think about cattle. They are confined to a pen and will eventually be killed and eaten (most times). However, they don't seem to mind (cattle here have large pastures) because there's plenty to eat and drink. They have no idea that they will be eaten (I assume). So, they're somewhat free. They have just as much idea as to their confinement as most humans have of theirs

Kishar · 05-06-2009, 07:39 AM

i voted man. except in areas where mankind has not infringed on their habitat.

we are animals too don't forget. we just think were smarter so we forget that fact.

**SageTree** · 05-06-2009, 11:27 AM

http://www.yahooka.com/forum/spiritu...uman-life.html

dubtrice · 05-06-2009, 06:35 PM

define freedom..

I chose unsure, but after a day of thinking Id say man has more freedom..

since we can do anything any other animal can do, plus quite a few things they cant do - if man doesnt have more, then its equal freedom

SweetSativa · 05-07-2009, 05:25 AM

You know, I'm glad that I have the ability to think and reason and create. But mornings like this when I've been up all night trying to make dead lines and still am not finished and feel guilty about spending 10 minutes searching the web; I can't help but fantasize about the life of my dog who just lays around and plays around all day in the sun.

**Pharm Girl** · 05-07-2009, 05:35 AM

I've been up all night.......sweating 'n freezing. The dog is gonna be tired today, he can't sleep when someone is moaning and groaning!

Back to the question: The student just told me she had to develop the question based upon 2 french philosophers ideology ( I have one of their names and when I find it, I'll throw it up) in 1000 words.

I was promised a peek after she gets her results...

**Pharm Girl** · 05-07-2009, 06:22 AM

The philosopher is Friedrich Nietzsche........... German not French.

**SageTree** · 05-07-2009, 08:13 AM

Where do everyone's beliefs spawn from on this matter? Where did you opinion come from?

View Poll Results: Who has more Freedom, Man or Animals?
Man	9	32.14%
Animals	12	42.86%
Unsure...	7	25.00%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

05-05-2009, 05:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
Pharm Girl Looking for a Bone! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,203 Blog Entries: 13 Thanks: 2,553 Thanked 1,009 Times in 783 Posts	Question: Who has more Freedom?? Man or Wild Animals?? I was asked this Q by a student taking a philosophy course! My answer is the Animals.... __________________ .....The Time has Come to 'Walk the Talk'.....~ ......A message for ALL from the Deer Tribe...~ It is a great journey — but you must do the walking and have the willingness to change and make the leap into the next level of human evolution. Become an inquisitive free thinking individual that takes responsibility for your life and the spiritual accountability to live life to the fullest. *Fuck the Monkeys*

05-05-2009, 06:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
Lloydy KTF Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: England Posts: 11,692 Thanks: 469 Thanked 2,191 Times in 1,004 Posts	depends on the animal __________________ Keep the red flag flying high

05-05-2009, 06:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
Bodhisattva Professed Monster Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Spectator's Malevolent Neutrality Posts: 328 Thanks: 5 Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts	does man on average have more freedom than the tiger or the bird? YES man has the most freedom. regardless of circumstance, with his mind, and its many restrictions, inhibitions, and the many slavish inclinations man has the freedom TO WILL in a degree and capacity that no animal can come close too man is also always the most courageous animal, with the heavy load and the awkward footing freedom demands courage free to do as one wants free to do as another wants, these our freedoms, these may not be real.. but free to be so inclined, that man alone has a dancing star, that is freedom, only the chaos of man has been that the butterfly might trump all that, i cant be sure __________________

05-05-2009, 04:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
The Rev Clear Light Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 17,672 Thanks: 4,716 Thanked 5,057 Times in 2,708 Posts	A human is only free until his life becomes about something besides living it, such as his/her job. Most of us are slaves to our jobs, because of our possessions, debts, and the power structure behind our money. The Rev __________________ "You're seriously flying close to the fag-sun, icarus." -Flamingnun

05-05-2009, 06:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
mothernature ancientbongmaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 895 Thanked 615 Times in 394 Posts	I thought this would be an easy one, but the more I thought about it, the more complex it became. My gut reaction was also to say the wild animals. But, what does freedom really mean? Free to do what is our nature to do? What we want to do? To make our own choices? If a wild deer were to forage for food in a human's garden, the human is free to shoot and eat the deer. If a human were to forage food from their neighbor's garden, there might be a small fine. Just as humans are subject to man's law, so are alot of wild animals. If humans pollute the water, the animals would be forced to move or die, thus removing their freedom to live where they want. The same with us humans. If someone tells us what we can or cannot do, we are free to move to a place where there are no other people, to live or die by nature's laws. And then I got to thinking about domesticated animals. What about them? A pet cat, with a door to the outside, might be considered the most free of all. So yeah, I'm giving a firm, strong, decisive vote for, 'not sure'.

05-05-2009, 08:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
zerodown Mafutero Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: PR Posts: 784 Thanks: 38 Thanked 168 Times in 131 Posts	Humans are more free, wild animals are only as free as we allow them to be. We hunt them, destroy their habitats, capture them for all kinds of reasons. Wild animals are only free within the domain(forests, deserts, etc...) that we haven't destroyed yet, their freedom depends on our judgment. Its a complicated question because we do the same thing to ourselves, we take freedoms from ourselves.

05-05-2009, 07:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
msicidron vibing Join Date: May 2007 Location: North America Posts: 959 Thanks: 228 Thanked 153 Times in 120 Posts	certainly wild animals are far freer than your average human. not that humans dont have the same potential for freedom __________________ \|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|

05-05-2009, 08:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 22,612 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 11,486 Thanked 5,709 Times in 4,024 Posts	I feel animals are bound to freedom in a sense, which really doesn't make it as much of a choice as a programme. They are geared to survive and even what seems like play is learning something to living better. To me this seems like suffering ulitmatly in the end. Life is scarey when you are just trying to stay alive as a sole goal, which I suppose could be said for the person who is chained to a desk, 'fighting for 'survival' in the material means of sucess. We can choose to cut most chains and work hard on over coming the rest, free for this cycle and living mindfully of our 'Self'. Animals are no doubt equal to me in life form, however I feel that human intellect has infinate chances to free us as much as it is allow to enslave us. Choosing what 'survival' means on this plane. Animals seem to have intellegence, but humans seem to have more ability to cast ourselves or what we believe to be into a future. Only my opinion, I don't study animal consciousness professionally, nor humans for that matter. I just want to through it out there that my level of respect for animals has lead to my following a path of non-violence to them, and becoming vegetarian. Which is bring the level of violence to sentient beings down to a low level, which is right for me. In kind, SageTree __________________ YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance. "We're not here to judge what's good from bad, But to do the things that are right." Last edited by SageTree; 05-06-2009 at 07:49 AM.

05-06-2009, 01:56 AM	#10 (permalink)
NorcalCarl JAH Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SF! Posts: 626 Thanks: 61 Thanked 115 Times in 85 Posts	We are both free. Animals were my first thought but as I thought about it more thats because they take risks with out realizing it. For instance a lion in africa lives in a game park where it is realatively safe from poachers and other man made dangers. The lion is free to leave the park and will do so. A human in a similar situation won't leave a safe area. I could go out right now and go to Hunters point, a bad part of the city. I have the freedom to do so but I will not do it. Our consciousness limits our freedoms. __________________ There is no charge for awesomeness

05-06-2009, 05:32 AM	#13 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	I voted animals. I guess the first animal that came to mind was the Eagle. The Eagle seems to represent freedom (plus it's against the law to shoot one ). I guess a species of animal is more likely to become extinct (usually at the hand of man). I think about cattle. They are confined to a pen and will eventually be killed and eaten (most times). However, they don't seem to mind (cattle here have large pastures) because there's plenty to eat and drink. They have no idea that they will be eaten (I assume). So, they're somewhat free. They have just as much idea as to their confinement as most humans have of theirs __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

05-06-2009, 07:39 AM	#14 (permalink)
Kishar loading user title.. Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: subcutaneous layer Posts: 2,201 Thanks: 117 Thanked 197 Times in 137 Posts	i voted man. except in areas where mankind has not infringed on their habitat. we are animals too don't forget. we just think were smarter so we forget that fact. __________________ So, if a stranger walked up to you and poured pebble like seeds into your hand and then said, plant them and your harvest can be made into rope cloth or paper, it could help the sick or intoxicate. What would you say? Would you keep the seeds or chuck them away? RollREDRoll

05-06-2009, 11:27 AM	#15 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 22,612 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 11,486 Thanked 5,709 Times in 4,024 Posts	http://www.yahooka.com/forum/spiritu...uman-life.html __________________ YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance. "We're not here to judge what's good from bad, But to do the things that are right."

05-06-2009, 06:35 PM	#16 (permalink)
dubtrice Old School Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 417 Thanks: 83 Thanked 55 Times in 41 Posts	define freedom.. I chose unsure, but after a day of thinking Id say man has more freedom.. since we can do anything any other animal can do, plus quite a few things they cant do - if man doesnt have more, then its equal freedom

05-07-2009, 05:25 AM	#17 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	You know, I'm glad that I have the ability to think and reason and create. But mornings like this when I've been up all night trying to make dead lines and still am not finished and feel guilty about spending 10 minutes searching the web; I can't help but fantasize about the life of my dog who just lays around and plays around all day in the sun. __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

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05-07-2009, 05:35 AM	#18 (permalink)
Pharm Girl Looking for a Bone! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,203 Blog Entries: 13 Thanks: 2,553 Thanked 1,009 Times in 783 Posts	I've been up all night.......sweating 'n freezing. The dog is gonna be tired today, he can't sleep when someone is moaning and groaning! Back to the question: The student just told me she had to develop the question based upon 2 french philosophers ideology ( I have one of their names and when I find it, I'll throw it up) in 1000 words. I was promised a peek after she gets her results... __________________ .....The Time has Come to 'Walk the Talk'.....~ ......A message for ALL from the Deer Tribe...~ It is a great journey — but you must do the walking and have the willingness to change and make the leap into the next level of human evolution. Become an inquisitive free thinking individual that takes responsibility for your life and the spiritual accountability to live life to the fullest. *Fuck the Monkeys*

05-07-2009, 06:22 AM	#19 (permalink)
Pharm Girl Looking for a Bone! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,203 Blog Entries: 13 Thanks: 2,553 Thanked 1,009 Times in 783 Posts	The philosopher is Friedrich Nietzsche........... German not French.

05-07-2009, 08:13 AM	#20 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 22,612 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 11,486 Thanked 5,709 Times in 4,024 Posts	Where do everyone's beliefs spawn from on this matter? Where did you opinion come from? __________________ YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance. "We're not here to judge what's good from bad, But to do the things that are right."