Crazy stuff about the 'Hare Krishnas'! - Page 3

verklingen · 06-12-2009, 12:01 PM

yeah, our behaviors have no bearing on our quality of life whatsoever! no responsibility to worry about, sounds nice

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 12:07 PM

not just ours: many many others

....having said all that not all human misery is a result of bad karma

starving babies for instance
+ i got the picture to drive the point home, if need be

verklingen · 06-12-2009, 12:25 PM

even if other people play a part in determining our quality of life, it removes nothing from the part we play. are you saying we can't play it in such a way as to create an outcome we favor? too fatalistic for my taste

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 12:36 PM

i'm refering very specificly to starving babies...

verklingen · 06-12-2009, 02:02 PM

well starving babies are a strong impetus for compassion, as is all suffering. things like starving babies highlight the need for change in our collective behavior: something which cannot be forced. it's a sign of the imbalance we are pressing upon ourselves, allowing us to decide whether to keep it up or change our behavior in order to do something about it. so yeah, starving babies could definitely choose to take on such an illuminating responsibility, because without them and the expression of concepts like them we'd never find a reason to choose differently. that's free will for ya. imo at least.

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 02:15 PM

i don't think starving babies have much of a choice, so while attitude may be everything it's not the only thing

Grieves · 06-12-2009, 02:20 PM

it's natural selection, age shouldn't play a factor in compassion, inability to survive is not a global epidemic, it is a result of not being equipped for that existence...

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 02:22 PM

or having the means of subsistence commodified and exported

verklingen · 06-12-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamikazi89

i don't think starving babies have much of a choice, so while attitude may be everything it's not the only thing

well, i think they do!

but then again, i believe our existence extends beyond this life. you may not, i don't know. but i honestly believe starving babies come into life knowing full well what may befall them, and i think they go into it knowing they may serve as an indicator that points the way toward a better world (i.e. a world without starving babies, we wouldn't know a lack of starving babies is good unless we learn what trouble an abundance of them is). it's just a belief of mine though.

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 02:31 PM

i didn't say they didn't, only that the choices/effects are limited..(extremely) based on material conditions

Grieves · 06-12-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamikazi89

or having the means of subsistence commodified and exported

That is just a very small aspect, look within the "tribes, groups, whatever" and you will see widespread survival as a counter to the much more emotional and tragic "pain and suffering" plight that tends to get all the attention...

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 02:40 PM

i don't disagree Greives i.e. tribes and the like. just don't sell material resources short..my main point about the starving babies is vulnerabilities, they can't just wish themselves fed

also the belief that people ultimately get what they deserve is troublesome as a universal proposition

Grieves · 06-12-2009, 02:48 PM

Very true, you are right that no existence is self-reliant, especially within the first few years of life...But in times of great need, sacrifices for the greater good need to be made and without proper doctors or education, starving the inefficient, uncared-for youth is a byproduct of the stronger elders(teens) eating to support the whole...Some need to suffer for the survival of most..

verklingen · 06-12-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamikazi89

i didn't say they didn't, only that the choices/effects are limited..(extremely) based on material conditions

what does that matter if they chose their material conditions? what's a short life as a starving baby if might be the only way to temper a society which makes choices that lead to abundance? if that's not the case it must be that whatever force guides our universe gets some sick gratification from needless suffering, and i'll have none of that!

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 03:21 PM

it's not necessary..although population control wouldn't hurt

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verklingen

what does that matter if they chose their material conditions?

my whole point is they can't, especially primate babies

Grieves · 06-12-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamikazi89

it's not necessary..although population control wouldn't hurt

and starving babies are not a form of that?

verklingen · 06-12-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamikazi89

my whole point is they can't, especially primate babies

you mean you believe they can't

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 03:25 PM

sometimes it's just a matter of greed..all the time? probably not..superstition plays a role too(lack of education) which you've correctly pointed out..

kamikazi89 · 06-12-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verklingen

you mean you believe they can't

i believe babies are limited,yes. based on evidence and documentation, seems like common sense to me

06-12-2009, 12:01 PM	#41 (permalink)
verklingen Radical Dreamer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: texas Posts: 8,031 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,470 Times in 940 Posts	yeah, our behaviors have no bearing on our quality of life whatsoever! no responsibility to worry about, sounds nice __________________ “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” rip matt

06-12-2009, 12:25 PM	#43 (permalink)
verklingen Radical Dreamer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: texas Posts: 8,031 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,470 Times in 940 Posts	even if other people play a part in determining our quality of life, it removes nothing from the part we play. are you saying we can't play it in such a way as to create an outcome we favor? too fatalistic for my taste __________________ “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” rip matt

06-12-2009, 02:02 PM	#45 (permalink)
verklingen Radical Dreamer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: texas Posts: 8,031 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,470 Times in 940 Posts	well starving babies are a strong impetus for compassion, as is all suffering. things like starving babies highlight the need for change in our collective behavior: something which cannot be forced. it's a sign of the imbalance we are pressing upon ourselves, allowing us to decide whether to keep it up or change our behavior in order to do something about it. so yeah, starving babies could definitely choose to take on such an illuminating responsibility, because without them and the expression of concepts like them we'd never find a reason to choose differently. that's free will for ya. imo at least. __________________ “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” rip matt

06-12-2009, 02:20 PM	#47 (permalink)
Grieves Biblioburro... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Terra Sancta Posts: 11,588 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,903 Thanked 2,559 Times in 1,424 Posts	it's natural selection, age shouldn't play a factor in compassion, inability to survive is not a global epidemic, it is a result of not being equipped for that existence... __________________ "And no matter what they said dollar is not your friend and it's the feelings that are hard to know are the feelings that all come slow No matter what they said dollar is not your friend and these feelings that so hard to know are the feelings that wont let go No don't let go, till you find a home World Unite and I'll love you forever"

06-12-2009, 02:48 PM	#53 (permalink)
Grieves Biblioburro... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Terra Sancta Posts: 11,588 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,903 Thanked 2,559 Times in 1,424 Posts	Very true, you are right that no existence is self-reliant, especially within the first few years of life...But in times of great need, sacrifices for the greater good need to be made and without proper doctors or education, starving the inefficient, uncared-for youth is a byproduct of the stronger elders(teens) eating to support the whole...Some need to suffer for the survival of most.. __________________ "And no matter what they said dollar is not your friend and it's the feelings that are hard to know are the feelings that all come slow No matter what they said dollar is not your friend and these feelings that so hard to know are the feelings that wont let go No don't let go, till you find a home World Unite and I'll love you forever"

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